The NRA-Gun Rights- Finding Solutions

[cmcleod]

Since the "ammo shortage thread "has taken up the topics of gun rights and more, I thought maybe a new thread to discuss and share our personal thoughts and solutions to the problems might be shared in this thread, since it ihas moved beyond not being able to finding ammo.


What I am thinking it that the topic of conversation has gotten onto gun rights, the NRA releasing its study and report and our personal thoughts and solutions that we might have to gun violence in American, in your little corner of the world. Its always closer then we think it is, right?


Its someone elses fault. IT always is, isn't it? in each of the mass murdering events that have played out recently in our communities across this nation it has been at the hand of one person. Someone elses fault, and cause of that, those who don't break the law are being punished.!! Really? personally I have heard enough of that conversation. Until solutions are found, violence will continue to increase and it is..so now what?

In each personal act of violence that does take place, it is always someone else's doing. But that does not erase US from the response and the solution to the problem. And with that being said, hopefully some thought provoking talk can take place here?

What with Conneticut being the first state to address and enact "far reaching Gun Control Laws", I'm sure there are many who are feeling the extremes of these laws. As a Nation, how can we expect less, when such a tragedy as the massacre of 20 children and 6 adults took place in that state, leaving them feeling angry and helpess. Something HAD to give. I was abit surprized at the extent of what laws were enacted, but I thought they were appropriate in light of the tragedy that happened at Sandy Hook Elementary a few days before Christmas of last year. How can we as a society expect nothing to happen,no change to take place when the results have such far reaching responses for us all? Or I feel it should affect us all. It shouldnt be about they are going to take away our 7th Amendment rights.!! NO..that isn't going to happen. The legacy of our freedoms is strong and proud and it is ones right to PROTECT themselves. However, change has to manifest in order for the future to not hold what the past has given us. It is crystal clear that violence is becoming a common every day event in our lives. yes in our lives. We never know when we might be the next person, the next family effected by the acts of others. Do we? As I have said in the past, within my own family, there is the legacy of gun violence. That does not sway me from others having the legal right to protect themselves, but I do know what happens when violence hits home. Also I have been the victim of violence and have had a loaded gun pointed at me. I wish no one had to be in that place..EVER in their lives.

the NRA spent over $1 Million for the study and and then a comprehensive 225 page report that was just released addressing gun violence. The focus on that report in gun violence in schools and how to protect the innocent. The report in indepth and has a mulitude of suggestions.
They stated that the Federal Government needs to be responsive in looking for and aiding in solutions to the problem as well.

So, what's you all thinking, or thunking about?

I certainly wouldnt appreciate posts that end up in rant and rave, and if those happen, personally, I'm not even going to read those, as I dont feel agressive words need to be the norm when it comes to talking about what is happening with current events. it isn't about ammo being in short supply, or the 7th Ammedment being struck down. That isn't going to happen.


Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

Jerimiah, I was very taken by your Last post on the ammo shortage thread and you made some great points."
I found this quote from you to be intense and extremely honest, to which all of mankind should ponder.

the reason we feel we need guns and ammo to protect us from others does NOT do much to recommend our species. I wish we could find a way, as William James put it, to make peace with the same moral force as we wage war. The trouble is, if we take that course of action, we would have to admit to our mistakes, and no one wants to do that! "
THANKS for sharing that Jerimiah.


I want to share a little. Get a few things off my heart. Everyone makes their own points. Expressions from strong emotions, feelings. Somewhere within a lot of offerings I hear a tinge of fear. Not saying anyone is living in fear, yet mankind as a whole has adopted the truth to be, I will get them before they get me. What a troubling place to live one's life base from.

Of couse we all should have the right to protect ourselves. I have never believed for a moment that when all the GUN talk came up again after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in NewTown, Conn, that anyones rights to bear arms would be taken away. The legacy of bearing arms to protect begins with the colonization of settlers on this great land, thoughtfully called " Turtle Island" by the Orignal people who lived upon this land before the foreigners arrived. If memory serves me right, and although I have moments of " fog", I do believe with the right to bear arms, The 7th Amendment, that originally, men didnt run amok with packing weapons to defend themselves against intruders. All arms were kept in a specific area and when a threat emerged, the men would go to this specific place to gather the weapons. Surely a kinder and safer time, although they were certainly feeling that those red savages were going to kill them all. HUGE SIGH. anyways, lets not get into that legacy...

