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Archive through December 28, 2006
- Thread starter kide
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Here’s a little experiment to determine exactly what the rather controversial Kohler K-series balance gears contribute to the overall reciprocating balance factor in the single-cylinder engine. A K301 is used as the example.
The standard K301 has a reciprocating balance factor (RBF) of 26.8%. This means that the crankshaft counterweights have a mass-moment necessary to cancel 26.8% of the reciprocating force. The intent of the balance gears is to add to the effect of the counterweight force, this being accomplished by proper phasing of the balancers to operate 180 degrees out of phase with the piston motion. To determine the mass-moment (first moment) of each balancer, the following simple test was conducted.
The balancer was supported on a shaft (cam shaft pin) held in a vise, such that the balancer rotated freely. A string (dental floss) was attached and wrapped around the OD of the gear teeth. A small weight basket was fabricated out of a plastic cup and attached to the string. Washers were used as weights. Enough weight was added such that the balance gear mass was held at 90 degrees from the vertical. This is shown below:
Next, this weight, including the cup and portion of the string that suspended the cup, were weighed:
This mass was 75 grams, or .165 lbm. Now, the OD of the gear was measured.
This diameter (tooth to tooth) is 2.48 inches. Dividing by 2, this yields the moment arm that the mass works through, which is 1.24 inches. Multiplying the mass by the moment arm length yields the effective moment of the balance gear which is .205 in lbm.
Force of a rotating mass is a function of the first moment times rotational speed squared. Using 3600 rpm as the speed and doing a little ciphering, each gear contributes 75.5 lbf of force into the system, or 151 lb for the two gears working in phase. The total unresolved reciprocating force (at 3600 rpm) is 703.5 lbf. Thus, the balance gears reduce this by 703.5-151=552.5 lbf, or a 21% reduction.
Calculating a bit further, this can be related to the reciprocating balance factor which is the parameter of interest. The RBF with the gears installed is increased from 26.8% to 49.1%.
Now, bottom line is how much do these balancers reduce vibration that can be felt in the tractor? Transmitted vibration is a function of the mass, orientation of the forces, vehicle design, and system of mounting – a rather complex problem. As most engines are rigidly mounted to the tractor, and the tractor mass becomes part of the stationary system mass, the increase in vibrational amplitude is nill. This exercise in calculating the difference in amplitude will be left for another day. More data from the tractor and engine weight is necessary. The grand conclusion is, due to the rather small contribution these balancers add combined with their unreliable operation and tendency to blast through the side of a perfectly good block when they fail, DON’T REINSTALL THEM DURING AN OVERHAUL.
The standard K301 has a reciprocating balance factor (RBF) of 26.8%. This means that the crankshaft counterweights have a mass-moment necessary to cancel 26.8% of the reciprocating force. The intent of the balance gears is to add to the effect of the counterweight force, this being accomplished by proper phasing of the balancers to operate 180 degrees out of phase with the piston motion. To determine the mass-moment (first moment) of each balancer, the following simple test was conducted.
The balancer was supported on a shaft (cam shaft pin) held in a vise, such that the balancer rotated freely. A string (dental floss) was attached and wrapped around the OD of the gear teeth. A small weight basket was fabricated out of a plastic cup and attached to the string. Washers were used as weights. Enough weight was added such that the balance gear mass was held at 90 degrees from the vertical. This is shown below:
Next, this weight, including the cup and portion of the string that suspended the cup, were weighed:
This mass was 75 grams, or .165 lbm. Now, the OD of the gear was measured.
This diameter (tooth to tooth) is 2.48 inches. Dividing by 2, this yields the moment arm that the mass works through, which is 1.24 inches. Multiplying the mass by the moment arm length yields the effective moment of the balance gear which is .205 in lbm.
Force of a rotating mass is a function of the first moment times rotational speed squared. Using 3600 rpm as the speed and doing a little ciphering, each gear contributes 75.5 lbf of force into the system, or 151 lb for the two gears working in phase. The total unresolved reciprocating force (at 3600 rpm) is 703.5 lbf. Thus, the balance gears reduce this by 703.5-151=552.5 lbf, or a 21% reduction.
Calculating a bit further, this can be related to the reciprocating balance factor which is the parameter of interest. The RBF with the gears installed is increased from 26.8% to 49.1%.
