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Loader Dreamin'
- Thread starter aaytay
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Charlie, I wasn't there, had other commitments,
but I'm not entirely convinced that the raffle wasn't rigged.
Home of the Plow Special (Aaytay)
Art
That is a great ides for a hydro tractor with a loader , heck that would save the pto for other tasks. What gallon per minute will that pump give at what rpm ?I would love to find a way to put power steering on my 129 loader.think weight in bucket and its got to go where.I hurry to much and have had to rebuild the box a few times.I was thinking ,I do sometimes lol.If I could make the 129 all hyd
. Then I could run all the toys.(power steering,< rev and forward>tractor control,Snow blower lift) and I could think of a few more mods lol.It all boils down to weight.600 lbs in the bucket can be balanced with very little weight, at a distance Each rear tire has 65+75+25+ 165 lb box( untested) that I got from Frank C.(Maine, ( he can`t fly but wish he
could).I would love to multi task and now make the perfict 149 build.I can do the Math lol. done
() edit took to long)
Charlie is just to blessed !
Art
That is a great ides for a hydro tractor with a loader , heck that would save the pto for other tasks. What gallon per minute will that pump give at what rpm ?I would love to find a way to put power steering on my 129 loader.think weight in bucket and its got to go where.I hurry to much and have had to rebuild the box a few times.I was thinking ,I do sometimes lol.If I could make the 129 all hyd
could).I would love to multi task and now make the perfict 149 build.I can do the Math lol. done
() edit took to long)
Charlie is just to blessed !
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Don-
There have been so many ideas thrown around here, I'm confused about which one you're saying is a "great idea"....
At this point I'm still trying to decide if I should stick to my original "gear-drive" plans, or go Hydro.
There have been so many ideas thrown around here, I'm confused about which one you're saying is a "great idea"....
At this point I'm still trying to decide if I should stick to my original "gear-drive" plans, or go Hydro.
junderwood
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- John Underwood
Art,
When I finally get to my loader project I am going to mount it on a super frame with power steering, foot control hydro, and other bells and whistles. I really think a super frame gives extra length, stability, and ease of access. I would also pull the rockshaft and use it for the hydro foot control.
We'll see what happens. It may just get mounted on the VTwin 1872 for a while since I could swap it to the custom frame at a later date.
Hopefully, those thoughts don't confuse you even more.
When I finally get to my loader project I am going to mount it on a super frame with power steering, foot control hydro, and other bells and whistles. I really think a super frame gives extra length, stability, and ease of access. I would also pull the rockshaft and use it for the hydro foot control.
We'll see what happens. It may just get mounted on the VTwin 1872 for a while since I could swap it to the custom frame at a later date.
Hopefully, those thoughts don't confuse you even more.
ART - One last thought on loader tractors....
Loaders are like pickup trucks, trailers, and garages/work shops. I have NEVER seen one too big.
Case in point. 30+ yrs ago My Sweet Wife said,"We need new gravel in the driveway". Closest quarry was the same one I used to haul 6-7 single axle dump truck loads out of some days with a C-65 Chevy, most loads were around 18,000-20,000# net. SO I drive my little old POS Chevy LUV to the quarry, weigh my empty and wait for the same endloader that loads 5-axle semi's with three bucket fulls to load my little truck. The Operator scooped up this cute little pile of rock in the corner of his bucket, and s-l-o-w-l-y dropped a part of it squarely in the center of my pickup box. It was A TON, 2000#, about three times what the truck should have held. But I made it the 6-7 miles home with three loads that size.
Loaders are like pickup trucks, trailers, and garages/work shops. I have NEVER seen one too big.
Case in point. 30+ yrs ago My Sweet Wife said,"We need new gravel in the driveway". Closest quarry was the same one I used to haul 6-7 single axle dump truck loads out of some days with a C-65 Chevy, most loads were around 18,000-20,000# net. SO I drive my little old POS Chevy LUV to the quarry, weigh my empty and wait for the same endloader that loads 5-axle semi's with three bucket fulls to load my little truck. The Operator scooped up this cute little pile of rock in the corner of his bucket, and s-l-o-w-l-y dropped a part of it squarely in the center of my pickup box. It was A TON, 2000#, about three times what the truck should have held. But I made it the 6-7 miles home with three loads that size.
Art you could do somthing like this and run the pto pump off the front.
On the rear of the hydro itself--- where the stub of the input shaft runs through,,, has anyone carried that shaft on to the rear of the tractor so that Art's pump could use it??? It would run all the time this way.
mgonitzke
Well-known member
He wouldn't have to use that ridiculously expensive PTO pump either, since it's turning engine speed. That would be pretty easy to do on a NF with a bracket for the pump and a lovejoy coupler.
Jerry, Ya mean like the one that Craig De Long did for his hydraulic lift?
