Archive through April 03, 2012

[gsmyth]

Long.
Need advice. Straight up!

Cub Cadet 1450, 1978.
On March 14 I sent my tractor to a dealer to finish work begun last fall. I have a oil leak of approx 1 quart every four acres mowing or five hours operation. This is the list to be done.
Cub Cadet 1450 -- Serial Number 635621, September 1978

PROBLEMS TO BE CORRECTED

1. Oil leak
2. Rough running, choke made adjusted and loud operation reduced
3. Engine reset and braced and dampened.


REPAIR/REPLACE/EXCHANGE

New front and rear seals
New motor mount plate installed with motor isolation mounts front and rear (items supplied)
Engine tuned -choke and throttle adjusted.
Oil pan replaced with cast iron one (supplied).
Brake tightened/adjusted
Welded if and where necessary (I thought that I saw a frame crack, but now I cannot locate it.)
Tubes for rear tires.
New coil and points, plug replaced, and spark plug wire (provided)
Flexible joints checked
Steering rods installed but only if necessary (rods supplied)
Idler ratchet installed (provided)
New fuse holder and fuse to permit headlights/evening operation.
Camber of wheels checked and corrected if necessary.

I have only one tractor and when it is in repair nothing gets done.

Because many of the parts/items were supplied earlier I was faced with an estimate of about $700 for the work.

After three weeks sitting, today the dealer drove the tractor into the shop. He called and informed me that I need to have the engine bored, new rings, and “likely” a new rod. I’m now looking “at least” $1600 to $1800. I have to add here I’m not made of money.

I’m 66 years old, realistically I’m looking at ten more years of cutting grass. I know this tractor. Had it a long time. I’ve done all I know how to do to keep it running and I have no intention of giving it up.

Still, my grass is calf high, the neighbors are anxious (me too), and in addition I see (admittedly) lesser quality tractors out there for about the $1600 the dealer wants. I’m asking for alternatives. Should I bring it home and live with the leaks, only do some on the list and do the remainder over time (1. I have no truck and 2. it will be a total learning experience with only this site to assist), buy a new or used replacement? I’m really having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Help? Suggestions? Opinions?

 

[vthomley]

Gary,
Bring it home! Tear into it yourself, You'll find everyone here is ready and willing to help you with whatever you encounter!

Also there's a ton of info in FAQs section http://cubfaq.com/questions.html

 

[jbaker]

Can fellow members check their serial tag location to narrow down a relocation date???

My latest dated rear end tag indicates a Febuary 1974 build and my next tractor is a May 1974 build and that tag is on the frame left side

So between Feb.'74 & May '74 they moved

Feb74 #500115 thru May #510353

so we have 10238 tractors to check

 

[hydroharry]

Gary S - well, you came to the right place for advice. Sounds like you want 10 more years of use. 1st off, I'm not sure you would get 10 years out of a brand new $1600 tractor. Now, in order from your list of "PROBLEMS TO BE CORRECTED"
1 - Oil Leak
This is critical. The engine capacity is only 1 and 1/2 qts so if you're down a qt in 5 hours you're way way way into the danger zone and could have caused internal damage. The front crank seal (behind the electric PTO clutch) is the most likely problem. It really throws the oil out if its failed. Never heard of anyone having a problem with the rear seal (flywheel side). What ever the oil leak it needs to be fixed. If you are actually burning that much oil thru the engine in that amount of time then you have to do the rebuild (which is more than the items you mention).
2 - Rough Running, choke operation and loud operation.
Rough running could be the result of so many things it's hard to address. It could be just major tune up items, or it could be internal issues. I'd probably have the tune up done but not change the coil at this point. You really don't mention the carburetor which could be causing the rough running by sucking to much air. It may need a throttle shaft kit
3 - Engine Reset, Braced and Dampened
This sounds like you're seeing your engine rotating side to side (back and forth) as it fires. It's almost certainly the ISO-mounts. Sounds like from your list of parts items you were already aware and wanted these replaced, and may be aware of having the ISO-bars welded together using a cross member. This will solve the shaking/rotating side to side, and help keep other things from flying apart.

Now from your list of REPAIR/REPLACE/EXCHANGE here's my opinion:
1 - New front and rear seals - I would only do the front crank seal next to the electric PTO.