Now, bottom line is how much do these balancers reduce vibration that can be felt in the tractor? Transmitted vibration is a function of the mass, orientation of the forces, vehicle design, and system of mounting – a rather complex problem. As most engines are rigidly mounted to the tractor, and the tractor mass becomes part of the stationary system mass, the increase in vibrational amplitude is nill. This exercise in calculating the difference in amplitude will be left for another day. More data from the tractor and engine weight is necessary. The grand conclusion is, due to the rather small contribution these balancers add combined with their unreliable operation and tendency to blast through the side of a perfectly good block when they fail, DON’T REINSTALL THEM DURING AN OVERHAUL.
I need some info reguarding putting a sleeve hitch assembly on a 782 that has a gas tank under the seat. (My tractor has a 20hp Command in it so it was moved to the rear.). The tank is directly in the way of where the rock-shaft should mount. Did the tractors set up this way (782D) only come with true 3pts? Thanks and Happy New Year!
rbedell
Well-known member
Paul W:
I'll take a stab at this. This situation is unique.
However, my research comes up with this. The 782D is similar to the 882 with a S/N: 724,500 or higher.
With that in mind, per the attachment guide, it indicates NO sleeve hitch option. (See attachemnt #1 & #2).
Also, per the attachment guide, you can install a Cat 0 - 3 PT with an adaptor (see attacment)
Hope this answers your question(s).
I'll take a stab at this. This situation is unique.
However, my research comes up with this. The 782D is similar to the 882 with a S/N: 724,500 or higher.
With that in mind, per the attachment guide, it indicates NO sleeve hitch option. (See attachemnt #1 & #2).
Also, per the attachment guide, you can install a Cat 0 - 3 PT with an adaptor (see attacment)
Hope this answers your question(s).
avanwettering
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 123
- displayname
- Andy Van Wettering
Dale M, Tell your dad he has got something to be proud of! NICE JOB ON IT! How sharp does it turn compared to the stock length framed tractors?
I could be all wrong here but if my memory serves me right the NF was cheaper than the WF in the 50's. You got to also rember msot barn doors where not that wide also; only allowing the farmer to pull the front end of the tractor in.
We never had WF until 1968. I thought I had died and gone to heaven when you could put the front and rear tire in the furrow. Tractor 706 Diesel Turbo charged.
So the NF Cub has a certain mystique and memories for us "older" farm boys!!
Pops
We never had WF until 1968. I thought I had died and gone to heaven when you could put the front and rear tire in the furrow. Tractor 706 Diesel Turbo charged.
So the NF Cub has a certain mystique and memories for us "older" farm boys!!
Pops
Narrow fronts were to be used to cultivate 2 rows at a time. The front rode in the path between two rows , the rears rode on the outter side of them.
Hit the brake and turn on a dime without turning the steering wheel and give back 9 in change!
Hit the brake and turn on a dime without turning the steering wheel and give back 9 in change!
A Milestone of sorts tonight, I got the 129 started, and played around a bit with the snowblower (no snow to move though), and test out my hydro linkage improvements a bit. The engine started right up, and once the STP burned off the cylinder walls, it ran smoke-free. Things definitely seem tighter, but I will wait until tomorrow to put on the finishing touches.
On the list are to change the Hydro fluid/filter, clean up the wiring a bit, put on the tire chains, and install the tunnel cover and seat. I also want to turn the headlights 90 degrees, they shed light in a vertical pattern, rather than a horizontal one.
Then all I will need to do is wait for snow!!
On the list are to change the Hydro fluid/filter, clean up the wiring a bit, put on the tire chains, and install the tunnel cover and seat. I also want to turn the headlights 90 degrees, they shed light in a vertical pattern, rather than a horizontal one.
Then all I will need to do is wait for snow!!
Glen,
Under hood muffler makes too much heat. Heat is not good on a Kohler. Motor needed a little more back pressure to run right.
I wear hearing protection....I have a 30% hearing loss. How about individuals watching Cubs plowing? I don't want anyone else have this problem because of Cub Cadets (especially the Little Cubbers).
Andy VW,
We never check to see how much difference there is in turning radius.
