IH Cub Cadet Pulling and Hot Rodding

[wcompton]

Hey Denny-
Remember the sketch I made up 3-4 years ago with a hydro driving an underdrive/overdrive planet set running into a gear drive tranny?!?!? I showed it to two interns from Iowa State . . . . . . .

The idea was to run a hydro in front of a gear drive, output shaft driving a sun gear, planet gears driving the input shaft of a gear drive tranny. The lower output of the hydro drove a sprocket that drove a ring gear. Without running the hydro there was normal 1:1 output, running the hydro in "reverse" would slow the tractor down, running it "foreward" ran it faster. Instead of the inefficient running against the full load of the pull, the hydro only had to run against the low-torque input from the engine. . . . . I had in mind that it could work in a longer SGT chassis with the benefit that the chagre pump could run steering and hydraulic lift, but STILL have a gear drive.

(Message edited by wcompton on June 09, 2004)

 

[dfrisk]

WYATT - I still like the idea of a Torque Amplifier! ;-) I think with the light weight of a Cub Cadet You wouldn't need the over-running clutch that caused the T/A to get the bad reputation from misuse by ignorant operators. Dad had two tractors with T/A's and ran them a total of 8 yrs. Both tractors were about 6-8 yrs old when bought and He lost the T/A in the Super M-TA about the second year He had it. It was unfortunate that it happened about 2-3 days after He started plowing that spring. The M pulled double duty for a few days that year!

 

[wcompton]

Found my stuff!
Found the rough computer model of the Cub Cadet IVT. Not sure what I did here in the first draft because it'd look like I'm driving two ring gears.

Here it was in concept from June 21, 2001.

This is the heart (albeit a concept model) of my Cub Infinitely Variable Transmission. The input and output ring gears are identical; the planetary gears are symmetric about the sprocket. The sprocket is connected to the variable output of the bottom shaft of the hydro.

When the pump is a zero displacement:
• Power is transmitted at 1:1 through the planetary set.

When the pump is at maximum displacement:
• Depending on which direction the motor is turning (hydro forward or reverse) the planetary output can be zero or doubled.
• Note that the hydro pump and motor are of equal displacement. With a stock transmission and equal diameter sprockets, you could achieve 15+ mph, more if you use an overdrive set on the input of the transmission. Also note that speeds could be higher depending on the ratio of the sprockets, but could then put the transmission in reverse when the motor turns the opposite direction.

At least that's what I sent to Denny to bounce the idea off him, more or less to see if I had something or was just "smokin' my socks". Back before I had a chassis for the project tractor and settled on the platform, THIS was going to be a reality. Apparently I had something going . . . .

 

[wcompton]

10hp head question . . . .
I've got an early "LP" head, a later model with the spark plug between valves, but I had been trying to find one that has the plug over the exhaust valve. Looked in a K241AQS engine today (two actually) from early '80's, and the spark plug is still between the valves. Did Kohler make a 10hp head with the plug over the exhaust valve or should I be looking at later model Magnum engines?

 

[dvogt]

quiet line 10 hp heads were over the exhoust port. same head as the 12

 

[wcompton]

Don-
The head I looked at was in a green 210, late '70's early '80's, but it was a "AQS" spec engine like the 1000's would have been. Given. they've got differnt spec numbers and Deere's infamous for oddball Kohler parts. I'd have thought this would be the same head as the QL's, it's not, it even has a 10hp specific head cover . . . . just in case anyone wants to run an LP head on their 1450 and still look "factory stock".

 

[kweaver]

Frank -- I'm sure Don and a few others could give you insert numbers. There was a puller guy that stopped here a few years ago when he spotted the 127 in the drive , he was suppose to email me pics and he never did but he told me of an automotive insert he used and gave the number but in / out my head

 

[jland]

Guy at work does work for a machine shop in town, he has his own shop at home. He probably does 30-40 rods a year with inserts added. the 2 of mine have them, k181 and k301. Does them on his verticle mill or on a lathe.

he recently did a set for a old moline tractor. bought a new set for a oliver and bored them out to fit the moline.