2 - New motor mount plate installed with motor isolation mounts front and rear (items supplied) - yes, and if they know how to do the cross brace to make it a cradle then just as well while they do this work.

3 - Engine tuned -choke and throttle adjusted. - yes

4 - Oil pan replaced with cast iron one (supplied). - No, this is probably not cause of oil leak, unless the engine shaking or loose mounting bolt cracked the pan.

5 - Brake tightened/adjusted - Yes, this is minor adjustment but important for safety.

6 - Welded if and where necessary (I thought that I saw a frame crack, but now I cannot locate it.) - only do this if you find crack.

7 - Tubes for rear tires. - Not sure why so I would not do this.

8 - New coil and points, plug replaced, and spark plug wire (provided) - Yes, except the coil. Unless the coil is a known issue I would not replace.

9 - Flexible joints checked - yes to checking, but not replacing at this point.

10 - Steering rods installed but only if necessary (rods supplied) - no unless there is a known issue.

11 - Idler ratchet installed (provided) - not sure what you're referring to here.

12 - New fuse holder and fuse to permit headlights/evening operation. - If you know this is why your headlights are not operating, otherwise I'd delay this.

13 - Camber of wheels checked and corrected if necessary. - Check to see if wheel bearing are ok and unless the bearing has completely failed I'd leave them alone.

With regard to tearing into the engine to check the cylinder, rings, etc., I would see how it runs after doing some or all the above as I suggested. If you need a rod you most likely will need the crankshaft ground, if it still can be. Buying a replacment crank can be expensive and your $1600 bill will grow bigger.

Since this dealer took 3 weeks just to get it in the shop I'd strongly consider just bringing it home and finding another used Cub Cadet locally in PA that you can use to cut your grass for a few years, as you work out the issues with the 1450. You can probably even buy 2 or 3 Cub Cadets for the $1600-$1800 estimate of costs that could continue to rise. If you could happen to find another model 1450, or even a 1250 to use, it might be helpful for your situation. I realize alot of this is a matter of costs to you. If you can have some repairs done then I'd probably do what I recommended for your list of REPAIR/REPLACE/EXCHANGE. It could be throwing money away if the main problem is internal in your engine, but at this point it's really had to say. Doing these things rules out the problems with these things.

I hope this helps with your decision and good luck with what you decide. Keep coming back to let us know how you work things out.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (but at times can need alot of work)

 

[jbaker]

Gary,, "If it was me"
the $1600 to $1800 would probaly buy you 2 good IH cub tractors that would last you 10 years. there are several nice ones in the classifieds and over in your neck of the woods it seems they are very plentiful.

Harry types fast,, so I ditto his advice bring it home find another IH cub and then fix or sell the 1450

and in the meen time find a kid or lawn service for a one time cut

 

[dwilkinson]

Is there a way to identify a series I from a series II 17 HP Kohler other than a sticker that may or may not be affixed to the engine?

 

[mgonitzke]

Doug-

Series II has a plastic oil fill cap; Series I has a metal pipe plug. The Series II may or may not have an oil filter blockoff plate on the right front side of the engine just in front of the cylinder; the Series I definitely will not. The Series II has a spec number of 24300 and above if the data plate is intact.

 

[pbell]

Harry
I do not know (or really care) when the data plate on the wide frames was moved from the rear end housing to the left frame rail. The only wide frames I have are an 86 and a 800. The 86 was built Jan 72 and has the data plate on the rearend.

 

[hydroharry]

Now Paul - you must have some caring in your for where the plates are mounted. Your 800 must be mounted on the left side of the frame. I know you want them to be in the correct places. You've got 2 of the most unique W/Fs. For some reason I thought I had seen you mention a date previously when this change did or may have ocurred. Jeff B has got real close to it in early '74.

Jeff B - I'm not sure I type fast, but since I have to use so many words I gotta try as fast as I can. I was over the limit and had to go back and remove a few (dang Charlie really limits me).

Thanks,
Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die

 

[pleffelman]

I am working on 125 cadet searching for the rubber hood locks & apacers, #ih-38-4906-r1 is spacer & #ih-393859-r2 is rubber lock for hood, discontinued thru C.C. anyone know where to locate these to replace them, thanks.

