Archive through December 23, 2014

[jchamberlin]

Dave, sounds exciting, but I think the archive bug bit into your last post.

You raise an interesting question, regarding cold weather and electricity, as far as I know the cold weather affects the battery's ability to store a decent charge, but it shouldn't interfere with the spark's generation or delivery.

Factors which will definitely affect cold weather starting include:

1. Oil temperature and hence viscosity (engine & transmission [if hydrostatic])

2. Water content in the fuel. At extreme temperatures, the water freezes in the line, if not the tank.

I'm not sure, but the cold weather may affect how well switches work by frosting the contacts, as well as how well the generator works at the commutator. Also, contrary to what I noted above, it seems to me that the spark plug connection at the coil seems to "shrink up" and/or work loose, making a poor connection. I also imagine that older insulation is stressed by the temps. I suppose the points could also get a little frosted at times too.

My first thoughts on the matter. I would be interested to hear what others think or learn of specific instances of cold weather starting stories. I imagine there a few out there.

 

[dschwandt]

I couldn't see how cold would affect it either, but this thing will not start when cold unless I use starter fluid/carb cleaner. once warmed up....no problem.

It is my major tiller tractor in the spring and never has a problem starting then. This is the 1st time I have ever tried using it during the fall winter season. Has a fresh battery also.
Seeing as how it has the hydro lift and already had chains & weights from tiller duty, I thought I'd hang a snow blade on it this winter for the G'daughters to use, that is if I could ever get 'em outta the house when snow comes!!

My boys will both be home this weekend so I'll have to lay in a supply of suds 'n chips and we'll see what we can get done in the shop. The oldest is htaching a brainstorm about hanging a trolly system of sorts from the ceiling to lift engines & things and move them to the work table.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Doug B. I'll have to have Ian measure for me. He has the blade on his 127. I just remember having to squeeze the forks enough to miss my spring assist also. I'll see if he can get a measurement in the morning.

David S. Both of our 1650s seem to want to be very cold blooded in the winter. Once warmed up they run just fantastic.

ALSO>>> BEFORE installing your grille housing onto the frame ... CUT two pieces of neoprene gasket material or perhaps even rubber material approximately the same thickness as the cork gasket used on the hydro pump where it bolts to the transmission. Cut them to shape for where the grille housing mates to the frame. When you bolt together the grill housing to the frame those two gaskets will absorb a LOT of vibration and make your tractor a much quieter machine. If you really are ambitious do the same with the hood hinge. It really takes a lot of noise away from a vibrating hood.

 

[jpatchett]

David S.

Your statement holds the answer “but this thing will not start when cold unless I use starter fluid/carb cleaner”. The starter fluid is highly flammable fuel, much like gasoline. The engine is not getting enough fuel from the carb. This could be couple of things.

1. When you pull the choke, have you ever checked to see if the butterfly valve in the carb is fully closed? If it is not fully closed the engine is getting too much air.

2. Do you adjust your carb based on air temperature? Cold air is more dense, so the ratio of fuel to air can be greater than 14.5 to 1, too lean. I adjust the carb a little differently from summer(leaner) to winter (richer).

3. When was the carb last rebuilt? A worn out dirty carb can create huge starting problems, poor atomization of fuel, air leaks around throttle shaft, clogged fuel passages are the major issues.

Jim

 

[hydroharry]

The little integrated starter on the Kohler AQS engines, doesn't turn it over as fast as the A-C Delco S/G did. In colder temps the engine oil gets thicker, and the hydro fluid does as well, all combining to slow that starter even more making it more difficult to start. IH knew or realized this and offered a cold weather clutch release for the hydros (clutch just like the manual drive units). I don't recommend the clutch since when you are using the tractor the clutch releases the hydro and no longer acts to slow stop the tractor - you need good brakes.

I think it's most important to make sure your timing on the AQS engine is set dead nuts with a timing light, and that your valves are adjusted correctly. I tried 5W20 oil that Kohler recommended below zero temps and quickly realized this oil was just to thin (like water) after the engine warmed up. I ended up using straight 30W year round and never really had trouble with my 14hp AQS. I learned it just turned over slower, and took a little longer to start. It had to be half choked for a little while even after it started, but with the timing set correctly, a good plug and fresh gas, it always started.

As far as all the other stuff you guys mentioned, it had always been my understanding that the colder temps reduced the spark at the plug, and that gas doesn't ignite as quickly in colder temps. Combine this with the engine turning over more slowly, and you get harder/slower starting. Just saying - now lets hear from the experts.

(under edit - I see Jim P was posting while I was typing. His comments about possible problems sound good to me. I used to check and set my timing twice a year, spring and fall, and tweak the carb adjustments at the same time. Boy did I love those Kohler fumes).

 

[dschwandt]

Carb is/was a fresh rebuild just before spring tiller season and rig was used several times during the summer as well.

I'll have it back together in a day or so and will have to do some more tweaking of the carb I guess. Going to static time it as well while I have it on the stand. I cleaned up the flywheel marks and highlighted them w/grease pencil when I had the cover off for cleaning. Have to put a new bearing in the rag joint connector yet. They showed up in the mail this AM. Need to replace one of the hydro valves yet as well. Have an NOS one somewhere If I can just find it!! I suspect I'm probably not the only one that has that problem though!!