 

[jkoenig]

Ken and Jim,

I believe the rod insert info is on Brian Miller's page. (Lost the link or I'd have checked and included the address.)

Jim, would your coworker like a steady stream of forum customers? I'll bet a post in the classified section would yield a decent response.

 

[jland]

Jim, no he is an old fart, used to be the machine shop teacher at the highschool.

He just tinkers mostly. He grafted 2 5horse horizontal briggs engines together to make a 2 cylinder.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Brian Miller's Pulling Page

 

[jkoenig]

Thanks Kraig.

Too bad, Jim. Only guy I can find to even think about working a rod over for me is the local Harley custom shop owner and he's reeeeeal reluctant. I think I'll end up sending a couple old ones for practicing along with a good one if I ever get around to having it done.

(Message edited by jkoenig on June 14, 2004)

 

[fmorski]

Ken:

Somebody e-mailed me a VW insert number.

Jim:
How does he cut the slot for the tang on the insert? I was thinking of using my horizontal mill with a cutter that is the corect width and a diameter that will fit.

Wanted to build a jig that I cold attached to my table that would allow me to do both without much re-setting up. My Vertical is also my horizontal. One table for both.


Does it make it easier to rebuild the engine that way?

 

[jland]

No idea, maybe a broach. not sure.

 

[kweaver]

Frank -- pass along the numbers. I think the guy that was here told me of a Fiat number. I'd say he might use a key way cutter for the tang notch.

 

[fmorski]

Ken:

Here is the insert number for the VW insert that I was given.

CP 9885 No brand name. Is not a Clevite or PC number. May be a FM number. Have to go on FM site as I do not have a FM book. The Clevite No. is either CD 1426P or CB 1017P.

The bearing Number for the C-60 is 3720-CP by FM. I don't think it will work as the tang will not allow capture since it goes all the way to the end of the insert. Believe the insert could work its way out of the rod.

 

[dkamp]

So I've got two motors here... a K241 and a K301... both smoke. The 10 seemed normally weak until I 'became experienced' with the K301 in it's place...

I'll eventually pull both of these down, and I'm assuming that the smoke is from worn-out rings.

Is it really necessary to give 'em a complete going-through, or will rings, gaskets, a breather, and valve inspection/lapping suffice?

Do these motors experience lots of valve-guide wear?

 

[kweimann]

Dave,
My .02. I always tear them down just to check everything. The price of a gasket set is minimal, and you get to replace both seals which may cause grief later. I also believe that you must clean the block bare after honing with hot soapy water to get rid of all the swarf which could destroy the rings. Also you can double check cam and crank enplays. I use the old "pop" sound trick to determine if the guides are ok. coat the valve with oil, drop it down the guide, put your finger over the guide hole and if it makes a "pop" sound as you pull it out, the clearance is ok. Just make sure there is not a lot of carbon galling in the top of the guides. I also look at the governor cross shaft to see if the rivet has become loose causing the flapper plate to wobble. Governor bushings always get inspected for "shake" and replaced as needed. Hope this helps. Kenny

 

[sblunier]

How much is there to gain by balancing a 16hp rotating assembly???? (Fresh overhaul, .010 & .010, stock cam, 3600rpm on the vibra tach, no balance gears, solid mounted)

My 169 is a wicked shaker when mowing, etc. I'd like to leave the 16hp in there, but hate the thought of not being able to use it without having it tear itself to pieces....4 hours of lawn mowing destroyed a hood hinge.

Any ideas?????


FWIW, I didn't notice it as much plowing (rough ground, pulled down hard, shorter runs, etc., but on the flat lawn it's MUCH more noticeable.

(Message edited by sblunier on June 21, 2004)

(Message edited by sblunier on June 21, 2004)

 

[kehrecke]

Steve:
I've discussed this very topic with Julian Stahl of MWSuperCub. He's never done it for such a low rpm - 3600-3800rpms - but said he'd give it a try. You'd need to give him the entire rotating assy, including rings and he'd go from there.
FWIW,
Keith