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Archive through September 14, 2009
- Thread starter dross
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Scott S.-
Are you SURE the V/R is functioning properly? If one of the contacts is stuck shut (can't remember which one...probably the larger of the two coils) it will crank.
Are you SURE the V/R is functioning properly? If one of the contacts is stuck shut (can't remember which one...probably the larger of the two coils) it will crank.
Scott Stanton, I went back and reread your post. I have a question. You said "I have no power going to the ignition coil."
Is this because you disconnected it? Which is the way I read it. Or is it just not there? I'm not sure I can help. But will think on it if the current/voltage just isn't there. Meaning you did not disconnect anything to try and isolate the problem.
When you turn on the ignition switch it should supply current to the coil. And when you turn it to start it will supply current to the solenoid to turn over the S/G. (basically). Maybe your ignition switch got corroded while it sat. Right now a multi-meter is your best friend.
Is this because you disconnected it? Which is the way I read it. Or is it just not there? I'm not sure I can help. But will think on it if the current/voltage just isn't there. Meaning you did not disconnect anything to try and isolate the problem.
When you turn on the ignition switch it should supply current to the coil. And when you turn it to start it will supply current to the solenoid to turn over the S/G. (basically). Maybe your ignition switch got corroded while it sat. Right now a multi-meter is your best friend.
Mornin' Fellas,
I'm sure everyone is sick & tired of my whining about my PTO clutch install issues.
Well, I managed to get secured and it seems to be working fine again.
THANKS to everyone for either providing help and/or advice or simply for your patience with me struggling through it.
Moving on now,,, Wishing eveyone a GREAT Day!
Ryan Wilke
I'm sure everyone is sick & tired of my whining about my PTO clutch install issues.
Well, I managed to get secured and it seems to be working fine again.
THANKS to everyone for either providing help and/or advice or simply for your patience with me struggling through it.
Moving on now,,, Wishing eveyone a GREAT Day!
Ryan Wilke
Richard P. Im sorry! I have not disconnected the coil. I have to find a multi meter. Power to the coil just not getting there.
Matt, I will double check the V/R but will make no promises that I'm all that smart when it comes to them!
I had problems with the 106 when I changed out the wire harness, not this bad though. It turned out to be the v/r. Perhaps I'm overthinking this which I tend to do! I had disconnected the key switch and diconected the safety switch, but will try up at the v/r. I will let you know what happens later, right now I'm going to go look at a 123!
Matt, I will double check the V/R but will make no promises that I'm all that smart when it comes to them!
I had problems with the 106 when I changed out the wire harness, not this bad though. It turned out to be the v/r. Perhaps I'm overthinking this which I tend to do! I had disconnected the key switch and diconected the safety switch, but will try up at the v/r. I will let you know what happens later, right now I'm going to go look at a 123!
RYAN - With the age the tires on these old CC's are getting weather checking is common, especially if a tractor was left outside with flat tires for years. I do ALL my own L&G tractor tire work so My cost is less than most but YES, if the tire has good tread and the hole isn;t big I'd install a boot, a MUCH bigger boot than the hole is now, then put a tube in. Problem with a small boot is the tire casing will continue to deteriorate and the hole will get bigger.
ALSO, LOCK-TIGHT is great for LOTS of things but those six set screws on the PTO clutch is NOT one of them, Like Kraig said, use anti-sieze. The second set screw locks the first one in very securely, the problem isn't "Keeping them IN, but getting them OUT!" Also I've never made a big deal out of tightening the lock collar one way or the other, get the set screws tight and it stays put.
RICHARD C. - I appreciate why IHC had to go to elec. PTO clutches, for the ability to shut the mower off when you leave the seat, shift into reverse, etc. but it's REALLY hard to beat the mechanical PTO clutch for reliability and simplicity. Too bad IHC couldn't have still used the mech. clutch on the Q/L tractors but I guess with the engine wobbling around on those rubber bushings they couldn't.
