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IH Cub Cadet Pulling and Hot Rodding

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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I think if I was going to do that the only parts I would do would be the carrier around the differential pin. and the main case in the areas between the top shaft & the lower pinion shaft. the next main case I get that has a habbit of shelling gear teeth & ring & pinions I'm planning on Magnafluxing. they have to be cracking somewhere and allowing the shafts to push apart under load. I know of 2 or 3 units so far (in pullers)that had a ring & pinion failure & after the repair they started tearing teeth off of the gears in the tranny
 
Hello there everyone,I was wondering if you all have seen or heard of the new lawntec v-cut pulling tires.I am wanting to get some v-cuts for my puller and I was going to get some pit bulls 2 but then I seen these lawntecs in the new midwest magazine and they are cheaper than the pit bulls 2 and they look almost the same so I do not know which one to get so could you help me out?

Thanks
 
Jonah : I'm a dealer for them. there are very few sets around right now. I should be getting a few sets this weekend but they are already spoken for. they are probably closer to a Cepek than a pit bull. the lug angle is 20 deg. the front angle is the same as the cepek , the big difference is the lug count . there are fewer lugs which alows you to get a wider bite on the track instead of floating on top with lugs to close. this seams to be a problem with some tires. as for hardness nonhardend they are slightly harder than a soft Cepek when checked with a durometer. I would think that as the weeks go by the tires will start coming in pretty steady.In the summer testing that Julian Stahl has done he's had some pretty favorable results so far. click on the VPE link at the top of the page , theres info on Lawntec there. I'll get some better pics of the tires to post when I get them
 
Don,
I picked up a K341 from Colin Brown this weekend, gonna make a 1600 out of my 1000. It was a shortblock so no flywheel. Can I use my 10HP AQS ring gear flywheel or is it a different one for the 16?

Thanks, Kenny.
 
Don- Speaking of engines, I just got a 18hp Kohler Command. From the manual I see that it has the same bore, stroke & compression as a 20hp & 22hp Command. . .so where does the extra power come from? Cam/carburator?

What kind of mildly crazy things can I do with the 18hp block to get it more like the 22hp or even 25hp motor?
 
Kenny the one off your 10 will work


Ryan. I'm not to up on the twins. I do know that the ign. module is different on them and I'm pretty sure thats the only difference from a 20 - 22 , there may be a carb difference on the 18's but I'm not sure. maybe someone else can answer it better than I can.


1st NQS pointpull is this weekend in Princeton Indiana on Oct. 3&4 . if you're in the area stop by to say hi.
 
Don,
I know a #26 carb is incorrect for a K341, but if I run it rich, will it still be too lean? I have to find a #30 but would like to have the engine running for this weekend's show. what do you think?

Thanks, Kenny.
 
Don V,
This is a little premature but I'm anticipating
getting a 149 that needs the engine rebuilt. I'll
get one eventually anyhow. I'm planning on hot rodding it a little but it will be a worker. I just rebuilt the K301 in my 123 and used some of
David K's tricks on it. I used a 10 hp head and did a mild port job, 3 angle valve job, and a Vogel 223 grind cam. I'm really impressed with how it works. It has great power and torque. I'm planning
on doing about the same on the K321. My question
is should I use that same cam? I thought maybe since the K321 is a little bigger CI that maybe I
should go a little more agressive with the cam.
BTW I'm going to run it at stock RPMS (3600-3800).
Also, if this engine doesn't have the big exhaust valve, should I put the big one in? I remember you talking about the exhaust valve before, but I
don't remember what you said.
 
Todd I'd stay with the same cam. cam grinds tend to have more to do with the RPM the engine runs at and where you want the hp & torque than it does with size or cubes. the difference between a 12 & a 14 isn't that much. I would guess that a 14 in a 149 would have the larger exhoust valve, If it had the small one I'd leave it that way for a few reasons. it's easier to put a 10 hp head on it. it leaves more room for air flow also. and how many engines have you seen in your life that had the valves the same size? one thing you could do is put a little larger intake valve in if you have the same size valves aready.

Kenny . you could run a #26. you'll loose power. you should be able to jet it in since it is a smaller carb you should have a stronger vacume signal at the main jet. if you find yourself turning the main jet out past 3-3 1/2 turns just drill out the main jet tube .010 at a time . eventually you should get it rich enough.
 
Ryan-
The 18hp Command is the same thing as the 20, just differnt governor setting. Where I worked before, I worked with a former Kohler engineer, his late model Cub is an 18 switched to 20hp settings.
 