moving on. Prisons. As Marlin brought up points on prisons and Jerimiah added to, yes for some who are sentenced, it is hell to end up in prison. It should Be. It shouldnt be a place to further ones criminal activity, which is does, and it doesn't do a bang up job of reforming. Jerimiahs points on the use of prison, to break the souls of sinning persons was thought induced. It causes one to have a lot of time for reflecting. YETTT, in this time and age we are now in it seems that protecting ourself against the enemy is at every turn. None of us are truely safe anytime you leave the santity and safety of your own home and even with that, one isn't safe, with home invasions increating. man has taken it upon himself to destroy everything sacred upon this earth and all of life that lives upon it, in relationship with ourselves. little seems sacred to countless many. So we have the new ways of living, in a violet society.


What can we do to stop griping and complaining about some restrictings they put on some weapons, which honestly were NEVER designed for the common man to own or use, and to find ways to create a safer society for the whole?

There is a saying. Each tought, each action, create a response in the Universe. As Chief Seattle so wisely offered " Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect."

If you believe that OR not..in my life I have found that yes, there will always be a response given. Each of us is accountable. if we Each find ways to be proactive, creative and healing in the process of creating a society we desire to live in and to give to the following generations to come..THEN as individuals and as a whole we CAN find soluations that work for the WHOLE. It's time to stop thinking selfishly and think perhaps of the whole. At least about your personal generations to come?

Cathleen

 

[kmcconaughey]

Cathleen, I believe you mean the Second Amendment...

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There have been several laws over the years that have indeed infringed on this right. They should all be repealed. None of the laws that have been passed do any good to restrict criminals from getting guns, remember they are criminals or have criminal intent and thus they do not care about laws. Once the Second Amendment is voided the First Amendment will quickly be voided as well.

Men are inherently evil. The Second Amendment was put there so that We The People could protect ourselves from the Federal Government should that government become tyrannical. However it does come in handy for people to protect themselves from the random evil person. The best defense for schools, elementary through college, would be for random armed teachers, professors, custodians, office personnel and so on. Guards can be profiled and then targeted rendering them ineffective. I'm not saying that we should willy nilly give guns to teachers and so on but those that volunteer and go through training could be allowed to carry concealed weapons. It's the unknown that would be the deterrent to the bad guy. So called "Gun Free Zones" are easy targets for those with evil intent, no resistance. The Colorado theater shooter drove past several theaters to get to the one that did not allow guns on the property. The theaters he drove past to get there did not prohibit guns. Hmmm, I wonder why he drove past them? Actually I don't wonder, I know why, because there would be little chance of anyone shooting back in the gun free zone of the theater he chose to target.

Regarding the ammo shortage, I believe it's mostly a supply and demand thing. The demand has gone way up.

Off the soap box.

 

[cmcleod]

just a thought as I now go off to snuggle with my furkids.

I couldnt even keep THEM Safe...

..When a neighbor kid thought it would just be DAM funny to take a high power pellet rifle and shoot Fancy as he sat in OUR front yard. The kid had a friend drive him down our drive..stop and take aim. Five years later, Fancy still has fear with cars driving by, scared someone is going to stop and shoot him again. NO, Not kidding. What spring joy for a kid who was old enough to know better. Fancy was then rushed to the vet for emergency surgery. it went in his back, just missing his spine and exited his stomach.

My point??..some shouldnt even have pellet guns.! Those who kill animals, or attempt to, often to go on to commit violent acts/murder. A fact.

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

Kraig..ohhhh good grief. I can't believe I put 7th ammemdment.

I go off not to sulk with great ....

can you laugh about it? you know what I meant, right?

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

Kraig, respectfully I dont believe the 2nd ammendment right will ever be overturned. EVER.

Yep, oh the history of the development the 2nd Amend. That history and what IS today is quite different.

I personally believe the laws that were enacted in Conn. were extreme. Just my personal thoughts.