BRAD M - IH tractor radios were available from about the mid-1960's until about the mid to late 1970's when they became available in tractor cabs. We never actually had an IHC radio but every tractor DAD had that spent any time in the field had a radio, NOTHING like doing fieldwork with WLS from Chicago BLARING on the radio. There were many other popular brands besides the IH radios, which were actually made by some outside supplier. AUTOMATIC was one of the first radios, BIG square box about a foot square, just AM, but had to be able to work on 6V & 12V and pos & neg ground equipment. I got a TENNA for my birthday in about 1968 that's still on my Super H, but the original radio "died" and I put all new SONY guts in it, now it's AM/FM/Cassette with two co-axial speakers. My local Case/IH/NH dealer still has a new radio on the end of the parts shelves next to the parts counter, I'm not sure what brand it actually is.
ALSO, LOCK-TIGHT is great for LOTS of things but those six set screws on the PTO clutch is NOT one of them, Like Kraig said, use anti-sieze. The second set screw locks the first one in very securely, the problem isn't "Keeping them IN, but getting them OUT!" Also I've never made a big deal out of tightening the lock collar one way or the other, get the set screws tight and it stays put.
RICHARD C. - I appreciate why IHC had to go to elec. PTO clutches, for the ability to shut the mower off when you leave the seat, shift into reverse, etc. but it's REALLY hard to beat the mechanical PTO clutch for reliability and simplicity. Too bad IHC couldn't have still used the mech. clutch on the Q/L tractors but I guess with the engine wobbling around on those rubber bushings they couldn't.
BRAD M - IH tractor radios were available from about the mid-1960's until about the mid to late 1970's when they became available in tractor cabs. We never actually had an IHC radio but every tractor DAD had that spent any time in the field had a radio, NOTHING like doing fieldwork with WLS from Chicago BLARING on the radio. There were many other popular brands besides the IH radios, which were actually made by some outside supplier. AUTOMATIC was one of the first radios, BIG square box about a foot square, just AM, but had to be able to work on 6V & 12V and pos & neg ground equipment. I got a TENNA for my birthday in about 1968 that's still on my Super H, but the original radio "died" and I put all new SONY guts in it, now it's AM/FM/Cassette with two co-axial speakers. My local Case/IH/NH dealer still has a new radio on the end of the parts shelves next to the parts counter, I'm not sure what brand it actually is.
rchristensen
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- Richard Christensen
Dennis F. I would have to disagree with you on the mechanical PTO being more simple and reliable.
I would guess there are more electrical PTO's out there than Mechanical ones and if you look back through the archives on this forum alone you will see page after page about mechanical PTO problems, and very few about the electrical PTO's.
Any one can remove or install a electrical PTO with a set of wrenches and a feeler gauge.
The mechanical PTO requires a FAQ on just how to get the six screws out of the PTO, (with great skill and luck you may not need to drill them out), then you need help on the best way to break the PTO free from the shaft. (do you use a puller or a log chain)
Then you need to figure out which configuration of mechanical PTO you have and which rebuild kit you need.
Then you need a special tool to adjust the mechanical PTO.
Then comes the questions, where do you mount the bearing and how do you lock the collar???
Then comes the friction disc spring, which way should it go or do I throw it away.
Then the wear button problems.
Simpler and more reliable, I don't think so.....
I would guess there are more electrical PTO's out there than Mechanical ones and if you look back through the archives on this forum alone you will see page after page about mechanical PTO problems, and very few about the electrical PTO's.
Any one can remove or install a electrical PTO with a set of wrenches and a feeler gauge.
The mechanical PTO requires a FAQ on just how to get the six screws out of the PTO, (with great skill and luck you may not need to drill them out), then you need help on the best way to break the PTO free from the shaft. (do you use a puller or a log chain)
Then you need to figure out which configuration of mechanical PTO you have and which rebuild kit you need.
Then you need a special tool to adjust the mechanical PTO.
Then comes the questions, where do you mount the bearing and how do you lock the collar???
Then comes the friction disc spring, which way should it go or do I throw it away.
Then the wear button problems.
Simpler and more reliable, I don't think so.....
Richard C.,
Even though I had some issues (!) with my mechanical PTO clutch over the past few days, I'd still rather have it than an electrical PTO clutch.
Yep, you're correct. The electric clutches either work or they don't. No adjustments, no tuning, no anything.
Just remove it and replace it... oh, I almost forgot - and pay the nearly $300 for the new electric clutch too!
If we as vintage Cub owners didn't want to tinker on them, then we'd just get rid of them and buy a "disposable" MTD every 5 years.