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
I have just added Aux. Hydraulics to a 147 by
connecting a 4 gal. per minute pump to the output shaft of the hydro. Seems to work quite well so far. I replaced the tin cover on the rear housing
with a 1/4" plate and mounted the pump on the rear of it. Hyd fluid is drawn out of the rear assy., thru a filter and into the pump. Rear housing is
acting as the tank and after going thru pump and valve, fluid is dumped back in the rear thru another fitting in the plate. Its a bolt on unit that fits
quite well under the seat but you have to remove some of the tin in the under-seat compartment. If anyone knows any problems this can cause the
hydro ....please let me know. I'll try and post a photo if I can figger it out!
C. DeLong
Well thanks guys, had the idea in my head for quite a while now, finally got around to working on it. Pump is from Northern, can get quite a few
differant volumes-pressures, all mount same. Valve is three spool eaton 6 gal. per minute. Filter mount is off 85 Ford 6.9 diesel fuel filter, ports
rebored and retapped, fitted with napa 1244 hyd filter (for small size). Pump is coupled with hollow shaft bored 5/8" hydro end and 1/2" with key slot and set screw on pump end. Whole arrangement is quite simple to build. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
I have just added Aux. Hydraulics to a 147 by
connecting a 4 gal. per minute pump to the output shaft of the hydro. Seems to work quite well so far. I replaced the tin cover on the rear housing
with a 1/4" plate and mounted the pump on the rear of it. Hyd fluid is drawn out of the rear assy., thru a filter and into the pump. Rear housing is
acting as the tank and after going thru pump and valve, fluid is dumped back in the rear thru another fitting in the plate. Its a bolt on unit that fits
quite well under the seat but you have to remove some of the tin in the under-seat compartment. If anyone knows any problems this can cause the
hydro ....please let me know. I'll try and post a photo if I can figger it out!
C. DeLong
Well thanks guys, had the idea in my head for quite a while now, finally got around to working on it. Pump is from Northern, can get quite a few
differant volumes-pressures, all mount same. Valve is three spool eaton 6 gal. per minute. Filter mount is off 85 Ford 6.9 diesel fuel filter, ports
rebored and retapped, fitted with napa 1244 hyd filter (for small size). Pump is coupled with hollow shaft bored 5/8" hydro end and 1/2" with key slot and set screw on pump end. Whole arrangement is quite simple to build. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
mgonitzke
Well-known member
I think my Kwik-Way has 3" x 24" lift and 1.5" x 12" tilt cylinders.
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Well, the parts-collecting for the loader project soldiers slowly onward. Northern Tool sent out some $20-off coupons last week, so I got the pump ordered.
I need to decide if I'm going to run it off the front PTO, or in a "dedicated" style like Craig DeLong did in the pics that Kraig reposted. This is going to be a "dedicated loader tractor", so I'm not concerned with being able to remove the pump. Because of that, running it off the back may be the way to go since it will be up and out of the way.
Anyway, now time to start saving for some cylinders. I'll probably get the frame-work built before buying them, but what is the "standard" dimensions people are using on these smaller loaders?
I need to decide if I'm going to run it off the front PTO, or in a "dedicated" style like Craig DeLong did in the pics that Kraig reposted. This is going to be a "dedicated loader tractor", so I'm not concerned with being able to remove the pump. Because of that, running it off the back may be the way to go since it will be up and out of the way.
Anyway, now time to start saving for some cylinders. I'll probably get the frame-work built before buying them, but what is the "standard" dimensions people are using on these smaller loaders?
Art A
Is that a 4 to 8 gpm pump ? If so the bigger the cylinder size you will need wot to move both lift and the bucket at the same time. ask me how I know. I would never attach the pump solid as its nice to be able to clutch the pump out and not have to spin the pump to get the tractor started , also when moving the tractor with a load of soil its nice to have all the power available for moving around .I`am giving some thought to how to improve my loader this spring and another pump might be bought. I need to find someone who has a good knowledge of hydraulics to help me with the 129 loader.Its a pain not to be able to lift and curl the bucket at the same time .
Is that a 4 to 8 gpm pump ? If so the bigger the cylinder size you will need wot to move both lift and the bucket at the same time. ask me how I know. I would never attach the pump solid as its nice to be able to clutch the pump out and not have to spin the pump to get the tractor started , also when moving the tractor with a load of soil its nice to have all the power available for moving around .I`am giving some thought to how to improve my loader this spring and another pump might be bought. I need to find someone who has a good knowledge of hydraulics to help me with the 129 loader.Its a pain not to be able to lift and curl the bucket at the same time .
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Don-
Yes, the pump is a 4-8GPH pump. I think you're right, it does make sense to mount the pump to the PTO. If nothing else, the loader and pump can be removed as one unit.
Matt-
Thanks!
Yes, the pump is a 4-8GPH pump. I think you're right, it does make sense to mount the pump to the PTO. If nothing else, the loader and pump can be removed as one unit.
Matt-
Thanks!
