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hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Craig - Don's post on 10/1 at 3:05 pm said the problem was with his 122.

Wayne - as I recall that heated debate we had a few years ago was about the rod used in the manual lift arm of the 1x8/9 series. That one resulted in me agreeing to dis-agree with you. You just mentioned you've seen a lot of the rods where the p.o. welded a piece of 3/8" stock at the bottom. I really think that was done at the factory but got no way to prove it.

Don - once you unscrew the button (if you're able to) the rod will slip down slightly in the tube. If you want, I believe you can rotate the bottom of the rod (where it has the 90* bend) and it might slide down a little further. I think (but don't recall for certain) that you might be able to remove the 2 ratchet parts (no. 8 and 9 in the parts diagram)and the rod may slide down further. If you have the tractor raised up you might be able to flex/bend the rod and get it to slide all the way out, just not sure.

The spring and washer are located towards the top of the tube. Once you have the rod slid down far enough you'll have to fish the spring and washer out with some type of wire or hook. The tube has 2 indentations about 6-8" from the top. You probably have to slide your grip up in order to see them. They are basically dents in the side of the tube that keep the washer from falling all the way thru, and allow the washer to give the spring a base to compress against.

Kraig asked you to post a pic of your lift arm so we could see that aluminum cover you mentioned. I think it's actually a tin cover and they were usually painted yellow. A pic would be really helpful. No need to remove this cover tho - it's just covering up the weld of the tube to the bottom of the assembly.
 

kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
I knew I'd seen that cover before... I had a 102 that Craig C. now owns that had it. Here's a couple of photos of the 102.

322717.jpg
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Harry and Kraig - Thanks guys. Gonna give it a go when I get home at 4 or so.

I took the u bolt off the other day but that cover is formed to the base of the lever so I don't think she'll slide off too easy.

I'll start with unscrewing the button and see if the internal rod drops out so I can access the spring and washer.

Thanks for the feedback fellas. Appreciate it.
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Harry - here's the pic you wanted. Looks like the older style lever. Don

322722.jpg


322723.jpg


322724.jpg
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Kraig and Don - I just edited my post below on the info about the tin cover. The later tractors had a chrome tube not cover, so I removed all that stuff.

Don - I see you posted the pics when I was typing the info above. You do have the original 122 lift assembly. If you remove your wire bail (no. 4 in the parts diagram and what CCC calls Release Rod Lock), then slide your grip up a couple inches, you'll be able to see the 2 indentations I mentioned.
 

wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Hydro-

A lot of people will probably agree with you but regardless I don't think it makes any sense. The teeth in the ratchet are spaced 3/8" apart. A 3/8" dowel will fit but it has to be more exact than the factory bend on the 5/16" rod. And it's not suppose to be 90*...I'd guess it to be closer to 65/70*. I fought the rod on my 109 for a while until I decided to see what the heck was going on (and find why I was cussing so much). A piece of 3/8" dowel had been welded by the PO at about a 90* angle. Every time I pushed the button the inner rod would turn and be hard to "seat" in the ratchet. I studied things and looked at other tractors and it dawned on me the 5/16" was what the factory produced. It was like that on my dads 128 and I know the lift arm had never been worked on there. Charlie even agreed (IIRC) that it made more sense to bend than to add/weld a bigger dowel there from the factory.

Don-

What did I say that was so confusing to you? If you have a standard tap and die set it will have what you need, a 5/16"-18 die. Most any hardware store (or Lowes, HD) will carry 5/16" steel rods usually about 4 feet in length which is plenty. A vise and a BFH will produce the bend and with the old rod in hand all you need to do is duplicate the length. Do the bend first then cut/thread/dress the other end. One inch of threads should be plenty. I have even primed the rod because it comes bare metal and will rust especially if subjected to any elements of the outdoors. I would at least coat it with grease completely. When you go to screw the button back don't overdo it, they can break fairly easily so just snug it up.

.
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Thank you Wayne. I'm not quite to the cussing point but those steps sound promising for an amateur guy like myself. I'll see if I can re-work the old system as it sits. If I can't, I may need to ask a buddy to help me craft a new rod. Appreciate the help.
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Well Wayne - I'm just agreeing to disagree. I still think the bottom of the rod on the 1x8/9 series was welded at the factory. Remember at the factory they had to slide the rod in and weld the tube into the casting. I kinda think they welded the rod at the same time they welded the casting.

Don - I sure hope you're able to unscrew the button. If it breaks off and you have to make a new rod, don't forget to account for the length of the threaded part that is broke off inside the button. With the bottom of the rod firmly in the detent you should measure how much of the button is above the top of the tube before you unscrew it. I have no idea how long the rod may be, but Wayne mentioned about an inch of threads. I'd test fit the rod and install the button WITHOUT the washer and spring installed - just to make sure it's the right length. With the rod pushed up into the detent assembly you can measure how much of the button is sticking out the top and see if it's the same as before. It really needs to be exact in order for the wire bail lock to work right.