Yes, laws are repealed, rights have been taken away, due to the acts of the criminals. How, then do we change society as a whole? There has to be a solution..do we continue with everyone arm themselves and the mindset of I'll get them before they get me? I believe that IS the mindset of the criminals?

how about anyone who commits a violent act against any human being..they be sent to a remote island to live. No accomodations given. live off the land, learn how to be productive so you can continue to live..OR die? no ways of escape. Get along orrrr kill each other. There they who have taken another life, will be presented with the same truth should they wish to not just " get along" with everyone.. I am sitting here quietly chuckling to myself. I like the ship them off.. prisons do no good..they aide and abet as far as I'm personally concerned.

Oh and I dont think sharing your views is being on a soap box. I think that perverbial soap box is when you believe your personal views are the only ones that are correct and viable and those of others is phooey. As they say we have to learn to agree to disagree

.. and STILL like each other..

Cathleen

 

[wshytle]

Kraig-

You nailed it plain and simple. As I've heard from several different sources lately, "the best way to protect from a bad person with a gun is having good person with a gun present".

It also involves how a person is raised. I, like many was raised with guns in the house. They weren't locked up and nobody knew what a trigger lock was or that they even existed. Most times there was a loaded gun leaning up behind a door or several doors. The children just knew you didn't mess with Pops guns period. There was a different way to ensure that rule was kept as well. Today that's called child abuse; then it was called a whipping. And all children knew what getting a whipping meant and none EVER wanted one. I'm a firm believer that how a child is raised is everything about how that child acts as an adult...period. It may sound sexist but the woman in todays society decides how children get punished (if you want to call it that) in most cases. And physical pain just isn't heard of any longer or else the parent goes to jail. Todays prison systems are about the same when it comes to doing any good in what it's designed to do as far as punishment goes. When a man, for instance, takes the life of an innocent young person, ESPECIALLY for sex, I see nothing wrong in simply taking his life...and in short order. If the proof is there don't continue wasting tax payers money drawing the case out for years and years. Kill the bastard, give the family of the victim the closure it deserves, and move on.

 

[cmcleod]

I am thinking again. That in itself can be trouble..haha, just ask Marlin. Seriously though, is what I have offered up defensive or divisional to any memember here, then I would rather it not Be.

I know that political/religious posts aren't allowed, yet some other posts I've read have fallen in those area's so I get abit confused.

I am not confused though about NOT wanting to create conflict. I don't want that. I have been reading and listening with great intent the works of the NRA and others who have tried to come to some solutions after the tragedy's that took place last year. I was curious as to how others feel.

I get frustrated when I hear the same talk over and over and it feels nothing in a positive direction is ever going to come to fruitation. Does anyone else feel that way? just my personal frustrations.

Per reading along and responding to the ammo shortage, that took a directional change, and I felt that was good. I read some things that were concerning and I felt some of it maybe wasn't foro the whole of the forum to read.

Maybe

this thread I created doesn't belong.?

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

I want to toss this in the ring.

Years ago we were raised differently. I agree Wayne.

We also weren't raised or ingested all the preservations, antibiotics , additivies that are in the foods we eat. Also there are plentiful studies as to food allergies that can lead to severe mental impairments, creating agressive behavior/violence towards other. Since the majority of those commiting these acts are in the younger age groups and the prominace of the problems weaving into younger and younger children, could that have a root in all the violence/murder in the present day? There has to be a reason. To how a person was raised is certainly a huge factor. yet we can each look into our own families and have siblings perhaps who are fine and those who aren't so fine. Mental illness runs in familys.

In the case of the Sandy Hook tragedy, the mother of the young male who commited the act was an avid gun enthusist. She knew her son was mentally unstable. So, shouldnt she have taken measures to keep herself and the whole of society safe, by practicing safe gun storage? That should NOT sound stupid to anyone. if it does then I do have a bone to pick with you. yes, It cost her the ultimate price. HER life.!! I could say something really snide right now, but you probably know what that is, so I won't.

ok...now my nap. over and out and I know..you say thank goodness.. I'm smiling..that's ok. All women are not stupid nor have we spent life in a home not knowing the ways and evils or life and society in our lifetime. Trust me on that.

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

Can I ask something of you men? I keep saying over and over that we have the right to arm ourselves and protect ourselves, yet in the past when I have posted, the argument comes up, point in case. its like I am avidly ranting for gun controls. NO NO NO. I am screaming out.. what in the heck are we going to do to fix the problem. A good person having a gun so they can protect themselves from a bad person.. I have heard that over and over. No disrespect meant by that. BUT BUT BUT... ???? thats all I'm saying.