Thanks for the response Don. A couple more if you don't mind:
I looked through the TC157 and noticed the same cam called out for all (4) AQS engines, 10hp through 16. The ACR tab on my 16 is broken. Can I just throw in a 10 hp cam? I thought they might be diferent grinds.
Is it worth it (economically) to purchase aftermarket Grade 8 studs, bolts and nuts for the head/block or should I just order Kohler parts? My shortblock came with no hardware.
Talking to Professor Chabot this weekend we argued about the value of balance gears. Bringing up a post of yours where you stated the arc of a balance geared engine is smaller than an unbalance geared one convinced us that they do in fact help out with imbalance, but I'm not sold that the risk factor is worth it. Are 14 hp balance gears the same as 16 hp ones? If I do decide to put some in, I have a mint set out of a near new 14 hp. I will, however, if I decide to use them, put them in with NEW Retaining Rings installed the CORRECT way with the FLAT side out toward the thrust side of the stub shaft groove. I've seen many failures of these due to improper installation of the ring and Re-Use of the Old Ring which I consider a No-no.

Thanks,
Kenny
 
Kenny I'd do more research on that cam. I'm thinking start with a Kohler Dealer. I've done some checking with a dial indicator and a degree wheel and the 16 hp cam was different than that used in the 10-14 hp engines. if you look closly at the 16 & a 10 you'll note that the cylinder sits at a different location relative to the crank when its at TDC. I'd just go get some grade 8 bolts for the head & pan & use grade 5 on all the rest.
I'd still leave the balence gears out. I don't care for them (I ride a Harley so I don't know what smooth is). but you are correct. most failures after overhauls that I've seen are usually from reusing the snap ring or not getting it on correctly or from bending the crap out of it putting the new one on. then you get the guys who leave them in during their idea of a overhaul when they put new rings in. they don't pay attention to the wobble in the gears. those stub & bearings seam to take a beating with that out of balence gear spinning around on them. Why don't you get yourself a cam out of a K361 ? nice improvement over the one thats in it and its a drop in. www.midwestsupercub.net has them now
 
Wyatt- Thanks! I saw in the book where it had different settings all the way up to 4500rpm. . .
 
Don,

Speaking of governors, the one on my unused 16 is of course new and shiny white, but the shaft is severely rusted. Do you think that I can emery and scotch brite it ok to use or would you recommend knocking out the stub shaft and installing a new one? My only concern is the availability of the welsch plug that has to be removed in order to install the new shaft.
Thanks,
Kenny
 
I'd check to see ifthe plug is available first. last one I bought was in the mid 80's
 
Don V., I certainly agree with your statements on cams and exhaust valve size. A little number crunching shows that for the 30 cubic inch engine (K301), the larger K321 exhaust valve installation is not worth the effort.

I'd like to share a carburetor modification that really brings out the best in a mildly hot rodded K301. I did this to both a Walbro and Kohler carburetor and they both run great on my engine, with the Kohler carb having the slight edge in good transient response.

The standard Kohler carb for the 12 horsepower engine is the #26, with a 1.067 throat diameter and .81 diameter venturi. The 16 horse carburetor is the #30, with a 1.197 diameter throat and .935 venturi. As I've mentioned before, my engine is a "street" mill that has to have a relatively broad torque band and good, crisp throttle response. It's used to mow and throw snow so going too wild is not good. When it comes to carburetion, bigger is not always better and in many cases, can be worse in the part throttle and transient ranges.

In putting a #30 on a 12 or 14 horse block, the carb throat is bigger than the inlet port. This means grinding the port to match the carb. In my opinion, it's a lot of unnecessary work for an engine that doesn't turn over 4000 rpm. Some calculations show that the velocity of the air through the venturi of the stock #26 carb at WOT on the inlet stroke at 3600 rpm will yield a Mean Mach Index of .503 (Mean Mach Index is defined as the calculated air velocity divided by the local sonic velocity). For high performance engines, you'd like to stay below .6 and the stock carburetor already is! But now we'd like to turn the souped up engine a little faster to extract more horsepower.

By boring the carb venturi of the #26 carburetor from the original .81 diameter to .875, the area increases from .515 to .601 sq. inches, or a 16.7% increase. Now recalculating the Mach Index at an increased 3900 rpm, we get a value of .467, clearly lower therefore less restrictive than the original at 3600 rpm. One could go bigger yet on diameter, and some remove the venturi all together. I think this is not wise for a working tractor for reasons mentioned above.

Proof is in how well it works and this modification seems to put the finishing touch on the engine. Throttle response is unaffected with crisp, clean acceleration when the throttle is slammed open. Full throttle operation is where one will really notice the power increase.

A picture showing a stock Walbro and the identical carb with venturi machined is shown below. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the bored one is on the right. The modification is done on a lathe after complete disassembly. Pilot off the throttle bore to keep venturi concentric with bore.

12562.jpg
 
Dave K.,

What diameter did you drill your emulsion tube jet hole to?, If at all.

Kenny
 

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