Appreciate the tips!!

Merry Christmas every one!!!
Stay Safe, Sober, Sane and, hopefully, not broke!!!

 

[sblunier]

A couple other cold weather starting thoughts:

10W-30 Synthetic oil

When tractors sit for long periods of time (between snow falls in the winter) the light hydrocarbons in the fuel can evaporate out of the gas in the carb bowl. These are the same easily vaporizing components of gasoline that light off quickly on start up. I have heard of some people shutting off the fuel for a minute or so before they shut of the tractor, so that next time they come back to it they can turn on the fuel and get a good charge of gas back in the bowl.

Battery Tender Jr.......These little gems charge at .75 Watts and automatically shut off when battery voltage exceeds 12.5V.......awesome for keeping the battery "topped off" while you wait for the next snow.....just plug them in and forget about them.

If you have the time, heat on the hydro (magnetic heater under differential) makes a difference too.

BTW, too much ether or brake cleaner will eventually foul/frost the plug and make starting even harder. Might try a new plug.

 

[hydroharry]

David S - couple things I should have brought up to start with. When you say "this thing just won't start unless I use starter fluid/carb cleaner", can you tell us how the engine acts? I assume you're using full choke and Jim P already mentioned checking to insure the butterfly is fully closing when full choked. Is the engine turning over very slowly or a little more slowly? Or does it sound as tho it's turning over as it normally does even in warm weather, but it just doesn't fire and start? Giving us this info will help us all decide better what real issue you are having.

If it seems like the engine is turning over slower, I'd start with making sure your battery is up to snuff, and it's sized with at least 275CCA minimum but 350CCA would be better. If you're good here and your timing is set dead nuts, and you think your carb is set pretty good, well it must be your oil and hydro fluid slowing the starting rotation. I never used 10W30 synthetic oil but Steve B recommended and alot of guys have done to it. Might be worth a try. Steve mentioned warming the hydro rearend which would help if it is practical for you to do. If you do some of these things and it still seems to be turning over at the same rate or rotation then I'd begin to wonder if your starter is getting weak. The Kohler manual does call out some maintenance on the starter (but I never did it that I recall). I suppose there could be several other things causing your problem - but top of my list is timing. Let us know what you find and whether your temps are cold enough now to slow you down.

 

[lhinds]

David S the one thing that has helped me the most when starting my cubs in the winter is keeping my gasoline clean and with Marvel mystery oil in the gas. The mmo is the best fuel stabilizer I have used. Most of the time I turn fuel off and let my tractors run out of gas in the carb also. Hope everyone has a very nice Christmas and remember to say a prayer for our military and policemen.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Good Morning, All!!! I can't believe that I have the next five days off before we work Monday and Tuesday.

Doug B. I haven't been able to contact Ian yet. Since it is Christmas Eve it may be after Christmas. Basically what I did is just wrap a rope around the back pickle forks and put enough tension on them to hold them while on the cross bar with enough clearance so I didn't touch the spring assist or the other side. Once centered I measured the distance between the inside of the forks and cut a flat piece of iron and fitted it in place. I then removed everything and proceeded to weld the piece to the spot that I used a magic marker to make sure that I had placed the flat iron in the same area I took measurements.

I hope this is okay to post since Amy K. is building her own tractor cab. Tractor Cabs. Plus she'll need a heater for keep warm. Heater page. I like the plug in to the cigarette lighter one.

 

[glippert]

Man, all these cold weather starting tips are a great Christmas gift for everyone. The level of knowledge about these tractors, and everyone's willingness to share their knowledge, is what makes this place one of my first online destinations every day.

Merry Christmas to everyone (or whatever politically correct version you may prefer). And thanks again to Charlie for keeping this place up and running for another year (especially with your own adversity to deal with). And while I'm at it, let's not forget Charlie's main elf, Kraig. Great job!

 

[akleyla]

Santa wanted me to remind you all to leave cookies out for him tonight. If ya leave the good ones out maybe he will have cub parts for ya in the morning or another IH cub under your tree....heres to im going to be good tonight

Merry Christmas to you all and may you have have a blessed Holiday tonight and tomorrow

 

[fcurrier]

It's time: (Hey Gerry - a resurrection)

 

[aschumacher]

For those people that have young kids...check this out.
www.noradsanta.org
Merry Christmas from my little corner on the east coast.

 

[tbergh]

merry christmas everbody

 

[bjkohnert]

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[jstertz]

Merry Christmas all! Another great year of Cubbin' here at the Stertz home. Thanks for all your help and input throughout the year. Special thanks to Charlie and Kraig keeping the site up and rolling. It's a great community. I'll try to get a Christmas Cub pic later today to post with the fam!

 

[jbaker]

Merry Christmas to all ho ho ho ho

 

[digger]

Hoping everyone has a very Merry Christmas!
If not in person, at least in spirit!

 

[bbranstetter]

Merry Christmas to everyone! Praying for everyone to have a safe, happy holiday and a bright New Year.