Ford Truck Help

[vthomley]

I am looking at buying one of the following.



Advise on this website is awesome! So I thought I would look for some more.


I am looking at a '95 F-250 XLT Std Cab 2wd 7.3D Auto Trans with a 3.55 rear 212k miles. This thing had a 5th wheel hitch in it. This is fron a private user, an aquantice of a friend. 2 tone grey color.

And I am looking at a '97 F-350 Crew Cab Long Box 4x4 7.3D Atuo trans with 4.10 Rear 240k miles. This has a topper on, seems to have been on all its life. I can see some fishing stickers have been removed from some of the windows, maybe this thing pulled a boat. Bright blue color

I can buy the '95 for $3200 maybe $3500. I can get the '97 for $6500.

I live in Western Wisconsin, the bodies of each reflect that, they are are comparable, some rust around the rear wheel wells, etc. Although the inside of the box on the F-350 is in excellent condition.

I have a 36' travel trailer which I pulled with this '97 last summer - amazing power and pulling ability versus a Chev truck with a 6.0 gas!

The '97 would obivously fit my family of 4, it needs 2 new front tires within the next year or so, they are worn on the insides.

Front tires on the 2wd are new rear are like new.

Any advise you can give would be greatly appreciated!

Here's a couple pics of each.

 

[kweaver]

Wisconsin = 4x4
Towing = 4x4
Family = 4x4

Pump Prices = 2 wheel drive
Repairs = 2 wheel drive
Daily driver = 2 wheel drive

A friend in the middle means one less Xmas card when the breakdowns occur.

It's your $$ either way.

 

[kweaver]

... another ponder ...

That 4.10 will pull good but burn more "carbon" than the 3.55 ... and IF they pass that STUPID Carbon Tax there's another minus in the operating cost of the 4x4.

... but hey , I've got two 4x4's that I keep my 10D in all the way

 

[snicklas]

Vincent,

Both would be excellent trucks. The miles are not to bad on either... a 7.3PSD with proper maintenance can 500k+ Living in the north I would vote for the 4x4 (obvious reasons) and with towing that heavy of a trailer the 4.10 rear gear will help pull the load better, but it will limit top end on the interstate.... Both have the E4OD automatic transmission. I would see what history these have. An E4OD that has been treated well all its life (Extra Coolers and Fluid Changed OFTEN) will live a fairly long life. If it has just been driven and not serviced, they can be a week point. A Heavy Duty Built E4OD from a company such as BTS (Brians Truck Stop) is something like $3000 but they are warrented to any miles and any horsepower, so they are worth the pricetag. The 97 is the last year of what is refered to the OBS body (Original Body Style) in Late 98 the SuperDuty was released...... so they aer somewhat in demand, expecially the CC 4X4...... IF it were me, I would probally go for the 97.... they had the best updates for that body style, and it is a good looking truck.

Sorry for the long reply, but Ford Diesel Trucks are my other hobby..... I have and 03 Excursion with the 6.0 PSD.

I might recommend you take a look at

www.oilburners.net and
www.superdutydiesel.com

These are 2 very good resources of info on the Ford diesels, I am a moderator on oilburners, BTW - While I am typing this we are having some issues and the sites are temporarly down.....

Any questions, please feel free to ask or E-Mail (In Profile)....

Scott

 

[vthomley]

Ken, thanks for the brutally honest responses!
Scott, Thank you too! I'll look at those websites, yet somehow I'll get some work done today.

I am leaning towards the BIG '97 just need to justify to myself the additional 3K...

Both times I test drove the'95 I said, hmmm nice but I wish it was a 4x4 crew...

I am SURE my 10.5D and my 18th year old son's size 12(or whatever) will be fully inserted way too many times.

more pics...gota love the BLUE color. I took the topper off to haul the Arctic Cat in the bed.