But, IMHO, adjusting & rebuilding the mechanical PTO clutch is just part of it all in owning and continuing to run these ol' Cubs.
We all have choices & you are entitled to your choice as well. It's all good!
Ryan Wilke
Even though I had some issues (!) with my mechanical PTO clutch over the past few days, I'd still rather have it than an electrical PTO clutch.
Yep, you're correct. The electric clutches either work or they don't. No adjustments, no tuning, no anything.
Just remove it and replace it... oh, I almost forgot - and pay the nearly $300 for the new electric clutch too!
If we as vintage Cub owners didn't want to tinker on them, then we'd just get rid of them and buy a "disposable" MTD every 5 years.
But, IMHO, adjusting & rebuilding the mechanical PTO clutch is just part of it all in owning and continuing to run these ol' Cubs.
We all have choices & you are entitled to your choice as well. It's all good!
Ryan Wilke
Ryan - I agree with you. Rebuilding a mechanical clutch, which will last years at a time, is a way to keep up the "old school" these old cubs all have. The mech. clutch is like anything else on an old tractor; you need to stay on top of adjustments while using these machines. The price difference you mentioned is another big reason. I'd rather spend about $50 and two hours than $300 and ten minutes. I guess I've dealt with about 15 mech. clutches through the years and they haven't been that hard to work with or even get off of the engine. It just takes a little time and head scratching. I pulled one off one of my 128s the other day and the po used the pointed set screw to lock the smaller set screw. Luckily all six were still there just in the wrong order. Both nuts had come off of one of the thrust lever bolts and both of them were still there floating in the basket behind the pto. I feel these ptos are pretty bullet proof if you keep them adjusted and just "eyeball" them every once in a while.
Just my thoughts on the matter....
Just my thoughts on the matter....
Dennis, yep
Ryan, Agreed
Richard, I have one 1250 that doesnt do anything but provide parts for the other 1250, that got started because the electric clutch went south and I couldn't see spending 8 times what I had in the tractor to fix it. Well, that and some other PO issues that just makes you shake your head and wonder.
Paul, Yes, thats what the manual says.
Ryan, Agreed
Richard, I have one 1250 that doesnt do anything but provide parts for the other 1250, that got started because the electric clutch went south and I couldn't see spending 8 times what I had in the tractor to fix it. Well, that and some other PO issues that just makes you shake your head and wonder.
Paul, Yes, thats what the manual says.
kide
Well-known member
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- Aug 27, 2006
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- displayname
- Gerry Ide
I like the softer engagement of the mechanical PTO. The Ogura clutch on my Scag makes me think of how I used to side step the clutch on my '55 Chevy to smoke the tires..(can't figure out why I went through so many tranny's and diffs on that car..)
rchristensen
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- Richard Christensen
Ryan If you have priced a mechanical PTO lately it is about $300 and probably more by the time you buy the bearing and the wear button.
I know you can buy rebuild kits and normally don't replace the complete PTO, but then you can buy parts for the electrical PTO too.
I have three Cubs with mechanical PTO's and about 10 older Cubs with electrical PTO's along with some off color older tractors with electrical PTO's and find the electrical PTO's are almost bullet proof. I have never lost an electrical PTO and having followed several Forums I find the electrical PTO failures are seldom. Normally if one is having problems a simple air gap adjustment will correct it.
Both mechanical and electrical PTO's perform the same function, I just prefer the electrical ones because they are easy to install, adjust, very reliable, and have a good brake system.
I know the later mechanical PTO's also have a brake system and I have converted all of my 1XX cubs to the newer version brake.
I realize if you own a 1XX model cub you are going to have to use the mechanical PTO unless you do some major modification.
I think my newest Cub is a 1981, no MTD's in this household.
I know you can buy rebuild kits and normally don't replace the complete PTO, but then you can buy parts for the electrical PTO too.
I have three Cubs with mechanical PTO's and about 10 older Cubs with electrical PTO's along with some off color older tractors with electrical PTO's and find the electrical PTO's are almost bullet proof. I have never lost an electrical PTO and having followed several Forums I find the electrical PTO failures are seldom. Normally if one is having problems a simple air gap adjustment will correct it.
Both mechanical and electrical PTO's perform the same function, I just prefer the electrical ones because they are easy to install, adjust, very reliable, and have a good brake system.
