Archive through August 29, 2012

[mgonitzke]

Ken-

I suspect a QL with solid mounts would vibrate more than a previous series tractor with a solid mounted engine. Since solid-mounting the engine in a QL is not as rigid as bolting the engine directly to the frame, more vibration is likely. From what I've heard from most people that have used the solid mounts, that's true.

 

[dtanner]

Just a thought guys, IF I had what I thought was to much vibration after replacing my mounts on a ql . I think the next step would be to pull the fan shroud and check the flywheel for missing fins. All my tractors run smooth when run at 1/2 throttle and above ,But the diesel 1512 does run the best for slow running . I would check them to see how many fins are missing . The fly wheel could have spun on the shaft also and this would cause a bad vibration.

 

[pbell]

Brian B
I believe you are thinking of one behind a 1x2 or 123 that was built by either Steve or Scott Urschel. As Tom said, it was a home built, one off custom. The rear PTO on a gear drive Cub Cadet only turns 514 rpm at 3600 engine rpm, kinda slow to drive anything really. Don't confuse the rear PTO's in the gear drive Cub Cadets with the rear PTO on the 982 super (and CCC/MTD built clones) that turns 2000rpm and is driven off the back of the hydro pump. There was a tiller, and maybe other stuff, made for them.

 

[dfrisk]

PAUL - The other bad things about the rear PTO on GD CC's was it turned the wrong way from a standard ASAE PTO, and the splines on the output shaft were finer and smaller than the std 540 RPM shaft. I think Charlie and a couple others here have the conversion gear box made by Hub City that converted it to a standard rotation 540 RPM & shaft size.

The rear PTO on SGT's had a 48 inch tiller that mounted on the 3-pt, also a 4 ft rough cut mower from IH/MTD, plus I've seen things like lawn sprayers made to attach to the 3-pt & rear PTO on them. I briefly considered making my BIG sprayer, 55-60 gallon tank fit on the 982, the pump is rated for 2600 RPM, so the 2000 rpm PTO would have been a bit too slow, and the hydro wouldn't supply repeatable speeds, close but no way to check & confirm speeds without GPS... So I made it to fit my small cart like the little sprayer. This way I have my choice of ALL the CC's and can even spray with either of my big Farmalls.

 

[kide]

Don - as far as engine balance, that 3 cylinder Kubota is an entirely different animal - I would expect it to be pretty well balanced, especially at the lower speeds. Just a question - what engine RPM did they recommend running that engine at for normal duty like running a mower deck?

 

[dschwandt]

OK, I give up, What does GD mean??
Gear drive??

Dave S.

 

[ssouhrada]

GD = Gear Drives. You're right.

 

[pbell]

Denny,
It also turned backwards on the Farmall Cub, and at engine speed, 1200 to 1800 rpm depending on the model. Before someone asks, the CC engine turns counter-clockwise but the gear reduction on the front of the CC trans changes the direction of the PTO to clockwise. The Farmall Cub engine turns clockwise, but the gear reduction is on the axle drop boxes, after the transmission, so the PTO turns clockwise like the engine.

 

[dtanner]

Gerry Ide

I was out on the bike all day , the wind up here took the fun out of the ride. My 1512 is set to turn 3600 rpm at wot.I found with the 450 snow blower it will move snow at wot .But unless I use an attachment that needs a given speed I usually run much slower than WOT.

 

[mgonitzke]

Gerry-

The diesel's low idle is rough, and there's another rough spot at about 1/3 throttle. Very smooth at 3600 rpm.

 

[bjamison]

A few 169 questions...

I was reading an add in the classifieds by Hydro Harry and thought I'd ask a few questions here - rather than try to discuss it there.

I think I understand the 13 fin 16 hp engines - the 16 hp I have for my 1650 (presently has a 14 hp engine in it) is 12 fin.

Why did the 169 have a dual hole quiet style air cleaner? Was this mostly for noise or just more filter media and/or less restriction to enhance performance? Were these air cleaner set-ups offered as options on other hp Kohler engines used in IHCC tractors?

The 169, I gather has a larger muffler. Was this specific to the K431? Was the intent for noise reduction only or driven my back pressure requirements of the engine? Was this larger muffler offered as an option on other Kohler engines used on IHCC tractors?