David Kirk
Interresting article on balance gears. Thanks for taking the time to do the experment and write it up.
Thanks for all the complements (this site and emails) on Dad's tractor. Dad doesn't have a computer. I will show him all the comments the next time Dad comes to my house.
Under hood muffler makes too much heat. Heat is not good on a Kohler. Motor needed a little more back pressure to run right.
I wear hearing protection....I have a 30% hearing loss. How about individuals watching Cubs plowing? I don't want anyone else have this problem because of Cub Cadets (especially the Little Cubbers).
Andy VW,
We never check to see how much difference there is in turning radius.
David Kirk
Interresting article on balance gears. Thanks for taking the time to do the experment and write it up.
Thanks for all the complements (this site and emails) on Dad's tractor. Dad doesn't have a computer. I will show him all the comments the next time Dad comes to my house.
charlie, I need to be able to post on the classified section. My finger wont click the button so I'll post it here ... <font color="0000ff">WANTED: SNOW! Prefer white snow rather than yellow snow. Please send Air Mail for quickest delivery.</font>
Kentuck,
<font color="0000ff">Got a suggestion for, question about or problem with the site? E-mail us at [email protected]
</font>
No snow up here, but we have some really nice fog that we'd be more than happy to blow yer way!
<font color="0000ff">Got a suggestion for, question about or problem with the site? E-mail us at [email protected]
No snow up here, but we have some really nice fog that we'd be more than happy to blow yer way!
KENTuck Ken: Can not help you aprox 4 to 5 hrs. north of you. All we got is dark mud and worked in short sleave shirt outside yesterday!!
Only good thing from all this mild weather is I do not have to heat shop very nuch to work on the Cub.
Pops
Only good thing from all this mild weather is I do not have to heat shop very nuch to work on the Cub.
Pops
Kraig Mc; on 06 Dec 2006,you posted a pic for subframes and blades for my viewing pleasure.I have a wf subframe enroute,but parts #20 and #23 are not with it.What are they and are they available through a vendor?Thanks for your time,Bob B.
Gotcha Dale...
I found that as soon as I got mine in June, it ran alot hotter with the stock muffler in the way, so, I bought the FCub muffler and made it vertical, so that it was quiet, and it made it look a little more like it's predecessors...
On another note it is cool and foggy again here in the Crab state (MD). Now, if only it would get cold enough and sleet, snow, or otherwise, just to give me an excuse to clean the driveway with both machines...
I found that as soon as I got mine in June, it ran alot hotter with the stock muffler in the way, so, I bought the FCub muffler and made it vertical, so that it was quiet, and it made it look a little more like it's predecessors...
On another note it is cool and foggy again here in the Crab state (MD). Now, if only it would get cold enough and sleet, snow, or otherwise, just to give me an excuse to clean the driveway with both machines...
Good Morning!
The starter I installed works fine with cold start. After running the tractor a while the Bendix does not want to engage. Could it be that I am losing electrical power somewhere when the tractor is warm but not when it is cold? Or, could it be that this tractor eats starters? Is this the time to buy a tester and ohm meter as suggested?
The starter I installed works fine with cold start. After running the tractor a while the Bendix does not want to engage. Could it be that I am losing electrical power somewhere when the tractor is warm but not when it is cold? Or, could it be that this tractor eats starters? Is this the time to buy a tester and ohm meter as suggested?
jhillegass
Well-known member
I'm going to be doing some hydro trunnion repairs to a 149 soon and will have the hydro off the tractor.
To replace the cork hydro gasket, what's the general opinion........Is it better to go back with a cork gasket or a neopreme gasket? Are there any special sealants to use with either gasket?
3 years ago for my 129, I made my own cork gasket from material gotten at my local cub cadet dealer and used some blue permatex sealant on the gasket. Now after two working years, it is seaping a little oil again.
So what's the best gasket for my 149 poject?
Thanks
To replace the cork hydro gasket, what's the general opinion........Is it better to go back with a cork gasket or a neopreme gasket? Are there any special sealants to use with either gasket?
3 years ago for my 129, I made my own cork gasket from material gotten at my local cub cadet dealer and used some blue permatex sealant on the gasket. Now after two working years, it is seaping a little oil again.
So what's the best gasket for my 149 poject?
Thanks
