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Archive through August 25, 2013

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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Jim,

Sure did but not because of any other reason other than I was trying to figure out how the oil got through the crank to oil the crank pins.
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I'm still learning on this stuff.
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Jeremiah - I'm gonna have to recheck all my measurements. I'm pretty certain the 10" overall length is still correct. I'll slip a flat edge under the section over the head and measure all the way out to the curved front - and use an upright or protractor to make sure I'm square with the front this time.
Next step might be like Gerry has suggested - building a paper prototype (or stiff cardboard).
 
I am still baffled as to why my 1250 Nightmare won't start. I have no spark at the points. I have filed the points, repaired the coil wire and checked all connections. Nothing, Nicks, Nada. I am getting gasoline into the combustion chamber, because the plug was flooded, unlike before. I don't know where else to look. Is there a test for the coil? Is there a test for the condenser? I really don't want to start throwing parts at it.
 
Brian Wittman: A capacitor is not expensive, and they should be replaced every couple of years anyway (although Dennis Frisk may tell you he's still using one his father installed in 1940). The coil is fairly expensive and there are several tests available for it.

1. Do you have 12 volts at the positive terminal of the coil when the key is on? (Measure from frame to terminal.)
If so, the safeties are working and the primary circuit wiring and ignition switch are OK.

2. When the points are open, you should also see significant voltage from the negative terminal of the coil to ground; but almost zero volts when the points are closed. If you're seeing significant voltage swings as the points open and close, then the primary winding in the coil is OK. If the voltage never changes as the points open and close, something is very wrong. (It sounds to me that this is likely your situation.)

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From Kohler Service Manual TP-2379 for Kohler single cylinder engines
Note: The capacitor charges each time the points open, its purpose is to keep the current across the points to a minimum, thus preserving the points. You should NOT see much spark at the points, just a little when they open, as the juice is supposed to be diverted to the "condenser." When the points close, the capacitor is discharged.

To investigate further, turn off the key, disconnect the battery and get a Digital Multimeter that can read capacitance, or grab an analog meter with an Ohm scale, preferably witb a 1 kilohm range.

3. Disconnect both terminals at the coil (+) and (-) as well as the spark plug wire and measure the ohms across the primary winding, from the (+) to the (-), it should be very low, just a few ohms, since you're simply reading the resistance of a length of wire; then I believe if you measure from the negative terminal to the terminal for the spark plug you should get a slightly lower reading, since I think the coils are fewer and the wire is thicker. If your meter shows either open or a dead short for either of these tests, the coil is burned up. (You might also try reading from the case to each of the terminals to see if one of the windings has shorted to ground.
Note: I think there is a resistor wired in series with the primary winding inside the coil, so the primary will definitely read higher than the secondary winding at the spark plug terminal.

4. If the coil checks out, and I hope it does, you can test the capacitor thus:

For an analog meter, touch the terminal to the case or other ground to discharge the capacitor and then hook up the leads with the meter set to a fairly high range for ohms, you should see the needle jump up and then "subside" back to zero as the capacitor charges through the meter. If the needle fails to move significantly, or you think you missed it, discharge the capacitor, and try it again using a different range on the meter, I think higher is better than lower, but my memory could be failing me.

On a Digital Multimeter, set the meter to read capacitance, discharge the condenser, and take a measurement.

5. If the primary ignition circuit checks out, then the problem must be in the secondary. Swap out the spark plug wire, and/or try a new spark plug.

I believe a bad condenser will typically show itself as weak spark before failing completely.
 
JEREMIAH - Now THAT's just NOT True! I installed that condenser some time in the 1970's. Last set of Kohler points & condenser I bought cost $11 for the condenser & $14 for the points. I see Charlie sells them for $14.50 each now. MAN... when will MTD stop raising parts prices?!?! New coil is $38. But that's cheaper than Onan parts.

The point I'm trying to make is that even OEM parts are made off-shore now and the quality & life expectancy is MUCH LESS now days. The points/condenser in my K321 in the 72 lasted only about 130-140 operating hours till they needed replacing. The points/condenser in my old Super H I put in back in the 1970's still work fine. I haven't started that tractor since April and I bet it would start right up on the second revolution and run fine. The old parts made in the USA are much better than the new imported parts. IH used to recommend tune-ups every 250 hours and many people used to push that out to 400-500 hours, now days you can not do that, the engine just won't run that long with the new imported parts.

Since the automotive industry has gone all electronic ignition, coil-on-plug, etc, points/condenser ignition parts have drastically reduced quality. The manufacturers have taken the life right out of them.
 
Brian W,

Your coil is likely fried from inadvertantly leaving the switch on while you transported it. If the points happened to be closed while the switch was left on, the coil is likely toast. Jeremiah gives good instructions on how to check your coil and I think there's a FAQ on that subject as well. Hope you get your 1250 going again soon.
 