 

[kweaver]

Vincent - Somebody had to shake you outta yer dream ! Sounds like you made your mind up b4 you asked.
<font size="-2">I like the <font color="0000ff">Blue</font><font color="000000"> too.</font></font>

 

[vthomley]

3K more is just tough to swallow... Guess that's the hardest part.

The thing won't fit into my garage either - just have to park it in the 30x40 shed with the CUB CADETS. Hmmm, might have to part with a Cub or 2 to help cover the cost of the truck.

 

[dfrisk]

VINCE - The '95 is a nice looking truck, for most of your camper towing it would work fine, except as you say, when there's more than two people going camping. I can't recall ever seeing an OBS that color combination.
I've done a bit of towing with My '96 PSD, it's a reg. cab 4X4 F-250, stock 7.3 PSD, 5-speed manual, 3.55 gears, Alcoa wheels like those two. It's Bright red! Close to IH 2150 red. I've towed grossing over 17,000# and had NO problem running 60 to 75 MPH, never had to shift on any hills. When I commuted to work with it, 60 to 75 miles one way I'd get 18-20 MPG and 16+ to 18 in winter. It has 298,500 miles on it right now. Still runs like brand new.

To add to what Scott's said, there's advantages to either truck. The reg. cab 2WD will be easier to be a daily driver & park, there's no center carrier bearing on the driveshaft, SWB Supercabs and longer had them. Probably rides better being 2WD & 3/4 ton. Depending on whether it has the Bench seat or 40-20-40 seat with the AT & no 4WD the center seat position may not be that bad for someone to sit if they are less than 6 ft tall.

The '97 being a 4-door fits your family, but fits in NO garage I've ever seen attached to a house around here! Probably a good thing to park it in a detached garage anyhow, diesel exhaust is NASTY. The frt axle is a DANA 60 "MONO-beam", durable, but probably why it needs frt tires. My F-250 Twin-Traction Beam actually wears the rear tires faster than the fronts! Also, the '97 will not fit comfortably into normal parking spaces, too long. The 4X4 makes more sense in Wisconsin, winter snow & all, 2WD PSD's are notorious for being "helpless", too much front weight. Also if the '97 has the manual t-case & hubs, the low range without the hubs locked is GREAT for maneuvering around while parking trailers.
Hopefully both have twin fuel tanks, BIG frt tank on mine I can get 22 gal. in, and 20 in the rear. The E4OD has a higher over-drive ratio than the ZF 5-speed so highway MPG should be 20+ on the '95 not loaded or towing, and 16-17 on the '97.
There were some substantial changes made to the '97 PSD's; different head castings, and some modifications made to the block. The '97's are claimed to be the best performing stock OBS PSD's. And the BTS E4OD Scott mentions will be The LAST transmission you'll ever buy.

If you have ANY more questions just ask.

 

[vthomley]

Dennis, thanks, I am definitely leaning towards the '97. I mean massively tilted towards the '97. Coco our dog would love me, crew cab, room any passenger to stretch legs, etc. I've had the front seat all the way back, then got in the back seat and there is more than plenty of leg room.

The '95 has a bench seat.

I don't think this would be a daily driver, I own 3 grand prix's, 2 '97s and a '03, which reminds me both '97 have current issues... Maybe the truck would be a daily driver...

 

[snicklas]

Dennis-

Diesel exhaust is NASTY?!?!?!?

Say it ain't so..... I would much rather smell the diesel exhaust from my truck that the paint thinner smell a gasser....... besides gas stinks alot more than diesel.........

I really diesels and like the smell of the exhaust..... not the black clouds of death the kiddies think is cool, just a good old oilburner earning its keep!!!

I know alot of guys that do the D-60 swap, but do not understand why... all the reasons they list, I do not have with the TTB 4x4.....

Vince -

I agree with the parking and manuverability.... I love my Ex, but driving it to work and having to park in the parking garage can be fun, especially if someone in a big vehicle is parked in the "wrong" place..... I have a car that I much rather park in the parking garage..... but my Ex does fit in the garage at home..... it takes up the whole bay, but it does fit.....