 

[hydroharry]

Paul L - I think Charlie at CC Specialties has got those. Click on the CC Specialties link at the top of the page.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (and need new rubbers now and then)

 

[gcorzine]

sorry clutch issue is on a my 106 not 107

i have been becoming more aggravated with cubs recently - gave up on the 1650 carb issues for a while and going to get the 147 back together it needs new hydro fan replaced and loosening of hydro shift lever from sitting outside for a bit before i brought back in the garage - already has starter generator rebuild and new solenoid box- carb redone - front wheels blasted and painted with new tires - i know this one runs great - the only reason i stopped using it was because generator burned out and at the same time my neighbor gave me his old crafstman which i mowed with for 4 years before the deck rotted out - now the clutch is going out on my only back up the 106 of course pulling around a 1100 lawn roller around 3/4 of a acre may have not help the already weak clutch

maybe its time to spend some green ben franklins and loose the yellow and go get a bigger green machine in the new millenium what do you think

 

[hydroharry]

George C - in one word - NEVER

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (not even from threats)

 

[tkouttron]

George, i would never buy a new machine, especially a green one. cub cadets may have some flaws but if you treat em good and maintain them monthly then you shouldn't have any major problems. I completely agree with Harry, "Old Cubs Never Die"

 

[tflynn]

Charlie "Digger" and Harry B,
I did look at the FAQ and Archives BEFORE asking my questions. I was still confused so I asked. Harry you were right, now that I got everything off I can "see" what was talked about. Anyway I got everything off and will now order the parts. Thanks for your help.
Today I went and got the Cub Cadets big brother... a 1952 H with a wide front end, another IH toy.

 

[thoffman]

George C,
If you spend a <u>FEW</u> greenbacks for a greenie, you will be getting $--t. If you want a <u>GOOD</u> greenie you will be spending <u>LOT</u> of greenbacks.

 

[jchamberlin]

Gary S. --

I feel your pain --I've been there. I couldn't mow my own grass for two years. My old 38" Murray that I had paid $100 for had given me 10 years of service, but the engine knock wouldn't go away until one day when it went away for good.

The first year, I traded my services repairing a boat for a neighbor if he would mow my grass for me. Meanwhile, I located a used mower that the owner was willing to give me, he told me it just needed a little tender-loving care. It needed a whole lot more. I worked on it all summer, and by the fall I had it working. I worked on it all winter, improving it in every way and I was all psyched up the second spring when I fired it up --it lasted 10 hours before ITS motor blew up.

My wife and I pushed the whole yard that year.

I was willing to invest the time and money in the broken tractor because it was a Model 782 that had "International" all over it, except for the ID tag that said "Cub Cadet Corporation."

I was advised by members of this site to locate a replacement engine, and that I might have an easier time of it by looking for an entire tractor. I did manage to find a tractor with a suitable engine. But after all my struggles, I decided to fix the deck on the donor tractor and use it until the winter when I could switch the motors. I made a good decision.

The happy ending is that with the extra time, I learned a lot about the tractor I LOVED and was able to cut my grass in the meantime.

The third year I was cutting grass with my still "confuguliated" 782. I've never looked back (but maybe side-ways once-in-a-while).

I second the thought that a new $1,600 tractor will likely disappoint you (although your wife might be pleased). The old Cubs are a lot of fun to work on, but I understand if you don't want to. Buying a second Cub Cadet may not be as crazy as it sounds. There do seem to be a lot of them in the Pennsylvania / New York State area. If you locate one that is the same era as your own, you'll have a donor parts tractor and/or comparison model. Until then, somebody's son could use some pocket change . . .

I WANTED to learn about how my tractor worked because I was tired of being at the mercy of lawn mower repair centers like the one with which you're dealing. However, in fairness, this is a VERY busy time of year for them.