Jeremiah I was ready to believe you about Dennis's 1940 part. LOL
 
Dennis Frisk: I stand corrected.
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Please note, however, that I DID get the point of your original post: that the parts manufactured when point/condenser ignition systems were being manufactured are better than the crap you find now-a-days. (Although, I have had good luck with the "Blue Streak" line available at Advance Auto.) There have been changes in manufacturing standards since the "good old days" --everything needs to be lead-free, corrosives are frowned upon, etc, etc. There is nothing more to a capacitor than the plate material (typically "tin") and the dielectric. The formulation changes have likely been mandated by government edict, but I'm only speculating.

Edit: Brian, check the output from your alternator and rectifier to make sure your battery is charging. It's not shown in Kohler's depiction of the ignition system, but there is an alternator in your tractor, which combined with a rectifier charges your battery. (The rectifier converts the AC voltage/current produced by the alternator to DC voltage/current for use by the battery.) You should still get fire at the plug, even with a bad rectifier, but the battery will run down quickly and require an external charge.

Good luck isolating the problem (I hope its not the coil, but I'm afraid Ron may be correct in his diagnosis.)
 
Jeremiah C.
You might want to check out the wiring diagram for a 1250 before mentioning an alternator being on the tractor.
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Brian W - just go pick up that 149 for cheap, and use the coil off it to check out your situation. If you swap the coil and the Nightmare starts and runs, well, you just got a cheap 149 parts unit. If that doesn't work then swap the condensor. Nothing like having some spare parts laying around, and it's usually easier to swap the parts instead of doing the analysis and testing - just to find out that's what you need to swap out anyway. I know, I know, the 149 doesn't have an AQS engine, but it does have some parts to swap. And according to at least a few postings, the old parts are gonna be better than the new parts you go buy anyway.

Jeremiah - I still gotta re-measure the overall length of the heat baffle.
 
Case in point.
I just got a restored 129 that does not run. It had a shiny new coil= no spark.
Swapped in a crusty old coil that was on a donor motor = spark.
I'll test the newer coil later.
 
Charlie: The item labeled "stator" is what I know as an alternator. It produces an electric current that alternates in polarity, which is why the rectifier is required. The rectifier serves to "right" the negative voltage polarity to produce a full wave of positive voltage output, or unregulated Direct Current to charge the battery. Whether you call it a stator or an alternator is a matter of semantics to me.

Edit 1: Harry, I'm waiting on you.

Edit 2: Actually, thinking about it, I believe that the "stator" is one half of the alternator, the part that is stationary; the other part is the ring of magnets affixed to the flywheel. The current is induced when the magnets move past the stator's coils.
 
Jeremiah C.
The fact remains, that we can't be telling guys to check things that are not there.
Many have manuals and wiring diagrams that do not show an alternator.
If we start calling things what they are or not, and in your opinion something else, it's only going to confuse some.
Lets stick to what they are and not what we/you consider them to be and all will be well in the Cub world.
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If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

"is a matter of semantics to me",
is a blanket repudiation of precise communication.
 
Charlie or someone.
What is the pulley part number for the two idler pulleys for the mower deck on a 982.
It's the two that is at the right angle. The belt that goes from the front PTO to the deck. The two small idler pulleys. The ones in front.
Part number?
Oh geez. Am I posting this in the right section?
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Kraig, Try as I might, I just can't seem to make sense out of how that subframe mounts on the O.
The slotted end slips over the rockshaft on the outside of the frame by the footrest. I assume that is where it is supposed to mount, but when I raise the front up, none of the holes line up. Do I need to drill additional holes to make this work or am I missing some pieces here.

Same problem when I try to mount the sub on the 70. I slips on the rockshaft inside the frame on it but them binds on the deck lift arms so that ain't right either.

Looking at the parts sketch you posted it looks like I am missing some parts like #20-23-19. Got me stumped!!
Perhaps someone had an O w/blade and can post up some pic's.
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David, check out Kraigs post from Monday August 26th, 1:32 PM...it says you need to drill a hole on each side of the frame on an Original if you want to use the NF bolt on type subframe. It shows the picture and where to drill it.

The "common" subframe used on an Original for the snowblade has the curved subframe towards the front of the blade. They also made an early non trip blade that has a totally different frame to it. What you have NOW is for a narrow frame 70, 100, 71, 102, 122, or 123. On these models (if you don't have the extension straps for the frame) you can use a "Pin on" deck mule drive pulley bracket and drill the necessary holes in it (you may not need to drill holes, not sure)
Hope this helps!
 
Shultzie,
Click the Parts Look Up above, enter in 982.
Click select assembly, then click attachments and that will give ya everything you need.
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David, if your 70 still has the mule drive on the front (It was there last Saturday) you can use that subframe with the mule drive brackets without drilling holes on your 70. I think I have those extension pieces as well in that assembly picture #19 but haven't a clue how you would use them. maybe in lieu of the mule drive?
 

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