I take it the 169 was made in limited quantities where as the 1650 had a long production run - I see a goodly number of 1650 tractors for sale and almost never a 169.

 

[wcompton]

Bill-
169's are good hard workers, the K341 has great torque, but they have noticeably more "bark" when they're running hard. I believe they had the noise supression items to help mitigate this. When I first got my 169, the first thing to be replaced was the muffler. It was only a mild improvement. I think Kohler and IH worked hard on a solution, but the best solution was in the QL series (ok, the ultimate solution was to can all the pull-through engineering and clean-sheet the 82 series).

As far as the air cleaner, I think the sealed base and two holes was solely to focus noise away from the operator. The size of the air cleaner probably wasn't necessary. The same size carb was found on some K321's and those got by just fine with a smaller air cleaner. I think the idea of the "quiet kit" was short lived when IH designed side panels and forward airflow up through the pedestal and out through the grille on the QL series.

 

[ksanders]

These are for Mike Patterson per the for sale ad. The "red" tractor is just my 982. Optioned out including the rare power steering assist and replacement Onan motor. I also have the Haban 60" deck.

 

[dfrisk]

BILL - As I understand it, the 13 fin K341's are able to be bored to a 4 inch diameter piston allowing for even more CID & HP. Plus they have an extra head bolt/stud and the extra bolt/stud is right where they always blow the head gasket. This makes the head, cooling shroud for the head, the head gasket, and actually the block "Special" (ohh...I HATE that word! Always means More Expensive & harder to find!)

Wyatt kept his 169 here for a while, and it would do things at idle that my 129 struggled to do at half throttle, and once you opened them up it was NO CONTEST.

IH was never Big on "Options" on CC's, yes, there were lights & cigar lighters, different tires, hyd lifts, elec. lifts, PTO's, weights, duals, etc. but for the most part, dealers ordered them the way they thought they could sell them sitting off the showroom floor. And that means keeping the price in line with the competition, so not many options. Lots of that type of stuff on CC's was added after the first buyer bought the tractor to adapt the tractor to a specific job or need.

While the larger 169 mufflers & air cleaners will fit right on any smaller 10 to 14 HP CC engine, they weren't really "Options". You could buy them as parts and add them after you got the tractor.

SON & I always lament about this urban myth that engines "Need back pressure in the exhaust to run right". Truth is, ALL engines run with some amount of back pressure, but if tuned properly, the less back pressure the better the engine will run. The only possible exception to that statement would be a 2-stroke engine with some qualifying conditions. Exhaust restriction on a 2-stroke increases piston temperature which will cause piston scoring & seizure.

 

[dtanner]

Kevin Sanders

Could you post a few more pictures of that steering assist ? I thought they were all mounted aside the left frame rail

.

Denny I put full flow 4" SS on my truck and really did not see much power increase. But cylinder temps did go down about 200 deg and the sound was much deeper. I can now hear the turbo whistle out of the 5" tail pipes lol.
I have a power steering unit here and have not made up my mind as to what tractor to install it on.The 129 loader would benefit ,but I think it would be real hard on the rest of the steering component's.the 1512 would just be a wast because it has the three turn box and steers real easy now.Might have to move the loader over to the diesel if I can come up with a mod for the exhaust so the loader arm won`t hit it .

 

[dfrisk]

DON - There's general guidelines for sizing exhaust diameter for the HP the engine produces. I have my PSD straight piped with 3-1/2" tubing and it's plenty big for my stock PSD. I still have the stock downpipe which is terrible, about 4 inches wide and maybe 1 inch thick. But to put anything different in I have to bend or cut my firewall and THAT ain't happening. Just an invitation for rust here in Wisconsin. I get plenty of turbo whistle even at idle. The stock muffler was straight through, but the resonator was what was doing all the muffling. When I pulled the muffler off when the truck was about a year old it made no difference in the sound. When the resonator came off it sounded GOOD!

I have a 1-1/2" exh on my K321 which is actually too big, 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" would be about right, but Summit didn't sell those two sizes of "J-Bends". It still makes pretty good velocity, I can blow stuff off my work bench when I start it from ten feet away.

Like everything else, exhaust systems are a science. There's been plenty of books written on the topic.