I know the later mechanical PTO's also have a brake system and I have converted all of my 1XX cubs to the newer version brake.
I realize if you own a 1XX model cub you are going to have to use the mechanical PTO unless you do some major modification.
I think my newest Cub is a 1981, no MTD's in this household.
RICHARD - I knew when I typed that statement You'd shoot it all to pieces. I think most of the problems new people have with the mech. PTO clutch is because they don't have service or Op's manuals, don't read instructions, and over-estimate how complicated it is. It's SIMPLE.
ALL the parts & special setting tool come in the rebuild kit. A big phillips screw driver and a couple 7/16" combination wrenches are all that's needed to rebuild it. And if the last person that installed it used anti-sieze on the set screws they come off the pilot bearing in less than five minutes. And as long as the thrust botton in the clutch is in decent shape I get about 6-8 yrs from a fiber wear button. Most of them break when I remove/install a belt on the pulley.
I'm pretty sure the last time I rebuilt the mech. clutch on my 72 was something like 20 yrs ago. And with all the mowing, snow blowing, and "Other Jobs" I've made attachments that run off the PTO to do I think that's Mighty darn durable.
I've suffered thru all the posts here pertaining to Your other issues with the mech. PTO but I'll keep my thoughts to myself.
I was raised around ALL TYPES of PTO powered ag equipment and NONE of it was ever started up with a JERK. Doesn't matter if it was being run with the '39 H, '54 Super H, LPTO on the Super M-TA, 450, or the jd 4010. Almost ALL ag equipment had either slip clutches or shear bolt protection on the PTO drive also, anything started with a jolt it would shear those bolts or slip the clutch in a heart beat.
I do have the elec. frt & rear PTO on the 982. I turn the rear PTO on once a year in spite of the fact I don't have anything to run off it. The frt PTO normally only gets engaged ONCE when I mow with the 982, and that's been about an average of 5-6 times a year since I got it 9 yrs ago. Always engaged at just above idle speed, and it CHIRPS the belt every time, I'm sure the belt tighteners on the mule drive & 50C deck go crazy when that happens too.
Far as whether there's more mech. PTO's on CC's or elec. PTO's, I thought I totalled up the serial numbers and there should be about 50% more mech. clutches than elec., been YEARS ago, My "CRS" may be acting up. ANYHOW, I know My Buddy's replaced the elec. clutch on his jd 317 at least THREE times since He got it new. That gets real expensive.
ALL the parts & special setting tool come in the rebuild kit. A big phillips screw driver and a couple 7/16" combination wrenches are all that's needed to rebuild it. And if the last person that installed it used anti-sieze on the set screws they come off the pilot bearing in less than five minutes. And as long as the thrust botton in the clutch is in decent shape I get about 6-8 yrs from a fiber wear button. Most of them break when I remove/install a belt on the pulley.
I'm pretty sure the last time I rebuilt the mech. clutch on my 72 was something like 20 yrs ago. And with all the mowing, snow blowing, and "Other Jobs" I've made attachments that run off the PTO to do I think that's Mighty darn durable.
I've suffered thru all the posts here pertaining to Your other issues with the mech. PTO but I'll keep my thoughts to myself.
I was raised around ALL TYPES of PTO powered ag equipment and NONE of it was ever started up with a JERK. Doesn't matter if it was being run with the '39 H, '54 Super H, LPTO on the Super M-TA, 450, or the jd 4010. Almost ALL ag equipment had either slip clutches or shear bolt protection on the PTO drive also, anything started with a jolt it would shear those bolts or slip the clutch in a heart beat.
I do have the elec. frt & rear PTO on the 982. I turn the rear PTO on once a year in spite of the fact I don't have anything to run off it. The frt PTO normally only gets engaged ONCE when I mow with the 982, and that's been about an average of 5-6 times a year since I got it 9 yrs ago. Always engaged at just above idle speed, and it CHIRPS the belt every time, I'm sure the belt tighteners on the mule drive & 50C deck go crazy when that happens too.
Far as whether there's more mech. PTO's on CC's or elec. PTO's, I thought I totalled up the serial numbers and there should be about 50% more mech. clutches than elec., been YEARS ago, My "CRS" may be acting up. ANYHOW, I know My Buddy's replaced the elec. clutch on his jd 317 at least THREE times since He got it new. That gets real expensive.
