Archive through April 03, 2012

[digger]

Tom F.
We do have FAQ's ya know!
http://cubfaq.com/questions.html

38. How do I install the self locking bearing collar on my mechanical PTO?

Of course no one reads them except the idiot that put them together!

 

[kmcconaughey]

Side by side photo of oil pans.

And some by themselves.

 

[hydroharry]

Jeremiah - well that sounds like some early hot rodding days. Ya live and learn. You've overcome the hardest part tho - that's knowing that you need more info, and you're being cautious as you proceed. I remember the 1st time I de-carboned a Kohler and wondering if it would even run when I was done. It was an old 12hp in a 122. I was extremely careful scraping the carbon off, trying to make sure none drop in that little groove area where the piston meets the cylinder wall when it's at TDC. Ya need a vacuum to keep it clean. Once you done 2 or 3 of them it becomes alot easier of course, and pretty soon you'll be doing them in your sleep. Just go out and get a half dozen more Cubs so you can practice more.

Jeff B - nice job on the head and oil pan. I don't think I've ever seen a pan look that good.

Kraig - Oh "Really" Great One Keeper of the Photos - You're the best. I can see now the flat pan is deeper than the dished pan when compared at the thinner/flat point. I guess that's how they make the capacity the same. I also see what are almost or sorta like legs on the dished pan, and they are not as pronounced on the flat pan. This is apparently how they maintain the same height of the engine for mounting, no matter which pan is used. Got to give it to those engineers at Kohler. But I also wonder why they did the flat pan for the K241 since the dished pan provide less chance of oil starvation when used on slopes. Thanks again Kraig - you are the best.

Larry K - I don't know if there is a best place to get a set of points but if you don't go local then I'd definitely support one of the sponsors on here (the boxes at the top of the intro page).
Also, Matt's instructions on static timing are great, but you can still do it the old fashioned way using a feeler gauge and setting them to .020, or the really old fashion way using a match book cover (if they still exist), but that will usually only get the timing sorta close and maybe even worse than where you're at now. Matt suggests many times it's not even close. So you must use an old fashion timing light and view the timing marks thru the site hole on the side of the shroud. Hopefully someone put chalk on your marks which should be S or SP for spark (20degrees BTDC) and T for TDC. When you get the points it's a really good idea to get the points push rod and well, and hope it will still slide out thru the hole really easy so you can install the new one. And get a new points cover gasket since the old one almost always is torn. And be prepared to drop the screws that hold the cover on, and hunt for them laying along the inside of the frame.

Charlie - I don't like disagreeing with you but I will this time. I refer to and probably read an FAQ every other time I log in. How else do yo think I can try to answer the questions on here, and I think only one part of 2 FAQs are info I may have provided (although there is a link to a link to one that has my picture. I wonder if Kraig knows which one that might be).

Tom F - that locking collar has a small indentation/dot area. Use a punch and tap it in the opposite direction of rotation of the crankshaft for removal. It should move about 1/2" and be loose on the bearing, then you can slide it off the bearing. Once you have it off you can use your 3-jaw puller to remove the bearing, Then clean up your crankshaft with emery cloth and make sure there are no burrs before attempting to install your new bearing and collar. Either follow the Service Manual instructions or use an FAQ as Charlie has provided. There is an FAQ for rebuilding the clutch as well. Good luck with it. It's pretty easy to do these once you've done 3 or 4, but the 1st time can be a little difficult to understand.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (but bearing don't last as long)

 

[hydroharry]

Alan C - were you able to see your valves and determine whether one had the tit (Don T's term) in the up position, and the other one in the down position. The one that's down is your problem. Getting access to it is the hardest part of the problem, If you can get it to move at all by prying on it (once you have access) with a fine pick, or anything to get it to come up. You should begin to be prepared to replace it. I'd recommend going with a used valve that has a tit that moves up and down quite freely, or you might get a newer version that doesn't have the tit and works as an automatic release when the engine is shut off. Other wise if you get the tit up, clean it off good, and oil it lightly, and begin to work it up and down a little at a time to begin with, it will probably work ok until you leave it for awhile, and someone comes along and pulls up on the release lever on the side of your frame, and this causes it to stick down again. Good luck with it.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (and they have all kinds of valves that get sticky)

 

[dsterley]

got a couple pick of my buddys 1650 with 180 hrs (on the clock anyway) but the more we play with it the more i think its right, it dont look the greatest but every thing feels like a new tractor

 

[snicklas]

Hydro Harry,

I believe mine has what is left of a Series II (I bought it with a blown engine, for the tiller and parts). Dad's has a M18 in it, that replaced what I believe was a Series I. (He blew the right cylinder mowing a ditch. We didn't know the angle issues at the time).

