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Archive through July 27, 2012
- Thread starter thoffman
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
jchamberlin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2010
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- 1,842
- Location
- Farmville, North Carolina
- displayname
- Jeremiah Chamberlin
All: Learned something about my tractor the other day. When I installed the correct spark plugs for my engine (identified on the forum a few months back), my motor instantly stopped smoking on start-up. I haven't seen smoke since, and sometimes it used to put out quite a cloud.
My re-powered 782 uses a Kohler Magnum 18 motor, so while the plugs in this example won't be the same as for the single-cylinder models, the principle is the same. Sometimes "good enough" just won't do!
The correct plug for my motor is a Champion RV17YC, the engine came to me in a working off-topic tractor using AC Delco R45TS. The engine never missed, always started (with the choke set correctly), and I would never have thought to change the plugs except for the posting on this forum and my compulsive need to "get things right." Sometimes my puttering around actually results in an improvement.
Examine the pictures of the two plugs below, I'm guessing that the AC Delco R45TS has a slightly different heat range, but gosh, it is certainly compares closely to the Champion RV17YC and I can see where a typical counterman might "cross" the number. I had to order the Champion in order to procure it.
An expert plug reader could probably tell from looking at the R45TS that it was the wrong heat range, I'm just not that experienced.
Just for the record, while the results may be prettier and easier for the site administrator, I have to say, I don't like the new image size restrictions. I was getting pretty good at keeping the file size down while keeping the image display fairly large, now I have to worry about both factors. I must have re-sized the Comparison shot ten times before I got it would upload, and this AFTER I had cropped it and re-sized to a height of 600. It is now 401 H x 800 W. I guess I'll just be sure to get BOTH the 600 AND the 800 before worrying about the 100 Kilobytes . . . grumble, grumble, moan, and complain.
My re-powered 782 uses a Kohler Magnum 18 motor, so while the plugs in this example won't be the same as for the single-cylinder models, the principle is the same. Sometimes "good enough" just won't do!
The correct plug for my motor is a Champion RV17YC, the engine came to me in a working off-topic tractor using AC Delco R45TS. The engine never missed, always started (with the choke set correctly), and I would never have thought to change the plugs except for the posting on this forum and my compulsive need to "get things right." Sometimes my puttering around actually results in an improvement.
Examine the pictures of the two plugs below, I'm guessing that the AC Delco R45TS has a slightly different heat range, but gosh, it is certainly compares closely to the Champion RV17YC and I can see where a typical counterman might "cross" the number. I had to order the Champion in order to procure it.
An expert plug reader could probably tell from looking at the R45TS that it was the wrong heat range, I'm just not that experienced.
Just for the record, while the results may be prettier and easier for the site administrator, I have to say, I don't like the new image size restrictions. I was getting pretty good at keeping the file size down while keeping the image display fairly large, now I have to worry about both factors. I must have re-sized the Comparison shot ten times before I got it would upload, and this AFTER I had cropped it and re-sized to a height of 600. It is now 401 H x 800 W. I guess I'll just be sure to get BOTH the 600 AND the 800 before worrying about the 100 Kilobytes . . . grumble, grumble, moan, and complain.
CHARLIE - Nope, I didn't want to get into that with her. As a "City Girl" I imagine she was used to using the Sears Catalog back when they still printed them.
JEREMIAH - I spent some time a couple months ago researching spark plug cross references. The first number(s) on a Champion is always the heat range, lower is colder, higher is hotter. What I found interesting was the SAME Autolite, Motorcraft, AC, NGK, etc brand plug crossed to everything from a D15Y to a D21 plug which was used in almost ALL Farmall gas tractors from 1939 till 1965 plus many many other brands of engines. If Champion has four plugs, D15Y, D16, D18Y, D21, to cover that usage, why can the other brands get by with ONE? The design of spark plugs for these old engines has been pretty stable for 50 yrs., actually more like 70.