 

[hydroharry]

Tom F - I'm glad to hear you got the PTO clutch, bearing and collar removed. I know what you're saying about the FAQs. Many are written as if you already know the parts involved or some of the function. When you're just starting out and look at a PTO clutch it doesn't initially appear it should be hard to remove, and then you say or think wait a minute, just how and what holds it on the shaft? Pics can be worth a thousand words, but don't tell the whole story. Now, you didn't mention if you have or downloaded the Service Manual for your unit. You're gonna need it to disassemble the clutch if you haven't already, and you're gonna need it to understand re-assembly, along with the FAQ. If you don't have the manual go to the Forum Introduction page and scroll down the threads to find the listing for Manuals, click that section, and then the next until you get to the list for your unit (I believe yours was a 1x4/1x5 unit). For your parts needed I don't know if you need a new fiber clutch disc. I can't tell from the pic you posted. The Service Manual will give you advice on how many ears can be broke off the fiber disc before it should be replaced. I do know from the pic that you need at least 2 and possibly all 3 of the spring levers (only 1 is still on your clutch in the pic you posted and that 1 does not look good). I can't tell from your pic if you still have the center thrust button that holds the 3 ears together. It's probably missing since you only have 1 of the 3 levers left, so you'll need this button. This also tells me you need 3 new screws, springs for the screws, and the double nuts for each one of them. (These are special screws so you need to use the IH parts). By the time you add up all these needed items you may be better off buying one of Charlies rebuilt Clutch PTO assemblies and trading yours in to him. I don't know if the other sponsors have a complete rebuilt clutch assembly, or if you could get a used one that someone has gone over to make sure everything is set up correctly. If you do buy just the parts you will need the gauge tool to set the spring tension. Another thing you may need is the fiber button that goes on the rockshaft lever controlled by your PTO engagement handle. Look at the revese side of the lever bar (as if you were looking toward the front of the tractor) and you'll see the little fiber button that presses against the thrust button when you engage the clutch. I can see in your pic that at least part of the button is still on the lever but it's probably worn or cracked away and needs replacing. Some guys have gone to using a bronze button that last forever instead of the fiber. Charlie has both versions as well. If you get the fiber version I recommend buying 2 in case you break one installing it. And finally your PTO clutch pulley is probably ok but needs to be cleaned up and probably trued or sanded smooth on the clutch disc side. I don't think it's critical to be really true. I'd also recommend painting this all up either while it's apart, or after it's re-assembled so it doesn't rust all up again. Good luck with your rebuild and get back to us with how you do.

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (I might be reaching my posting limit but don't tell Charlie)

 

[tkouttron]

I am trying to reupholster my cub cadet 104 seat. i shaped the foam and it is all glued in with heavy duty adhesive. i now want to put the vinyl on but every time i try to mold it, the vinyl bubbles and bends and wont take the shape of the seat. does anyone have any suggestions on how to mold the vinyl to the seat?

 

[dfrisk]

GEORGE C. - An 1100# lawn roller should be a piece of cake for a 106 CC. Unless your yard has really steep hills, then you'd run out of traction unless you run lug tires or chains and LOTS of rear weight. The All Up weight of my lawn vac is over 2000# and I pulled it all over my 2-1/2 acres with a #72 with a K241 for many years, running the 38" deck while pulling that weight. The clutch was the original one, new throw-out bearing, teaser spring, and friction disc but the pressure spring & clutch plates were the original parts from 1968. I had the clutch slip one time at a Plow Day plowing about 10 inches deep in sod in 2nd gear, but I was using EVERYTHING My old K241 had.

If your clutch won't pull the tractor just mowing I'd spend the money on the parts to repair it if the rest of the tractor is sound.

Far as changing from yellow/white to green & yellow, like TOM H says, costs a LOT for a decent reliable green tractor. From what I see on their forum they have more problems than old neglected CC's do by far. Their GD's are weak, the "Variator" causes lots of issues, the Hydro's are durable but they use a driveshaft with two U-joints that only lasts a couple hundred hours and costs over $100 to replace. Far as anything NEW, regardless of color, a GD or Hydro CC of any vintage will still be working reliably long after the new tractors are wore out. NOTHING on the L&G market except the early CC's, (IHC vintage) have the design directly going back to a real FARM tractor. The only L&G tractor close to the robust design of a CC is the Economy Power King's, They used the same Kohler engines and a 4-spd cast iron trans, dry plate clutch & DANA cast iron rear axle assembly. The BIG Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers garden tractors, like Kraig's #620 Allis were pretty stout too.