Archive through August 21, 2005

[rchristensen]

How can so many people be so wrong???

If Mechanical PTO's were any good they would be on all the new Cubs.

Electrical PTO's properly installed will normally outlast the engine with probably only a simple brake flange adjustment in your lifetime. The have a good positive brake.

Mechanical PTO'S will require several rebuilds, constant adjustment, many thrust buttons (unless you buy an expensive brass button), and if you forget to replace the thrust button you will be replacing a lot of other parts. If you don't have the later model mechanical PTO with the brake you have a major Safety issue.

Price wise you can buy a good used Electrical PTO for about the same price as a used Mechanical PTO which you will probably need to rebuild before using.

Removing an Electrical PTO is a simple unbolt while a Mechanical PTO removal can turn into a wrestling match or dynamite.

If you look back through the archives you will probably see 50 problems with Mechanical PTO's to one problem with an electrical PTO (Which is normally easily fixed with the brake flange adjustment), probably the most posted picture on this Forum is Steve Blunier's picture on how to install the anti rattle springs, which are probably missing on 50 percent of all Mechanical PTO's.

As for slipping the PTO clutch, just idle the engine, engage the PTO and give her full throttle and go. I can't see anybody engaging a PTO with the tiller in the ground, the snow blower full into a snow bank, the chipper fully loaded, or the mower deck already in foot high grass.

As for Starter Generators and their expensive voltage regulators, you don't see them on many new products do you????

Come on now were supposed to be helping people into the 21'st century not back into prehistoric times.

 

[dseckel]

Kraig,

It is very different than the picture. It has no wheels, only a front roller and skids on each side. It is a side discharge, both sides are flat. It has separate guards over the side blade pulleys, the top of the deck is flat, all running gear is above the deck. I guess it is the 42". The PTO belt broke, it was an IH belt. I took it to the local John Deere place and he sold me what he thought was the correct replacement. I should have kept the old belt, but I didn't. The new belt is too short, looks like it needs another inch or two. Sorry for being vague, I will take pictures of the deck if needed.

 

[glee]

What's the difference in a starter/generator and just a starter? I have a 1650 and some 1250's and a 100. What do they have on them? Should I be looking to make some changes?

 

[bmcmeen]

Richard C. -

I've asked myself that very question, but since we can't get political here...

Curt R. -

Whaddya mean the manual is vague on governor adjustments? Both my <FONT COLOR="ff0000">I</FONT><FONT COLOR="000000">H</FONT> and Kohler manuals describe EXACTLY how to do it - with pictures!

 

[kmcconaughey]

Matt, )

Richard, All my Cubs have mechanical PTO's and S/Gs, it's what I'm used to. I know how they work and how to fix them. I think that the reason that electric PTOs are used on new stuff is that they are easy to build with safety shutoffs all that is needed is a cutout switch to make it stop, where a mechanical PTO would need a series of linkages and springs to make it auto shut off if one got off the seat. I have mixed feelings about many safe guards that have mandated to be built in. They don't replace common sense and proper training and IMO can cause people to become too reliant on them instead of thinking about what they are doing. Here's a hypothetical scenario: a young man learns on a newer tractor and gets used to the PTO shutting off when he gets off the seat and uses that to shut off the PTO rather then manually shutting it off. One day he helps out a neighbor/relative/friend/whoever that is unable to mow his/her lawn for whatever reason, and mows the lawn with that persons older tractor that was built before all the safety guards were required, or even the same model tractor but had the safe guards disabled due to a malfunction or just disabled. As he is mowing he has to get off to move some object he didn't notice before starting to mow, (granted, he should have walked the lawn prior to mowing especially if it was an unfamiliar lawn), he assumes that the PTO will automatically shut off if he gets off the seat and proceeds to do so, even if he was told otherwise his habit that he learned because of the auto shut down would lead him to just get off the tractor. Hopefully in the hypothetical scenario the operator was unhurt and realized what a stuipid thing he just did and did not repeat it. I would hope that anyone that has a tractor with the safety switches does not become reliant on them and still retains their common sense. I'm not saying I'm against safety switches or other safe guards just that it is possible that they have some downsides like making people lazy. But then there are a few people out there that have to be saved from themselves........

BTW, I have actually seen people just get off their tractor when the PTO was on and used the seat safety switch to shut the PTO off. (

(Message edited by kmcconaughey on August 22, 2005)

 

[craymond]

Bryan,
For the larger engines it mentions turning the shaft for the K161 the IH manual doesn't say anything. Basically it says put the govenor arm on and adjust the arm that holds the throttle cable while never mentioning that if you don't rotate the shaft the right way in the first place you can adjust for speed your entire life and never get anywhere.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Bryan, )

David S., sounds like a 42" I forgot those were still being used on the 1x8/9 series. Does it look like this except without the gauge wheels?