I've used brands of plugs other than Champion, but really haven't had much different luck with them. I have blown up engines from running too hot of spark plugs. If I change heat ranges, I normally go colder, then the chance of detonation is reduced with a slightly increased chance of fouling. To fire properly, the plug has a certain temperature range it has to operate in. And engine load, fuel mixture, timing, compression ratio, cam timing, relative condition of the engine ALL effect the temps the plugs will be exposed to. Those conditions can all change from second to second while running.
Just looking casually at the outside features of a plug actually tells you very little about a plug. What determines heat range is buried down deep inside the guts of the plug. You need a strong magnifying glass to really examine a plug. 40-50 yrs ago Champion had a tech engineer that I think Gordon Jennings wrote one of his articles in Cycle Magazine about. He could tell VOLUMES about how an engine was tuned and ran by looking at small details of the plug.
One thing I have learned from 50+ yrs of messing with engines, with Kohler's and most other points/condenser engines, you want to use solid copper conductor plug wires and NON_resistor spark plugs. I have radios on my 72 and also my one Farmall, and that combination of plugs & wires makes for noisy reception, but there are cures for that. Both my radios run fine.
JEREMIAH - I spent some time a couple months ago researching spark plug cross references. The first number(s) on a Champion is always the heat range, lower is colder, higher is hotter. What I found interesting was the SAME Autolite, Motorcraft, AC, NGK, etc brand plug crossed to everything from a D15Y to a D21 plug which was used in almost ALL Farmall gas tractors from 1939 till 1965 plus many many other brands of engines. If Champion has four plugs, D15Y, D16, D18Y, D21, to cover that usage, why can the other brands get by with ONE? The design of spark plugs for these old engines has been pretty stable for 50 yrs., actually more like 70.
I've used brands of plugs other than Champion, but really haven't had much different luck with them. I have blown up engines from running too hot of spark plugs. If I change heat ranges, I normally go colder, then the chance of detonation is reduced with a slightly increased chance of fouling. To fire properly, the plug has a certain temperature range it has to operate in. And engine load, fuel mixture, timing, compression ratio, cam timing, relative condition of the engine ALL effect the temps the plugs will be exposed to. Those conditions can all change from second to second while running.
Just looking casually at the outside features of a plug actually tells you very little about a plug. What determines heat range is buried down deep inside the guts of the plug. You need a strong magnifying glass to really examine a plug. 40-50 yrs ago Champion had a tech engineer that I think Gordon Jennings wrote one of his articles in Cycle Magazine about. He could tell VOLUMES about how an engine was tuned and ran by looking at small details of the plug.
One thing I have learned from 50+ yrs of messing with engines, with Kohler's and most other points/condenser engines, you want to use solid copper conductor plug wires and NON_resistor spark plugs. I have radios on my 72 and also my one Farmall, and that combination of plugs & wires makes for noisy reception, but there are cures for that. Both my radios run fine.
Thank you, Harry.
I was able to fit the side panels in place, after moving the front grill forward about an eighth of an inch or so. I do stand corrected on the terminology, too. As for the idle, I think the next move is to take the thing to a small engine specialist who can adjust the carburetor. That part is beyond me. As for the side panels, I have read and heard that they assist in cooling the engine. I think they look pretty good on there, too. Unfortunately, they make it difficult to turn the fuel on and off.
I was able to fit the side panels in place, after moving the front grill forward about an eighth of an inch or so. I do stand corrected on the terminology, too. As for the idle, I think the next move is to take the thing to a small engine specialist who can adjust the carburetor. That part is beyond me. As for the side panels, I have read and heard that they assist in cooling the engine. I think they look pretty good on there, too. Unfortunately, they make it difficult to turn the fuel on and off.