I am sure there are other differences. Both of ours have the "Quietline" style hour meter in them, and everything but the engine and rims are red, engine-black, rims-white. I know that when I am looking at listings of x82's, what I listed are the 3 things that I look for clewing me in on IH vs CCC. As for the very early CCC x82's I believe were assembled from the leftover parts from Louisville, so there just about as much IH as the Pre June 81's are.... I think the first big change was the Aluminum Rear....

Also remember this on the x82's....

After the selloff CCC Made:

RED x82's to be sold at the still existing IH AG Dealers (AG selloff did not happen till 85)

YELLOW/WHITE x82's to be sold at Cub Cadet Dealers (That were just "mower" dealers, did not sell FARM tractors.... so there could be Y/W x82 that are exactly like the red ones. Except paint (White hood/sides/dash/rims, Yellow Frame, Black engine/axles) which could explain the red under black.

There are similar changes that I look for on the Quietlines, which help to determine early vs late quietline.

Some of those differences I have seen is:

Early:

Serial Number on axle - same as the wideframes

Rear Tires - have the either "diamond block" or the Z pattern rear - same as the wideframes

Steering wheel - Has the long wide spoke (normally pointing at the seat) with the IH "Tin" insert - same as the wideframes

Hydro Dump Valves - Have the manual dump valves - same as the wideframes

Late:

Serial Number on left side of frame near brake pedal - same as the x82 and later

Rear Tires - "Turf saver" - same as the x82 and later

Steering wheel - 3 equal sized spokes, with the triangular center cap with molded IH in center of cap - same as the x82 and later

Hydro Dump Valves - Have the automatic dump valves - same as the x82 and later

I am sure there are other differences besides these, but these are the easily seen. Mine is a later 1450, built in Dec '77. The wideframe in these pics was built in 72 (has non-braked PTO) and the 782 was in early 80 (Dad has the exact months)

 

[lkortkamp]

Thanks Jeff and Harry.

I'll read up on Matt's info.

Harry: I was thoroughly surprised when I was able to get the lower screw back in even with the motor at operating temp. Totally blind, feeling with fingers, presto it started right in?? Don't think my luck will hold out for the next time? I'll make sure the motor is cool!!

I check about getting the push rod too. I'll definitely go to a sponsor!

Thanks for the input guys.
Larry

 

[hydroharry]

Darren S - that would be amazing if that 1650 only had 180hrs. Lets see the insides. I'd think the insides of the side panel should look like new, the part of the fiberglass dash where the hood closes should be like new, the air cleaner cover and tin muffler box should be really dusty but appear nearly new, the rubber pad on the brake pedal should be about like new, and probably alot of other things. Give us some pics of the front tires which should be like new.

Scott N - the other thing to look for on Quiet Lines is the 1" front spindles which ocurred roughly between 77-78, and I think IH went to wet brakes and aluminum axle carriers about the same time.

Larry K - that's called blind luck. When you put the new gasket on it will be a different story.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (and keep'm well tuned)

 

[cscannon]

I picked up a 129 with a 44” deck that I am going to fix up. However I am having some trouble removing the center pulley. The spindles are in need of new bearings or replacement. I have been able to loosen the outer spindle jam nuts and blade nuts by using a large wrench on the hex portion of the pulley and a socket and pull bar on the jam nut. However I cannot get a wrench on the center pulley to hold it. I tried blocking the blade but it just spins on the shaft. Am I approaching this incorrectly? Any ideas?

Also, are the any differences between a 127 and 129 hydro pumps and/or rear ends?

 

[snicklas]

Harry,

My Late 77 one has the smaller (Not one inch) front spindles (Well it did, I stole the 1" off my parts 782). It does also have a wet brake, not sure of the carrier..... I will have to check that when I pull the cover off next time.... need to replace the cork gasket, it is marking its spot in the garage......

 

[wshytle]

Scott-

I'm glad you pointed that out about the steering wheels on a 1650. I was using mine the other day and looked down to notice the wide frame style steering wheel. I never paid any attention to it before and just figured a PO had switched it out. The serial tag is on the left side like the later 1650s. I wonder what's up with that? I know it has 3/4" spindles so I guess that fits the "steering wheel" era.

I'm learning every day.

