-
This community needs YOUR help today. With the ever increasing fees of everything (server, software, domain, e-mail) , we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community to help spread our love and knowledge of IH Cub Cadets. You get a lot of great new account perks including access to private forums. If you sign up for annual, I will ship a few IH Cub Cadet Forum decals too in addition to all the account perks you get. You can see what it looks like below.
Sign up here: https://www.ihcubcadet.com/account/upgrades
Archive through August 23, 2009
- Thread starter lhinds
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Wayne M.,
I don't know how to respond to your comment on your operators manual only depicting the 147 (K321) engines as being outfitted with "dual tubes".
I can say I've received data from readers that have K301 (12HP) engines with "dual tubes" as well as K321 (14HP) engines.
Interestingly, each of these K301 (12HP) "dual tube" engines had Spec Numbers indicating they were intended as Replacement/Universal Service engines.
The data supplied at: <font color="0000ff">http://cubfaq.com/enginespecs.html </font>indicates that balance gears were installed in some K241 (10HP), K301 (12HP), K321 (14HP) and the K341 (16HP) engines.
So assuming the above referenced data to be true, it would stand to reason that some of them may have also been equipped with the "dual tube" configuration for a time period.
David C.,
Thanks for your data!
I agree with your manufacture dates.
You'll also note your Spec# 6099A = Replacement/Universal Service engine
Josh O.,
I don't think these "dual tube" engines are rare, but I do think they may have only been produced for only a couple of years.
So far, I have more reports of K321s (CC 147) than any other model. I also have some reports of "dual tube" engines that came in 107, 126, and 127 Cub Cadets.
It is my understanding that a 'Replacement' or Universal Service engine would mean the engine was a part of a whole group that was intended to be used for various uses - including being installed into Cub Cadet tractors. Then there were other engines that were specifically built to be installed into Cub Cadet tractors. I would also venture to assume that a replacement and a tractor-specific engine were the same in construction & parts, just placed into different inventories. Lastly, I would also go so far to say that it is likely that not all Cubs left the factory with a 'tractor specific' engine. That some of the Cubs left the factory with a 'Replacement' engine as its original engine.
No, I'm fairly certain that a Replacement engine DOESN'T mean it was only used in cases of replacing a previous or original engine.
Yes, my original thought was to post the Excel spreadsheet here for all to review, but now I'm wondering just how I could do that and I'm not too sure just how to do that - I may have to send it via an email or as some sort of an attachment? Any ideas?
Ryan Wilke
I don't know how to respond to your comment on your operators manual only depicting the 147 (K321) engines as being outfitted with "dual tubes".
I can say I've received data from readers that have K301 (12HP) engines with "dual tubes" as well as K321 (14HP) engines.
Interestingly, each of these K301 (12HP) "dual tube" engines had Spec Numbers indicating they were intended as Replacement/Universal Service engines.
The data supplied at: <font color="0000ff">http://cubfaq.com/enginespecs.html </font>indicates that balance gears were installed in some K241 (10HP), K301 (12HP), K321 (14HP) and the K341 (16HP) engines.
So assuming the above referenced data to be true, it would stand to reason that some of them may have also been equipped with the "dual tube" configuration for a time period.
David C.,
Thanks for your data!
I agree with your manufacture dates.
You'll also note your Spec# 6099A = Replacement/Universal Service engine
Josh O.,
I don't think these "dual tube" engines are rare, but I do think they may have only been produced for only a couple of years.
So far, I have more reports of K321s (CC 147) than any other model. I also have some reports of "dual tube" engines that came in 107, 126, and 127 Cub Cadets.
It is my understanding that a 'Replacement' or Universal Service engine would mean the engine was a part of a whole group that was intended to be used for various uses - including being installed into Cub Cadet tractors. Then there were other engines that were specifically built to be installed into Cub Cadet tractors. I would also venture to assume that a replacement and a tractor-specific engine were the same in construction & parts, just placed into different inventories. Lastly, I would also go so far to say that it is likely that not all Cubs left the factory with a 'tractor specific' engine. That some of the Cubs left the factory with a 'Replacement' engine as its original engine.
