Archive through March 26, 2014

[dlbarnett]

Here's my .02 on Jerry's engine. It would be one thing if Jerry had a used engine to install to save money. Then all the changing of stuff maybe justified if he had all other parts laying around to make it work. But to pay good money for a rebuilt engine and then the added expense and time to make it fit doesn't add up. If there was a "upgrade" as far as power, reliability, maybe.
Also removing the balance gears may void any warranty provided the rebuilder.
I would contact the supplier, send back the engine (at their expense) and have them send the correct one.

 

[hydroharry]

Doug B - yes I basically agree with you and I'm hoping Jerry G is able to do that since he did say he was working with this company. I was concerned with his earlier information that this company must have told him the balance gears need to be in the engine even tho his original engine did not have them. That sounded to me like a made up story just to get him to keep the (short block) engine - and maybe even believe it was better than his original. David Kirk has it well documented that the balance gears do not sufficiently balance the engine, and they are a well known cause of engine failures. I suspect you're also correct about voiding any warranty if Jerry removes the balance gears.

Bill QQ - is there a Kohler tag on your 109 engine? I remember the discussions earlier about your dipstick on the 10hp. Your tag will have a serial number that can be cross-referenced to a build date year. Should be able to determine from that if your engine is at least of the correct vintage.

Jerry G - Wayne S has provided you some good information. If you haven't already you should click on the colorful box above for "Kirk Engines" and then read about the crankshaft balance plate kit that David Kirk has designed. His information also discusses the imbalance that Kohler had on these K series engines.

 

[bjamison]

Harry B - I can't remember what the name plate on the 109's engine stated, it on camp duty, but I might be out there this weekend and will have a look-see, if I remember....

Quick question - I am to understand there is an adapter kit that IH use to offer, P/N 223-298-C91 to allow (at least) the 44A decks to fit a narrow frame tractor such as my 126. Anyone have any pics, pdf's or experience with this kit and it's contents? Been doing some searching here and there and see mention of it, but no pics. It would be great if I could figure out how to put a later WF deck, like the 44A on my 126.

 

[dtanner]

Well it is Yellow !

 

[jbaker]

See what happens when you post off topic Don.

 

[jboelens]

sorry jeff! was mounting tires tonight. (4) deestone 4x8 3 ribs done. the bar tires are tomorrow night!

 

[hydroharry]

Bill @@ J - quick answer, the adapting kit is most likely a combination of various sub-frame parts from other units that already exist. The mule drive part will likely have offset pulleys (like used on a wide frame set up). The lift fork part might be different so it doesn't interfere with the offset center pulley on the deck. You probably have most all the parts already from the various tractors you have, it's just a matter of trial and error figuring out what you need to make it work. Rather than spending time this weekend looking for the serial number tag on your 109 - spend your time flip-flopping the sub-frame parts until you find the set up that works - or report back that it's impossible.

 

[bjamison]

Harry B - I've got several subframes to pick from, aside from what's on the 126 and 109. I've got a couple of subframes for a 44 inch deck, a 48 inch WF deck and subframe from a 149, a pin-on subframe from a 122 for a 42 inch deck and somewhere have a subframe from a later model CCC tractor that goes with my spare 50c deck.

Not going to spend a ton of time and $$$'s with this, but there ought to be a way to easily convert a WF deck to a NF. I'm amazed this hasn't been done repeatedly as if one, in the day, had a NF and wanted or liked a 44 or 50 inch WF deck, should have been easily able to make the swap. Sometimes I think IH got lost in making thick metal and cast iron parts, but left their brain on the shelf when it came to commonality between series tractors....

 

[lpalma]

Bill QQ
sent you a pdf of the adapting pkg.

 

[bjamison]

Lew - got it, thanks!!!!!

 

[hydroharry]

Hey Do-Dah - what's the part number on that adapting pkg you sent to QQ? My CPE-2 parts book lists 61 613 C92 to adapt 44A mowers to Tractors with serial no. 65458 to 400,000 but also says to order Pulley 59 703 C1 for Mowers w/ Serial No. 81742 and above. In checking the individual part numbers I see the hanger assembly itself is the same as used on the narrow frame. The fork part (called the center frame) does "not" cross reference to others so it may actually be a special version. I didn't have time to cross reference the other small parts.