 

[dsterley]

Harry Bursell,
ill get some more pick this weekend and yes the inside uder the hood is clean well other then dust

 

[hydroharry]

Scott and Wayne - the QL series should all have the serial no. tag on the left side of the frame. Sometime during the xx8/xx9 series IH started placing it on the side of the frame. If you've seen a QL with the tag on the rearend next to the inspection cover then someone had to have changed that rearend. Also, I always refer to xx8/xx9 series and all QL units as Wide Frame units. Since Scott describes them separately I'm not sure how everyone else views it.

(Additonal note to Wayne - glad you're learning every day).

(Additional note to Scott - unless you are going to or need to repair the slot in the trunion I'd leave the cork gasket as is, unless it's leaking really bad or your wife thinks it is.)

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (but their spots do sometimes grow)

 

[tkouttron]

Hello all, here are my three cub cadets. finally got them all out today on the front lawn. the seat for the 104 is off at the moment cause i am currently re-upholstering it. it will go back on probably this weekend. along with the rest of the decals. haven't had much snow this winter unfortunately. I will probably put the mower decks on in a couple weeks. enjoy
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0mYe4FpOVxw/T3yT4q-P-VI/AAAAAAAABP4/b9DVQ9FDrF4/s800/IMG_1173.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gcvFZzo4Wxk/T3yT6T0P-7I/AAAAAAAABQE/nSq4et4-uow/s800/IMG_1174.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VjG73ul39PI/T3yT9ojUGzI/AAAAAAAABQQ/iNPAU0835Ic/s800/IMG_1175.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IwSmoNht54s/T3yT_GhcmqI/AAAAAAAABQc/XB_ZOteUhos/s800/IMG_1176.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BmYFNBrihVA/T3yUAc5KAaI/AAAAAAAABQo/aoqnBh6Mws0/s800/IMG_1177.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-beMU86XQ-cA/T3yUCWRvrWI/AAAAAAAABQ0/JQD9jPK2Caw/s800/IMG_1178.JPG

 

[hydroharry]

Thomas K - you've got some nice looking units there. I'd just put the mower deck on the 104 and use it for that purpose. Then you've got one ready for all conditions. Course if you have a garden or similar you need another CC unit with a tiller. Nice collection.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die

 

[snicklas]

Continued From Above -

Headlight area of "grill" - steel plate with or w/o holes for headlights and the black and silver "striped" decal, lower grill opening - plastic grill with "tin" IH decal in the lower left (carb) side of grill
- Wideframe
Headlight area of "grill" - expanded metal mesh with or w/o holes for headlights and painted black, with plastic IH between the headlights, lower grill opening - expanded metal mesh with or w/o holes for exhaust and painted black
- Quietline

Silver and Black "tin" decals on side of hood, With International Cub Cadet on Grill-end of Hood, (International in the colored stripe, Cub Cadet in the Black Stripe) with a different color top stripe depending on Model: Yellow/Green-86/108/109, Red-128/129, Blue-149/169, with model number (and hydrostatic below the Model # on the 109/129/149) on the sides of the fiberglass dash - Wideframe
Blue and Black Decal Stripe on Hood and Side Panels, with International in the Black Top Stripe, and Cub Cadet in the Blue Stripe, with model number (and hydrostatic below the Model # on the 1250/1450/1650) on the sides of the fiberglass dash - Quietline

Mounting "bracket" with screws and metal retaining ring for headlights - Wideframe
"Rubber" ring mounted headlights, retained by ring - Quietline

Two "springed" latches at lower side, front of the fiberglass dash, use cross brace at rear of hood to hold hood closed - Wideframe
One large "springed" latch at top center of hood, uses a latch, and matching area on hood support to hold hood closed - Quietline

Across the "vertical" section of dash -
Choke | Ammeter (Charge / Discharge) | Optional Lighter or Electric Lift Control
- Wideframe
Across the "vertical" section of dash -
Choke | "Clock Style" Hour-meter | Ammeter (Charge / Discharge)
- Quietline

Left hand, pivot from the center of the dash hydro control - Wideframe
Right hand, length of dash hydro control - Quietline

Throttle - Right Side, centered on dash - Wideframe
Throttle - Left Side, closer to steering wheel on dash - Quietline

Manual PTO, left side of dash control lever - Wideframe
Electric PTO, dash mounted switch - Quietline

Serial number plate - left side of transxle, facing the rear, mounted vertically - Wideframe
Serial number plate - left side of frame, beside/below brake pedal, mounted horizontally - Quietline

These are some of the main differences, between the Wideframe and Quietline series of tractors. Some things are the same throughout the entire run, some change during run of each series (non-braked manual PTO in Early Wideframes vs braked manual PTO in Later Wideframes to Electric on all Quietline), steering wheel change during the Quietline Run, etc.....