No, I'm fairly certain that a Replacement engine DOESN'T mean it was only used in cases of replacing a previous or original engine.
Yes, my original thought was to post the Excel spreadsheet here for all to review, but now I'm wondering just how I could do that and I'm not too sure just how to do that - I may have to send it via an email or as some sort of an attachment? Any ideas?
Ryan Wilke
lpalma
Well-known member
Ahhhh Yes,
I was wondering when someone was going to catch that.
When I bought it,That's what it came with, it runs like a top so why change it?
I have another 107 that has the correct 10HP motor in it,Maybe someday I will switch em so the correct police don't arrest me.....
I was wondering when someone was going to catch that.
When I bought it,That's what it came with, it runs like a top so why change it?
I have another 107 that has the correct 10HP motor in it,Maybe someday I will switch em so the correct police don't arrest me.....
kide
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 3,779
- displayname
- Gerry Ide
Ryan:
You don't believe all those "FULLY RESTORED '57 Belairs w/454/5 speed/9"/new Dakota Digital dash" either, do ya ...
Bruce:
Just got a new Mouser catalog recently (just paid 'em 14 bucks for 3 dollars worth of TNC connectors too, they really get ya on shipping...), I'll look at what they have.. I'd check the exhaust valve, put the head back on and see if it runs....remember, compression tests are difficult with the K motor's ACR working..
You don't believe all those "FULLY RESTORED '57 Belairs w/454/5 speed/9"/new Dakota Digital dash" either, do ya ...
Bruce:
Just got a new Mouser catalog recently (just paid 'em 14 bucks for 3 dollars worth of TNC connectors too, they really get ya on shipping...), I'll look at what they have.. I'd check the exhaust valve, put the head back on and see if it runs....remember, compression tests are difficult with the K motor's ACR working..
Ryan, I also have a copy of the installation and parts ordering instructions for "Universal Service Engine & Short Block for 12 HP International Harvester Tractors" publication #TT92-A, revised 7-77. The first paragraph: The #61303C91(47504) Universal Service engine replaces all Model K301A and K301AS listed below, 393172R91(4759),397816R93(47376),397816R91(47138),397816R92(47347),545449R91(47446). This was clearly published by the Kohler Co,their logo is on the front and thereis an IH logo on the back. These instructions appear to have been shipped with a new engine or short block. Detailed instructions are given as to what parts to transfer,assembly procedures, start-up and a complete parts breakdown and part numbers for the new engine. The whole thing is 10 pages,of 81/2x11. I found it at a flea market. The engine in the illustrations is like the one in my 126 as I described in my previous post.
I just tore down one of my K321AQS engines and much to my dismay I found that the bottom of the cylinder has a piece missing (well it was actually in the pan). The piece is missing from the starter side and is about 3/4 inch long and runs up the cylinder about a 1/4 inch. Is this thing OK to rebuild. If so what is the max I can oversize the bore. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Ryan; The TT92-A that Wayne has i am sure came with a replacement engine. I got my posted pictures from TT93-A Rev.3/81 This came in the box with my replacement 321.
Page 7 instructions on things to transfer from old engine. Exact Quote
#4 Dipstick-oilfill Do not transfer these parts from failed engine. Instead, Install the combination cam gear cover-oil fill tube and dip stick furnished as loose parts with the short block---This arrangement must be used with dynamic balance system.
I paid 725.00 for the engine in 82.
Page 7 instructions on things to transfer from old engine. Exact Quote
#4 Dipstick-oilfill Do not transfer these parts from failed engine. Instead, Install the combination cam gear cover-oil fill tube and dip stick furnished as loose parts with the short block---This arrangement must be used with dynamic balance system.
I paid 725.00 for the engine in 82.
Kendell I.,
YOU BURST MY BUBBLE!
Silly me, and here all along I was believing what was written by the owner/seller that "FULLY RESTORED" meant just that - with every and all Original Equipped (OE) equipment.