Brian, if you have the carb thats adjustable it's not that hard to do. Familiarize yourself with the three setting screws. One lays horizontal on top of the carb and set the idle RPM. One sets the idle mixture, it goes into the carb at an about a 45 degree angle. The one on top pointed straight down is the load valve, it sets your fuel mixture under a load. Setting the carb is a matter of changing the settings in order and asking yourself does it run better here or there. Ready, lets start. Remeber the load valve and idle mixture screws are neeedle valves they come out to a point and will brake off inside the carb if you crank down on them. The fail safe settings I use are about one and a half turns from "lightly" bottomed on the idle mixture and load valve screws. Set the idle RPM screw just so it will run, this may be a lot higher than you think it should be but thats okay cause it has to run to get it adjusted. Once you have the engine running Turn the idle screw to the right half a turn wait 5 seconds, is it better or worse? go back half a turn and turn to the left half a turn, which is better? When you find the answer turn the idle RPM screw down a little. Repeat untill you have an idle in the 5-600 RPM range and go on to your load valve.
The load valve is the fun one. Start at idle and crack the throttle to full speed. If it stumbles and smokes black or smells gassy turn the load valve in (right) a quarter or half turn. Start back at idle and crack to full throttle again, if it stumbles without the gassy smell turn the screw out (left) keep making the adjustments untill it will accelerate smooth and steady. This is all assuming the carb is in good enough shape to start with. If you make the idle adjuments or load valve adjustment and nothing affects the way the engine runs, the carb needs cleaned out or the gas line or gas tank itself is dirty or could be as simple as a float adjusment. Your not out anything to try. don't forget to set your idle back up. Mine idle around 6-800 I think the setting is 1000?
A few weeks ago I replaced the throw out bearing on the 126. Works much better with a lot less noise.
Problem is, sometimes if I leave it running in neutral for a minute the drive shaft starts to spin and then when I try to shift into gear (with pedal down) it grinds its way into gear. Any suggestions?
Note: I can (very carefully of coarse) stop the shaft by dragging my fingers on it so what ever is causing it to turn is not much. It just doesn't want to stop by depressing the clutch.
Same subject different question. Is there a "correct procedure" for for adjusting the tension of the nut on the clutch rod thats attached to the clutch/brake pedal?
Thanks!
Problem is, sometimes if I leave it running in neutral for a minute the drive shaft starts to spin and then when I try to shift into gear (with pedal down) it grinds its way into gear. Any suggestions?
Note: I can (very carefully of coarse) stop the shaft by dragging my fingers on it so what ever is causing it to turn is not much. It just doesn't want to stop by depressing the clutch.
Same subject different question. Is there a "correct procedure" for for adjusting the tension of the nut on the clutch rod thats attached to the clutch/brake pedal?
Thanks!
Several years ago I bought a 123 for parts. It was kinda like someone buying a calf to raise to butcher then getting attached to it and having a 1000 pound pet. I just couldn't kill the 123! So I did some repairs and eventually parked it for a future project. Yesterday I pulled it out and cleaned it up for pictures. While going over it I remembered a few of the "repairs" the previous owner had made. The one that really gets to me is the battery box.
The battery must have died and the PO didn't want to spend $25 for the correct battery. He must have had a spare car battery but it wouldn't fit. He then made a very crude vertical cut on the sides of the battery box at the point where the sides are attached to the control stand. Then he bent the sides flat. It looked like he then set the large battery in place and used a hammer to "form" the sides into a new box, using the battery as a forming template.
I remember thinking what an ass this guy was. I've made most of the corrections to bring it back to the original position. When I looked at it yesterday I thought maybe the guy lived 30 miles from town or maybe he was flat broke and did what he had to do. Maybe it bothered him as much as it does me but he had to get the thing running. Anyway, this thing had some real doosy "repairs" on it.
I know many of you have posted photos of the stuff I'm talking about.
The battery must have died and the PO didn't want to spend $25 for the correct battery. He must have had a spare car battery but it wouldn't fit. He then made a very crude vertical cut on the sides of the battery box at the point where the sides are attached to the control stand. Then he bent the sides flat. It looked like he then set the large battery in place and used a hammer to "form" the sides into a new box, using the battery as a forming template.