 

[kmcconaughey]

David S., I believe the proper belt for your 108 and 42" deck would be PN:490489-R2, the same one that was discussed at the bottom of this page.

 

[bmcmeen]

Curt R. -

If you check the FAQ, we have a link for the FREE download of the Kohler manual. True, the old "speed disc" style only gets a page and a half whereas the new style gets two pages, but still...

NO excuses for not having the Kohler manual!

 

[rchristensen]

Kraig
I agree with the safety training needed for everyone. Should we learn without safety switches??? That may be debatable, all I know is a lot of tractors I have bought have the safety switches bypassed and I restore them before I use the tractor, that is all except the seat switch. On my Mechanical PTO tractors I convert them to the later style brake system.

 

[mmasheris]

I finally went down to my local Dealer Ralph Helm inc and doccumented the serial# for his Original #535 they sold it new and got it back as a trade in.

 

[bmcmeen]

Mike M. -

LOL, I was wondering when they'd finally let someone scrub the paint off...

I was over there Saturday afternoon - they were kind enough to put a new pair of Stihl shades in their mailbox for me...

 

[kmcconaughey]

Richard, Some saftey switches are a good idea like the one on the brake/clutch pedal that prevents starting unless the pedal is depressed and perhaps one that won't allow a machine equipped with an electric PTO clutch to start if the PTO is switched on. This would be one place where I agree an electric PTO clutch could be preferred over a mechanical one, (Though a switch could easily be installed on the lever to prevent starting of a tractor with a mechanical PTO if the PTO is engaged.) I still like my mechanical PTO. )

 

[bmcmeen]

Kraig -<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

(Though a switch could easily be installed on the lever to prevent starting of a tractor with a mechanical PTO if the PTO is engaged.)<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote><font size="-1">Yes, that'd be called a 1x8/1x9

So by your own admission, that would be an improvement. Thus weakening your "Decline" graphic

</font>

 

[kmcconaughey]

Bryan, and the 1x8/9 would be a wide frame, I only have narrow frames of the 1x5 flavor and one Original that is disassembled for a refurb, (unless you count the various pieces of parts tractors I have then I have portions of a 149, a 1x7 and a couple of tranny-less 104s and some more 1x5 parts) I don't recall ever operating a 1x8/9. )

 

[kmcconaughey]

Ken U., I finally bought that book of yours, that I saw at Menard's, on the 1955-1985 IH tractors. I was thinking it was on the letter series but that was a different book. Great book! Hopefully you'll get your $0.60 soon. )

 

[till]

Richard,

I just made that easy break ajustment on my electric PTO. I have to say the electic is the way to go. Now if I could just get on that worked on 600 VDC.

 

[craymond]

I know I'm awful new to this but having rebuilt a mechanical PTO just the day before yesterday I have to say I'm pretty impressed with it for simplicty, ease of use, and good operation. I definately like being able to ease it on, that'll be handy because I'll frequently be using mine to mow in very high grass.

 

[dfrisk]

RICHARD C. - You've never plugged up a snow blower with heavy wet snow before have You? The sudden JERK when the elec. clutch engages is what I like least about them. It's not a problem on My 982 when I flip the switch to start the mower, but I don't think it would do the blower or the tractor either one any good to try to start a plugged blower.
I agree the voltage regulators for CC's are VERY expensive. I used to have to replace the one on My 72 about every two years. But I relocated it to the back of the tractor under the seat inside the frame. Away from heat & vibration and it's lasted over 10 yrs.... Almost as long as the one on the 129 which is located in about the same spot.
The clutch & PTO starting switches are O-K, but the "No Cut in Reverse" I always thought was stupid. I know why the companies had to add it but it's still DUMB, Just like the switch to kill the PTO when You get off the seat. Reminds Me of a news story from 5-6 yrs ago in Madison, WI. First snow of the year was wet & heavy. All the snow blowers had been parked all summer and were dirty & rusty. They treated SEVEN PEOPLE in Emergency rooms that day for sticking their hands into the moving equipment of the snowblowers. When They engaged the equipment the augers & impellers just "Disappeared". Yes, a safety switch could have prevented some of those injuries..... but the lack of switches WASN'T The problem.

 

[bmcmeen]

You mean folks don't make sure things are in A-OK shape before they go flipping switches or engaging levers??? When I hear the belt start squealing, I know I've got a plugged thrower, so I shut it all down and clear it out THEN start it and engage the PTO. Manual OR electric. Same with the mower, low speed, engage while on the driveway or previously cut grass, then head into the uncut grass.

<font size="-2">Hmmm - do ya bury the snowthrower in a snowdrift THEN turn it on?</font>