 

[dfrisk]

SCOTT - My PSD sleeps in an insulated garage, it's very tight, and when I start it I have to back out right away and leave the door open for a minute or two. If I walk back in the closed shop for any length of time the splitting head-ach starts in less than five minutes.

Back in about Dec.'68 Dad bought a 4010 deere diesel, We always ground ear corn for the cattle. One Saturday We thought We'd warm-up the 4010 instead of grinding with the FARMALL M. The crib had overhead grain bins over the driveway, and the exh. extension on the 4010 ended about 6-8 inches beneath the bottoms of the floor joists for the bins. With the 4010 running @ PTO RPM but very small load it took about 4-5 minutes even with the driveway doors open to gas both of Us out. We finished grinding with the M. The 4010 was NEVER hooked to the grinder again.

The only diesel I've been around that NOBODY could stand the exh. fumes from was the 903 Cummins in the semi-tractor I drove. In cold weather the iron bands in the pistons which held the piston rings would cause the pistons to contract, and they'd belch out this constant gray-blue steam of smoke from the exhaust. Imagine a real cold PSD at first start-up only 100+ times worse!

I will say one thing about a diesel, I've heard LOTS of horror stories about fires when gassing up cars, trucks, etc. But with the very low flash point of diesel fuel I can't say I've EVER heard of a fire while fueling up a diesel of any kind.

VINCE - I've ridden in a couple 4-door F-series OBS's, and yes, they have about the same passenger space as a BIG limousine. Before I got my F-250, I'd had two F-150 SWB reg. cab 4X4's, a 'used '78 I bought in '80 for 7 yrs, and an '87 I bought new for nine years. When I got my PSD it took me a LONG time to get used to the fact I couldn't do U-turns just about anywhere I wanted. I ordered out the '87 and the PSD both, waited 13 weeks for the PSD to come in. I get kinda "FUSSY" about my pickups.

OH, International unveiled it's new TerraSTAR class 4/5 light medium duty truck yesterday in St. Louis, same class as the F-450/550. If ANYTHING could get Me to part with my old PSD it would be That thing! Hope this link works:
http://ltenews.navistar.com/m/cd8Qdluwshs6...QGEa3NNxjO-dDvg

 

[snicklas]

Dennis -

I understand about the closed up garage... I normally start up adn pull it out fairly quickly.... fortunatly it doen't smoke when I first start it.... I know the older diesels were very obnoxious with the exhaust and fumes the would belch out...

I had not thought about the fueling issue, but you are right, we had someone that was seriously injured when and explosion during filling happend.... and I an very gulty of pulling up to a diesel pump, engine idleing, pump in 30 gallons of fuel, go in and pay, come back out and leave and think nothing of leaving it running.... I NEVER leave a gasser running.....

 

[kide]

Vince:
Keep in mind that with all else equal, the 4.10 rear end will put 15% more revolutions per mile on the engine.. The '97 with the 240,000 miles is equal to having 276,000 if it had been equipped with a 3.55 and turned that many revolutions..

 

[vthomley]

Diesel smell - I mean perfume. Half the reason I go to tractor or truck pulls!

I'm taking the '97 to a shop tomorrow morning! I asked 3 local friends and they all pointed to the same guy. Luckily I camped right next to him last year. So tomorrow morning at 8am it will be on his lift getting a once over.

 

[bnolte]

Another caveat about either the 95 or the '97, but particularly the '95 is body rust. A bit of rust around the wheel wells is one thing, but the REAL rust problems I had with my old '93 F-150 were things like frame cross members, gas tanks, brake lines, and even the spring brackets. The frame cross members were rusted paper thin, and I had to replace the rear spring brackets by the time I got rid of it in 2005. The '94 I replaced it with wasn't nearly as bad, but it shares the same body style as the '93 and the '95 you are looking at. I would crawl underneath both of them and evaluate the rust situation honestly before buying any Ford truck from that era.