I'm not going to post anymore. You can all share. I have said what I wanted to say and regardless of what I do say, in starting this post, it was NOT to say our rights need to be taken away, that our guns need to be taken away.. it was nothing of the likes.. so ...?? frustrated yes.

HasANYONE read a part of the report that the NRA put out? anything?

Cathleen

 

[mhomrighausen]

Going to put a few logs on the still hot smokin' gun here...

Point in case ... I believe it was just last month that in Des Moines, Iowa a boy was shot and killed by one of his friends. The gentleman that owned the gun(s) in the house was a Vietnam Vet and was mentoring the children in a lot of ways and looked upon them as he would his own children. The boys were ALWAYS instructed to LEAVE THE GUNS ALONE when he wasn't around and as children sometimes do... they got one of the guns and now a child is dead and one of the boys is in jail facing a long long time in prison. The Vietname Vet was so deeply disturbed that the very next day in his car .... he shot himself. (Long story short ... Kinda somewhat mutes the point of growing up being taught to respect guns as kids... doesn't it?)

Point in case.... The original column..."What's up with the Ammo shortage?" started from all the things that I've re-read as a conspiracy thingy of some sorts and it wasn't until I actually took the time (not much time wasted since I'm on the lazy side at times) and did some research as to just why there is an an ammunition shortage. (I know why they wanted to shoot that Village Idiot now.)

Solutions... Remember that stupid poem I put down and the girl's quote... "Look at the headlines. Isn't that a shame? WE can point at OTHERS and yet deny WE'RE ALSO to blame." Now truthfully... How many here actually think going back to the mid 1800s to very early 1900s here in the United States is going to solve anything? By that I mean everyone toting a gun of some sorts. Has anyone thought about the so-called "bad guy" having a bigger, faster, draw or gun? Didn't anyone pay attention to that dumb story..."Why We Needed To Shoot The Village Idiot and the hidden truths within it. You know about how those growth additives added to animal feeds and some of those preservatives are actually starting to show ill effects on humans. For gosh sakes ... do as one should do and seek solutions and not just look at carrying a gun or having enough ammunition/firepower so that General George Custer would look under powered at Little Big Horn. If I recall correctly... Custer and his men didn't run out of ammunition. They ran out of time.

I'm going to close with something and I want ALL of you to think carefully about what I'm going to write. Just this very afternoon, Angel shared with me a very real story of something that happened to her. I told her that when the time is right... THEN she MUST write it here ... She needs to... It will help her heal a very real scar... AND should make everyone think.

Off to do some mischief... I'll close with a couple of neat golden oldies... Listen to the lyrics CLOSELY

Of course everyone likes THIS ONE

But when all is said and done and the final bullet is fired... Perhaps.

 

[jclazar]

I don't believe capital punishment is justified, enforced quickly, or fairly to the victim's family. Because of Human Rights, it is ok for a killer to have killed someone, and have the right to rot away behind bars. I feel strongly about this because the message fails to get across the board.

If people in office go against the 2en Amendment Right, those people should be tried for treason, plain and simple. What scares people about giving up the guns is that then we the people have no choice but to be oppressed by the crooked government we have today. Whats more, is the people whom say "oh, that can't happen in America " . That is sick. Let me remind you of something. Man has, and always will have the desire to enslave and control mankind. Make no mistake about it.

Why does the government make better weapons to kill and destroy mankind, but yet we cant help the poor, hungry, and failing school system.

I don't pay attention to the crap spewed all over the evening news. I turn to Billy Graham Classics .

 

[mhomrighausen]

Some days, I wonder why I get out of bed. (Those are the days it's either raining or too cold or I'm lazy.) KEY WORDS>>>> Finding Solutions...

Okay... Remember.. The blame thingy that I just wrote about? Question? Why do WE KEEP electing the same officials to office then? ANSWER>>> Because we're afraid of change, We don't want to loose all those pork barrel benefits that these elected (by us) officials get us, and the list goes on. We're afraid to elect someone else because they might try and make a difference. Remember... President Kennedy's wife didn't say... "HE killed my husband." If I recall correctly she said,. "THEY killed my husband." Sometimes ya just gotta wonder; What did she and her late husband really know? Are we afraid to find out? Do any of us really ask serious questions to these elected officials?