Bill QQ - looks like my earlier QA (Quick Answer) was a bit incorrect (wrong). You won't have the fork - but I still think you may be able to assemble a complete sub-frame with mule drive that would probably work.

 

[dfrisk]

Bill J said, "Sometimes I think IH got lost in making thick metal and cast iron parts, but left their brain on the shelf when it came to commonality between series tractors.... "

Sorry but I think you're DEAD wrong there Bill. Even between NF & WF's there's LOTS of interchangeable parts.

 

[jbaker]

X2 what Dennis said.

 

[lpalma]

No do dah,just lew
Same ting I sent to qq as you posted.

 

[wcompton]

x3... I have a tractor nearly completely built that never existed, using parts spanning 1966 to 1996.

AND... for what its worth. Hi-vac decks CAN be used on older units IF the post-1993 super steer front axle is installed. The axle raises the front end up 2"... this has geometry issues if you also use the same unit to push a blade.

 

[bjamison]

Denny and Jeff - no way do I ever want to get under your skin with my comments, but having come to IHCC from other color tractors, some of this stuff jumps out when you start digging into the IHCC tractors, it's an interesting part of the hobby. BTW the other color tractors have things that I scratch my head just the same. I just don't look at any of these tractors as perfect, heck even MTD made improvements on the IH designs too. Doesn't make it anything wrong with the tractor - it is what it is. I'm just commenting on it. I stand by my remarks.

Harry B - I believe the kit part number is 223-298-C91. I noticed in the illustration in the subframe over the deck looks like it is reused too (if I'm reading your comment correctly).

Thanks again Lew for the PDF and everyone else for their comments!

 

[dfrisk]

Bill J said, "I stand by my remarks." You're allowed to be wrong here if you like.

With the exception of the Original '61/'63 model CC's, and the Quiet-Lines, and maybe the later red tractors, it's REALLY hard to imagine how IH could have gotten more old parts used on new model tractors no matter how hard they tried.

Not much changed from a model 70/100 up to a 73/1X6/1X7, and you can even add the 86/1X8/1X9's in there too.

 

[bjamison]

"You're allowed to be wrong here if you like."

 

[hydroharry]

Bill QQ - the "hanger" (IH name) that goes on the front (attaches with the QA latch) is the same as used on the narrow frame tractors for the serial numbers I identified. This is just the hanger itself, not the spring, bushing, rod going across, etc. These are the smaller parts I didn't have time to check but I think are different than normall used on NF or WF tractors.

The basic sub-frame (rectangular bracket that hangs under the tractor) is drawn in with dotted lines so I assume it's the one from the original tractor. The "fork" part that attaches to this subframe (2 arms on the front and 1 arm toward the rear) is the part that seems to have a specific part number of it's own for a 44A to be used on a NF tractor.

So - if this is what you thought I meant then your correct.

As for your comment ".... left their brain on the shelf...", if you get yourself about 6 more tractors I'm certain you're gonna discover you've made an error. Considering just the Narrow Frame series (which covers a whole bunch of units) you can attach most any attachment (maybe all of them) backwards and forwards thru the entire NF series. I think IH even made it a point of making things easily backwards compatible. You seem to be investigating a 44A deck being backwards compatible. It appears it is although I've never done it. The best example of backwards compatible may be the "A" suffix snow throwers - where all you do is adjust the width of the mounting hanger. I think you need to do some further investigating and report back on your findings. Yes, you are allowed to be wrong if you like. Most of us oldtimers will stand up and admit it when we are so I'm guessing you're a bit of a young'n.

 

[snoel]

I'm new here, and not sure if this, is where to ask a question. But admin can "fix it", I'm sure.
I just bought a CC 149. The engine in it, is the K801, with Magnum 12, on the flywheel shield. It has the gear starter, and I am guessing the internal alternator?
Any information as to what it may have been in, originally? Or is it maybe a "Duke's mixture"?