I am more familiar with the Wideframe Cubs 86-1650 than any other series. Please feel free to point out any other differences in the list.

 

[snicklas]

Harry,

I agree the 1972-1978/9 86-1650's are all wide-frames. I just normally distinguish the two because there are some "major" difference.

For Example:

Bolted to the frame solid engine mount - Wideframe
Rails/cradle ISO mounted engine - Quietline

K###AS Starter/generator "noisy" engine - Wideframe
K###AQS - flywheel gear starter / flywheel stator "quiet" engine - Quietline

Open Engine, right side exhaust - Wideframe
Enclosed Engine, Air Ducting Box around muffler, Front exhaust - Quietline

Round Air Cleaner housing, sits "in front" of carb (rear mounting plate is "flat"),air pulled in from back side of air filter lid in small gap between lid "bowl" and backing plate - Wideframe
Teardrop Shaped Air Cleaner housing, sits "around" carb (rear mounting plate has indention for the throat of the carb), air is pulled in via a rubber tube in the narrow section of the teardrop, and passes through flywheel "tin" and air is drawn in from "inside" the engine tins - Quietline

Drive "cup" and pin on flywheel end, single rag joint at transmission end of driveshaft - Wideframe
Two Bolt mount, single rag joint on flywheel end, double rag joint at transmission end of driveshaft - Quietline

Ignition Coil, vertical on left (carb) side of engine - Wideframe
Ignition Coil, horizontal on right side of engine above starter - Quietline

Dipstick - Short, in Cam Cover left (carb) side of engine - Wideframe
Dipstick - Long, Mounted in from the top, right (starter) side of engine - Quietline

Engine Mounted (above flywheel/drivshaft) Metal Fuel Tank - Wideframe
Firewall Mounted (above flywheel/drivshaft) Plastic Fuel Tank w/gauge in Cap - Quietline

Hub Mounted disk "dry" disk brakes - Wideframe
Internal "wet" brake - Later Quietlines

Voltage regulator under seat, with battery - Wideframe
Voltage regulator on right side of engine, near starter - Quietline

Wiring harness is completely different, with the Quietline having Two fuses mounted in the left side of dash tower, below the fiberglass "dash" one for the PTO, and one for the Lights.

Continued Below -

 

[tkouttron]

Thanks Harry. i dont have a very big garden but when we till i have a smaller tiller and brother has a big Howard Jem Rotavator. its very powerful and its pretty cool. i am looking to buy a larger tractor but i only live on less than a 1/4 of an acre and my garage is full but thats another project. i have lots of cub cadet attachment from decks, snowblowers, and a plow and a ez-vack system i've never used but it was at my grandpas house. its nice to work on old machinery to keep history around even though i am in my teens. i run a small landscaping company with my brothers and we do all sorts of other hands-on projects.

 

[jbaker]

Regarding the serial tag location I would be surprised if any true QL had the tag on the rear end.

As far as the serial number location, on my 1X8/9 series 3 out of 5 have it on the rear. According to my serial numbers the switch was made from rear to side somewhere between Feb.'74 & May '74.

Also I would think all 169 tags should be on the side

I do make a difference from a QL to 1x8,9 even though they are both wide frames

 

[hydroharry]

Scott N - thanks for posting those differences. I was already aware but others on here may be interested in those details. You still listed the location for the serial number tag on xx8/xx9 (and 86) units as being on the rear. Most I've seen, and all 169s are on the left side of the frame same as the QL. The Operator Manual for the xx8/xx9 (and 86) shows pics for both locations. but the Op Manual for the QL only shows the left side of the frame location. I believe Paul Bell knows the actual month/year that IH made the change to the left side of the frame. In general by referring to xx8/xx9 (and 86) and the QL units as Wide Frames, I'm basically saying the frames for an xx8/xx9 (and 86) and QLs are the same (but not quite identical). This reference has more to do with recognizing options/attachments for W/F versus N/F, than the differences between these 2 W/F series. People refer to the earlier tractors as Narrow Frames but there are substantial differences between the N/F series tractors, and even some differences in their frames. Do you happen to know the difference between the xx8/xx9(and 86) series frames and the QL series frames? And I don't mean the brake pedal arm which is not part of the frame.

Thomas K - I'm certainly glad to see we have some youngsters appreciative of these tractors. Sounds like it's time to clean out the garage to make room for more CCs. Yell'r and White Fever is FOREVER!!!

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (no matter the differences or how old/young they are)