Had to laugh, the other day another forum I lurk at had a topic about straight piping garden tractors, general consensus was NO, don't do it. But now there's another topic about those nasty old green 2-cyl farm tractors and how great they sound with straight pipes. Heck, even with the OEM mufflers you can hear them up-wind a mile away. Ahhh DEVIL Machines, they are! I'll take a good running FARMALL M any day. I used to really like when Dad & I would work the same field and run close enough We could hear both tractors pulling hard. Sent shivers up&down my back! Only thing that sounded better was a V-12 Allison or Packard airplane engine.

 

[dtanner]

Dennis Frisk
Yep Denny I have 4" off the turbo with no restrictions to the end of the tail pipes. They tell me stock will and can run 400 hp with no problems.A psd can not match a straight 6 for grunt .I hope you found the plug on that psd and drained the top end . I hear 2 quarts don`t drain down and provide oil to the injectors valley.

My 149 has not run in 4 months till today. I forget how the stack barks when I use it lol.Makes me think there is a bunch of people out there that are missing out on a better tractor that was made so long agld can be better !

 

[ksanders]

Donald,
This isn't the power steering set-up you see on newer tractors. It's a "steering assist" option as they call it offered for both the 782 and 982. It's a cylinder that's essentially a tie rod that pipes into the hydraulics. I've only seen 2-3 on the net ever. Kind of inefficient and elaborate for what it does but pretty neat.

 

[mpatterson]

Just wondering, what normally causes your engine to back fire while "working" it? Was using the 100 last night with the front blade, moving some gravel, 3 times over the course of 1/2 hour or so of work it backfired and the flames came outta the muffler? What's up with that???

 

[dfrisk]

DON - There's a reservoir on the top front of the engine for the high pressure oil pump to run the injectors. It's fed from the crank-driven gearotor oil pump keyed/pressed onto the frt of the crankshaft. It's actually part of the front cover of the engine. You don't really have to change that oil unless you switch types of oil like from mineral oil to synthetic, or vice-versa. I did my first oil change around 2100-2200 miles and have only ever used Rotella 15W-40. No need to drain that last bit of oil. My oil analysis comes back just fine every time.

I've done something over 100 oil changes in the PSD, always drained 13 quarts out and put 14 quarts in. All the oil from the pan & filter drain into a 5 gal bucket. I may have a drip or two fall off the drain plug when doing an oil change but that's it. Truck had a magnetic drain plug from the factory too.

Yes, the little in-line 6's make more torque when you lug them, but that's not good for them or a V8. I got a brochure from Hypermax right after I got my truck 16+ yrs ago, had the HP & torque charts in it stock and with their performance parts installed. The torque rise goes up really steeply around 1400 RPM, you can really feel it. The old PSD's, non-intercooled, make around 350#/ft @ 850 RPM, 425#/ft @ 2000. Then the computer pulls fuel after around 2300-2400 so it makes around 360#/ft @ 3000 RPM again to make it's 210-215 HP # 3000. Ford rated the PSD @ 210, but the Navistar sticker on the valve cover says 215. Keep in mind this is the 7.3 PSD, not the 6.0 or 6.4L.

I drove 50,000-55,000# ready-mix cement trucks summers when I was in college that had less HP than my PSD, 165 to 208 HP, they also had 15-20 forward speeds, but with the loads I carry/haul the stock PSD does just fine. Gets me 18-20 MPG highway too, and around 16-17 around town. Heck, the '70 Kenworth tandem axle tilt-cab I drove a couple days at my last driving job 27 yrs ago only had a 238 Detroit, in-line 6-71, & 10-spd Road-Ranger tranny. Loaded to 45,00-50,000# gross it'd run 55-60 O-K.

My straight pipe was made from odd & ends of the muffler & tailpipe when I took it off when the truck was a year old. And a little MIG welding. When SON & I installed the new LUK clutch around 240K we removed the resonator and installed a straight piece of 3-1/2" pipe so I could install my LUND running boards off his '93 Lightning. They were a nuicance on his truck but are great on my truck.

Not sure when I'm going to mow, Wife thinks I should have mowed every day this past week, but next week is sounding good to me. Grass really isn't growing, and frankly, I think we're in for another long dry spell after Issac blows thru. Grass may be brown again in a month!

Seeing Kevin's pic's of Mike P's 982 sure makes me miss mine. Buy SON has enjoyed it this summer.