Has anyone really read up on the NRA lately? Are most of us truly paranoid?

One of my Favorites

Where is my hero when I need him?

 

[digger]

 

[wshytle]

Amen Charlie...(imagine that coming from me)

This needs to be in the garage...if anywhere.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Charlie P.

Thank You!!! Geezer's Garage sounds like a great place.

 

[sgalante]

Cathleen, I read along in your post and pretty much agreed with everything you said, then I got to this part of one of your sentences:

...about some restrictions they put on some weapons, which honestly were NEVER designed for the common man to own or use...

What weapons are you talking about. The majority of the weapons that Diane Feinstein wanted to ban and my illustrious Govenor Cuomo has banned, are nothing more than hunting rifles that look different. I can get a perfectly legal 10 shot hunting rifle, put a different stock on it, and all of a sudden it becomes illegal under the "Assault Weapons Ban." That is one piece that doesn't make sense. The other is that for the next 10 days, I can carry my H&K 9mm with a 15 round magazine (with only 7 bullets in it), and then on April 15th, that magazine becomes illegal to carry. I can't even own it as of next April 15th in New York.
As for the background checks. In theory I agree with them. We need to restrict guns from those with felony convictions. But, how do we provide personal information protection for those mental patients considering HIPPA laws? Does anyone think that criminals will be stopped from buying illegal guns off the street? They don't get those illegal guns at the gun shop at the corner or from a registered FFL dealer who has to account to the government for all the guns he buys and sells. Does anyone think that when the UK banned firearms, they didn't use the firearm registry that was in place? I really don't think the US will take away my guns, but I don't like taking that risk neither.

 

[cmcleod]

Stephen to answer your question, I am refering to Automatic weapons. Not semi-automatic weapons.

Due to the recent mass tragedys with gun violence, the banning of large magazines are getting the ax, and personally I dont know why anyone would NEED the large round magazines.?? I would imagine those that feel that way, imagine the bad guy is going to outnumber them and they are going to have the upper hand when it comes to self defense, BUT!!!?? will that BE? its not something one can be assured of, calculate or predict. I'll leave it at that.

John L.. a crooked government. Ruled by men elected by the people. That is the history of what men have chosen throughout time. So who is to blame? They or we the people? Equal Rights. Do victims receive the same rights as those who commit the crimes. NO! I can attest to that one wihtout a hint of hesitation, but none of this is my problem.

anyways..thanks for sharing. I did really GET what you were saying and I so get you returning to a place where you can find some spiritual substance.!!

I know those who have been in the military and have seen war say they don't have an issue with defending themselves, taking another life. its war..the enemy has to be taken out. It is in defending our country and that is in the truths of the honor of being in the military and not a badge of testitucular greatest to spout about. Most don't. War is hell from those I have sat and listened to, who have been willing to share even a little of their stories. Those who havent' done so, I would offer them to reflect on that action before spouting about killing this bastard or that bastard. That is nonsense talking. Till you've stood in someone elses shoes..had a gun on someone and have had no reason to NOT shoot..to want to kill someone..don't go there.

What happened to me was in 1984. I have never shared what happened with anyone. Only a few knew, those involved. I have been with Marlin for 12 years, and only yesterday did what I have carried in my heart come spilling forth. He said it must have been on my mind a lot. I said NO, it was as far back in the reaches of my mind as it could go..till yesterday. And in reflecting on the responses I've read here, I'm not willing to lay it out for the universe to receive. It shall return to where it had been..if that is even possible now. But at least I was able to release it a little. Not sure it if helped or not, but I did let it go, although still painful and the tears filled with a stinging pain.. it came and it leaves again.

Cathleen

 

[cmcleod]

FYI On Sunday on 60 minutes the newest laws in Conneticut will be featured and also the parents of the children murdered in the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy.(* a mere few months after that horrific incident)

Cathleen

 

[digger]

OBVIOUSLY a subtle hint with a picture didn't work!!!

So, Read the rules for the Sand Box.
Somewhere to post off topic and yak... <font color="ff0000">Please, NO POLITICS, RELIGION, SMUT OR OTHER POTENTIALLY DIVISIVE POSTINGS. These posts will be deleted.</font>

Stick with the Thread title, orrrrrrr!

I haven't used the Button of mass Destruction in a while, but I'm ready!