 

[dfrisk]

BRUCE - Very true about the chassis rust. SON has a '93 Lightning p/u and it too has chassis & body rust issues. Both rear spring mounts have been replaced, not really a hard job, just messy. And both frt radius arm brackets & coil spring buckets need replacing. The radius arms themselves were replaced about 3-4 yrs ago. The OBS trucks really aren't any worse at rusting than any other truck that vintage, they're just getting that old. If anything I'd say the Fords are actually better than the GM and Dodge trucks. I've seen some pretty ratty looking Ram's in the last few years.

The 4x4 has probably been driven on salted roads more than the 2wd, so may have more rust. The chassis components on the 250 & 350's are all made from thicker steel than the 150 components, so hold up much better over time.

I started shopping for my F250 in January, '96, local Ford dealer had two F250 4X4's with manual trans on the lot at that time. I spent more time UNDER those trucks than I did looking at their top sides. They both had been driven around the lots when snow was removed, road tests, and they had a LOT of under body surface rust. I knew I wasn't buying one of them. I ordered my truck in March '96 and it was delivered to the dealer on Saturday night June 22nd '96, and I picked it up Thursday night June 27th. I saw it the first time Sunday afternoon June 23rd. The AutoArmor rust proofing was applied on clean bare steel and the paint protectant was put on also. I've never actually "waxed" my truck, but when it's clean, the paint still shines like new, and bright red fades REALLY bad. My other two cars also have AutoArmor on them, it's not cheap, but it really works! The whole truck frame & body had been coils of steel at FMC just 2 weeks before. I even talked to the owner of the AA shop before & after my truck was rust-proofed.

I had my '87 F150 ordered special, but had a different rust-proofing applied. It didn't work. I even took it back and had them spray certain areas a second time where My '78 F150 rusted thru before it was four years old. And the biggest mistake I made with the '87 was getting a free FORD repaint on it about 1993. After that, any chip in the paint became an instant rust blossom. The E-coat primers the auto companies use now are unbelievably tough, that's why all the big-3 had paint adhesion problems when they first started using e-coat.

Rust is a very big problem here in the snow belt, you just have to plan decades in advance to slow it down. I tend to keep my vehicles, especially trucks a long time, rust-proofing saves a LOT of head aches years later.

 

[vthomley]

Well I had the '97 F-350 at a shop and there are a couple issues. Nothing Major, just front Universal Joints, front brakes and rotors, and a Crankcase Sensor.

I am awaiting an estimate. These are things I could replace myself, yet I would rather not.

Then later today I can test my bargaining skills... I have to be a little bit careful for my son works at the place who is selling this F-350.

I also got a message from the '95 F-250 guy. I think I will NOT be making his day...

 

[dfrisk]

VINCE - Have the ball joints replaced in the axle too. I had MOOG greasable's installed in my truck about 7 yrs ago, supposedly they're made in China now too. And I'd suggest your local Ford Store for the frt brake rotors & pads. Some aftermarket pads dust up those pretty ALCOA wheels pretty bad.
CRANKCASE sensor puzzles Me. Could it have been Cam Position Sensor? or Crankcase Oil temp. sensor? The Cam pos. sensor reads the windows in the cam drive gear so the engine mgmt. computer knows where the engine is in the firing order. Sometimes it get "Confused" and the engine dies, and normally starts right back up. Pretty common problem. The oil temp sensor determines whether or not the computer closes the exh. back pressure valve in the turbo outlet. When cold, the valve closes and holds heat in the engine for faster warm-up. My truck has a straight pipe exhaust, when that valve closes it sounds like a slightly muffled jet engine! Another benefit of the straight pipe is you can really hear the turbo spool up, I've driven in below zero weather with the passenger window open a couple inches just so I can hear the whistle better.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Just for Denny...

 

[snicklas]

Dennis,

Another thing that can be done with the EBPV is it can also be connected to a switch and it can be used as an Exhaust Brake, I know several guys that tow alot hook it up that way, they also will hook up a switch to keep the Torque Converter locked........