Ooh, and since you posted a pic, have a good look at that right side foot rest. Look underneath and you'll see the horizontal rod that's part of the lift arm assembly goes thru the underside of the foot rest. So if you want to remove the lift arm assembly you have to first remove the foot rest. Look at the front of the foot rest and try to feel inside the frame to find the front bolt holding the foot rest to the frame. You probably can't even get your finger in there to feel it because the steering column lever is so close. If you remove your engine you'll have a little more room to get at that bolt BUT I really doubt you want to remove your engine. You could remove the steering column but doubt you want to do that either - SO, you can start cussing now if you break that button.
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Harry - LOL. Cussing is like Liquid Wrench in this instance...might not help but it makes me feel better.
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Is this button definitely threaded to rod or one fixed unit? Putting pressure on it but not budging. I did get the rubber grip down (was gummed up with yellow paint) and I see the two dents in the rod where the washer sits. Just can’t get the damn button unscrewed (lefty loosey)
 

wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Hydro-

You're gonna force me to go out to the 102 and see what exactly is there. I don't have a 122 but figure the 102 is the same thing with two less hp. I don't think for a minute that IH welded the tube into the casting either. I believe it's held in with either a pressure fit or a roll pin lock (if you follow my drift). And why isn't there a 3/8" dowel welded to the inner rod on my dads 128? It's never been messed with that I can remember since 1973. Did IH figure it would be cheaper to incorporate and weld a second material than to bend what is already there? I'm not saying it didn't happen but it sure doesn't make much sense to me. I do wish others would chime in with their experiences.

.
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Woo hoo. Just got the button unscrewed. Took the spring out. Pretty proud of myself (baby steps). Lol
 

wshytle

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And Don-

I forgot but Hydro may have a point in that the thread count or length may be more critical than I implied. IOWs, if at all possible be sure and measure the thread length. If not due to breakage, thread an inch and go with it.

.
 

wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Now you can measure the darn thread/total length.

Problem solved.

.
 

hydroharry

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Wayne - the 102 has a lift arm exactly like the 122. When you look at the 102 you're gonna see it's not like the 1x8/9. The tube is welded to the bracket with the lift arms. There is no casting. I think IH came with a casting starting with the 1x4/5 series. I think the tube was welded to the 1x4/5 casting or it may have been welded on the 1x6/7 casting. Now, I don't think the casting was welded on the 1x8/9 series so I may have mis-spoke/typed in my earlier message.

Now, as far as the threaded rod with the right angle at the bottom. It's bent at the bottom on all the narrow frame tractors. It's not until the 1x8/9 series that IH started welding the 3/8" piece at an angle AND it may have been a mid-production change since your Dad's 128 didn't have it and was never worked over.

That's MY STORY and I'm stickin' to it


Don - <font size="+2">YA HOO!!!!! </font> Glad you got the button off. CC Specialties has the new spring Part No. 932-3023. Wish you could clean up the threads on the top of the rod but you have to remove it to do that. I'd certainly fill up the hole in the button with grease before re-installing. The BIGGER question is finding the right size washer - that will barely fit inside the tube and have a center hole big enough to fit over the rod. Hope it's just a standard size washer. Please make sure you let us know.

Pics would be really nice for everyone to see your project as you proceed.
I got a feeling this is gonna come up more often as these tractors break thru the half century mark in life.
 

wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Hydro-

It's times like these when we all miss people like Myron Bounds. I have no idea as to the facts here. Myron Bounds may have provided all of the resources needed knowing (or hearing about) all of the resources he had on this subject.

I will go out and mess with the 102 and try and help this situation as bet I can. I also can't depend on what I find as any source of dependent knowledge of what was because of these things called POs.

I would like for you to think about the addition of a welded 3/8" dowel vs the bending of an existing 5/16" rod. And also ask yourself, why were there so many rods that were simply a bent 5/16" rod that "fit" so much better in the ratchet (and not at a ridiculous 90* angle)?

Charlie, where the heck are you??? Don't you remember? Dennis Frisk was very firm on his opinion as I remember over this discussion of the lift arm. We all had a grand ole time.

.

.
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Well Wayne - I honestly thought a lot about the 3/8" dowel being welded at an angle close to 90* at the bottom of a 5/16" rod. From a factory production standpoint it's a heck of a lot more work than just putting a bend in a 5/16" rod.

I had some thoughts and ideas of why IH may have done it.
1st, if you compare the lift arm over the various earlier series, they kept beefing it up - so they knew in certain applications there was a tendency for it to bend - like lifting a rototiller.
2nd, you mentioned the 5/16" bent rod fits right into the ratchet slot. I agree on the older narrow frame series. I don't know if the ratchet slots are the same size on the 1x8/9 series. When I looked at the 1x8/9 series I think the slots may be a little longer and possibly closer together.
3rd, there is some back/forth play in the lift arm of the narrow frames and maybe IH changed to the 3/8" welded dowel on the 1x8/9 so it fit snugger and virtually had no play - which would keep the attachment at a firm fixed point.

So overall, I can't say anything for certain. I wonder if Charlie is keeping up here. He might, just might have an NOS Lift Arm Assembly for a 1x8/9 series and could tell us or even post a pic of the bottom so we could see the factory rod.

Even tho before I said
"that's my story and I'm stickin' to it"
I guess I have to consider this a Paul Harvey moment and someone will come back with
"And now for the rest of the story".
 

dmcphee

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Don McPhee
Harry - Pics attached of my work this afternoon.

(Hope this kinda stuff doesn't bore you guys or take up too much space on the site). It is fun and hope I can fix this by myself.

The weird thing is I am approaching this problem from the top (rather than the bottom like we discussed above).

Looks like the washer is really worn. Quite possible the washer isn't keeping the rod held up when the spring engages. Not sure. Will work on it more tomorrow. Meanwhile my lawn will have to wait...or I'll have to push mower it (gasp)

322776.jpg


322777.jpg


322778.jpg


322779.jpg
 

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