MATT - Wow, those lift cylinders are HUGE! Both my big loaders have 2-1/2" x 30" cylinders. And that's with relatively low pressure hyd. systems. The Super H pump tested 850-900 PSI several yrs ago and the way the loader on the M works I'd guess it to be around 1200-1300 PSI.
ART - I think a PTO powered pump is the way to go. Would make for easier cold weather starting.
ART - I think a PTO powered pump is the way to go. Would make for easier cold weather starting.
junderwood
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Lift cylinders only need to be 2" bore especially if you are building your own system. Just get an adjustable valve and set it for around 1500 psi. Most of the Allied loaders were only set to 900 psi max. If the geometry is right a 2" cylinder at 1500 psi will have more lift capacity than the tractor can handle. You can then adjust down from there if you want to limit your lift to match the tractor. Another thing to look for are cylinder with at least 1" rods. This will help prevent bending the rods. You may be able to get by with 3/4" rods on the bucket cylinders. The larger rods can limit the bucket curl capacity. If it doesn't work like you want put larger cylinders or keep the pressure turned up.
For the pump make sure it is rated to turn the rpm your pulley system will drive it to at WOT. Then make sure it has good flow (4-5 GPM) at half throttle because you may find yourself running there to get a little better control.
Also, make sure your valve is only rated for the max flow of the pump. Usually only the 8-10 GPM range on these small loaders. There are a lot of nice cheap 10 GPM valves available the will work well. Prince has a new import line that are running $150-$200. You can even get a nice Joystick control on them. You may also want to think about a 3rd spool in case you want another bucket function like a log grapple. Make sure one of the spools has float so the boom can float if you are trying to back drag the bucket to spread material.
As far as running multiple function you may find it isn't possible. Depending on flow and loads the oil is going to take the path of least resistance. There are things that might help to counteract this but not really worth it on a "powered wheelbarrow". Just know the limitations and don't expect it to be an industrial loader. If you must have that start studying hydraulic books and design your system instead of slapping it together. The Eaton Mobile Hydraulics book has a lot of good info and is available on Amazon for $55 ISBN-10 # 0963416251.
For the pump make sure it is rated to turn the rpm your pulley system will drive it to at WOT. Then make sure it has good flow (4-5 GPM) at half throttle because you may find yourself running there to get a little better control.
Also, make sure your valve is only rated for the max flow of the pump. Usually only the 8-10 GPM range on these small loaders. There are a lot of nice cheap 10 GPM valves available the will work well. Prince has a new import line that are running $150-$200. You can even get a nice Joystick control on them. You may also want to think about a 3rd spool in case you want another bucket function like a log grapple. Make sure one of the spools has float so the boom can float if you are trying to back drag the bucket to spread material.
As far as running multiple function you may find it isn't possible. Depending on flow and loads the oil is going to take the path of least resistance. There are things that might help to counteract this but not really worth it on a "powered wheelbarrow". Just know the limitations and don't expect it to be an industrial loader. If you must have that start studying hydraulic books and design your system instead of slapping it together. The Eaton Mobile Hydraulics book has a lot of good info and is available on Amazon for $55 ISBN-10 # 0963416251.
John Underwood
The controls for my loader have float and power beyond port . Where would I adjust the pressure up so lifting and curling the bucket does not stop moving. Now if I move both levers on one will move lift or curl.I thought I had to buy a bigger pump for more flow. My cylinders are 2" x 24" I think for both (2 for lift) and for the bucket) Thanks Don T
The controls for my loader have float and power beyond port . Where would I adjust the pressure up so lifting and curling the bucket does not stop moving. Now if I move both levers on one will move lift or curl.I thought I had to buy a bigger pump for more flow. My cylinders are 2" x 24" I think for both (2 for lift) and for the bucket) Thanks Don T
junderwood
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Don,
There is no adjustment to get both circuits working. Like I said the oil is doing the easiest thing first. That is how flow works on a simple valve. You are just opening a path to both circuits and the oil is doing the easiest task. There are a lot of variables to figure out where you problem lies. Flow could help, but too much isn't good either. Too much flow could cause a lot of problems like over heating or blown hoses. You have to know your system. You need to spec them all to work together. Once you figure out your pump, valve, cylinder, and line specs you could run the calculations and possibly make it work with some new parts.
You don't need the PB either. It isn't doing any thing on your loader. Just a simple open center valve is all that is needed.
There is no adjustment to get both circuits working. Like I said the oil is doing the easiest thing first. That is how flow works on a simple valve. You are just opening a path to both circuits and the oil is doing the easiest task. There are a lot of variables to figure out where you problem lies. Flow could help, but too much isn't good either. Too much flow could cause a lot of problems like over heating or blown hoses. You have to know your system. You need to spec them all to work together. Once you figure out your pump, valve, cylinder, and line specs you could run the calculations and possibly make it work with some new parts.
You don't need the PB either. It isn't doing any thing on your loader. Just a simple open center valve is all that is needed.
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