I remember thinking what an ass this guy was. I've made most of the corrections to bring it back to the original position. When I looked at it yesterday I thought maybe the guy lived 30 miles from town or maybe he was flat broke and did what he had to do. Maybe it bothered him as much as it does me but he had to get the thing running. Anyway, this thing had some real doosy "repairs" on it.
I know many of you have posted photos of the stuff I'm talking about.
Thought of something else. The yellow paint on the cast iron grill of the 123 (built april of 67) is coming off. I expect to see the burnt red primer under the paint but this has white. It appears to be the base coat or primer. Did IH use white or did someone strip this and repaint?
Had never seen this so I thought I would ask the Old Heads!
Had never seen this so I thought I would ask the Old Heads!
Bob Proctor
I would say it has been repainted. IH did not use a primer on the production Cub Cadets. They did use a dark red sealer on the cast iron parts that would contain a fluid, such as the transmission/rear end.
There is no "tension" on the nut on the clutch rod, but that nut does have a correct procedure to adjust the clutch, and that can be found in the service manuals that can be found on line on this site and others. The drive shaft probably turns because you got the engine cocked or "not square" to the drive shaft when you installed the new throw-out bearing, which puts a bind, or causes a drag, on the shaft by the pilot bushing. To correct it, loosen the engine mount bolts slightly and try to line the engine up so it is straight in the frame (the holes for the mount bolts are a bit oversize to allow the engine to be positioned correctly). An easy way to do this is to ensure there is an equal amount of the three clutch driver pins protruding through the clutch disc (position the pins at the 12, 4, and 8 o'clock position). If the engine is cocked/not square, one of those pins will not protrude through the disc as far as the others.
I would say it has been repainted. IH did not use a primer on the production Cub Cadets. They did use a dark red sealer on the cast iron parts that would contain a fluid, such as the transmission/rear end.
There is no "tension" on the nut on the clutch rod, but that nut does have a correct procedure to adjust the clutch, and that can be found in the service manuals that can be found on line on this site and others. The drive shaft probably turns because you got the engine cocked or "not square" to the drive shaft when you installed the new throw-out bearing, which puts a bind, or causes a drag, on the shaft by the pilot bushing. To correct it, loosen the engine mount bolts slightly and try to line the engine up so it is straight in the frame (the holes for the mount bolts are a bit oversize to allow the engine to be positioned correctly). An easy way to do this is to ensure there is an equal amount of the three clutch driver pins protruding through the clutch disc (position the pins at the 12, 4, and 8 o'clock position). If the engine is cocked/not square, one of those pins will not protrude through the disc as far as the others.
I know I probably sholdn't post it here but I don't want to start a new thread in the "sandbox". I recorded a episode of "Great Lakes Worriors" on the History channel the other day and when you record something you get a few seconds of the previous show. In that short few seconds I saw a Cub Cadet Original on fire or smoke bomb near it or ???? Did anyone see that show or know what show it was.
wsdrake
Well-known member
Hello everyone, i just wanted to share my new tractor with y'all. I bought this off of a friend for $325, and it came with the Ag/Bar tires, the Blade, the Mower Deck (44 inches), and all the original manuals. I am the 2nd owner of this tractor. After rebuilding the carburetor, installing new headlights, fixing the electrical for the lights, installing a new toggle switch for the lights, installing a fuel filter, rewiring for the factory horn, and just washing it off, it is done. I am really proud of this tractor, and has become one of my prized possessions. Here is a picture of it. I may post more later. Hope you like it as much as i do. Thanks for looking. Bill.
Hello everyone. I just got my first cub cadet the other day. I got a 1961 international cub cadet with serial number 4882. it came with a snow plow, mower deck, and original ih tire chains. the plow and deck are in mint condition with no rust. deck spins freely and is very quiet. i asked a couple frieds that collect cub cadets if they have ever seen the tire chains before. none of them have! i was wondering if they are really that rare that nobody has seen them before. thank you ralph
Charlie was here.
Charlie was here.