Seriously, I suspected that Lewis' Cub likely had an engine change along the way either by him or a previous owner. But, I had to ask - to confirm I had received the correct info from him.
Wayne M. / Luther H.,
Guys, I believe you when you say your literature depicts an engine to be a certain way. However, most of us have likely seen instructions that have illustrations that are a mere 'example' or 'typical' construction. I suspect that this was the case with your IH manuals.
In fact, from a car to a food blender, products that have many available options and/or variations, I've not seen a single manual that provided an illustration for every possible construction variance. So, it doesn't surprise me to think that IH would also also only provide illustrations of "Typical" construction in their manuals.
Ryan Wilke
YOU BURST MY BUBBLE!
Silly me, and here all along I was believing what was written by the owner/seller that "FULLY RESTORED" meant just that - with every and all Original Equipped (OE) equipment.
Seriously, I suspected that Lewis' Cub likely had an engine change along the way either by him or a previous owner. But, I had to ask - to confirm I had received the correct info from him.
Wayne M. / Luther H.,
Guys, I believe you when you say your literature depicts an engine to be a certain way. However, most of us have likely seen instructions that have illustrations that are a mere 'example' or 'typical' construction. I suspect that this was the case with your IH manuals.
In fact, from a car to a food blender, products that have many available options and/or variations, I've not seen a single manual that provided an illustration for every possible construction variance. So, it doesn't surprise me to think that IH would also also only provide illustrations of "Typical" construction in their manuals.
Ryan Wilke
I have a dual dipstick K321A, its hard to read the decal on it. Looks to be a 6099a?? and the serial number is 3036140?. The dipstick is stamped Oil Fill Only on one side, there are numbers on the other side, but I didn't write them down. I could wander clear down to the back barn if those #'s are real important
Ryan, I know my engine is not original, because it is in a Model 1100 tractor, which these guys on this forum tell me is not a cub cadet, even though it says cub cadet all over it and even has a bigger Kohler engine than must the cubs I see here.
T.G.
I have a block that originally came with my 129 that has similar damage, the PO threw a rod and tried to patch things up with just a new rod. I took it by a machine shop, and the owner said he could probably work with it. The engine had other serious issues, the crank journals were worn down beyond a standard undersize, and the piston had a chunk out of it that matched the chunk from the block. Before I tore it down, I attempted to start it. It lit off, but it quickly filled my garage with dense oily smoke. I found another K301 block with a good piston, crank and rod assembly for $25 at a flea market that I built my 129 motor around, but I'm hanging onto the block anyway.
Pistons from Kohler or from aftermarket suppliers like Stens are available in sizes up to .030 over the original bore. Still, I would take the engine block by a machine shop and have them look at it, and check for cracks that you may have overlooked. Expect to find other damage on the motor as well, pay particular attention to the crank journals, a new crank is $$$, and the old crank can only be ground down .010 to accept a standard undersize rod. It threw a rod for a reason, and I'm betting there is an issue with the crankshaft.
I have a block that originally came with my 129 that has similar damage, the PO threw a rod and tried to patch things up with just a new rod. I took it by a machine shop, and the owner said he could probably work with it. The engine had other serious issues, the crank journals were worn down beyond a standard undersize, and the piston had a chunk out of it that matched the chunk from the block. Before I tore it down, I attempted to start it. It lit off, but it quickly filled my garage with dense oily smoke. I found another K301 block with a good piston, crank and rod assembly for $25 at a flea market that I built my 129 motor around, but I'm hanging onto the block anyway.
Pistons from Kohler or from aftermarket suppliers like Stens are available in sizes up to .030 over the original bore. Still, I would take the engine block by a machine shop and have them look at it, and check for cracks that you may have overlooked. Expect to find other damage on the motor as well, pay particular attention to the crank journals, a new crank is $$$, and the old crank can only be ground down .010 to accept a standard undersize rod. It threw a rod for a reason, and I'm betting there is an issue with the crankshaft.
Mike H.,
I understand and that's enough info for me. <font color="0000ff">Your engine data tag is a sticker type, correct?</font>
I will record your Serial # and Spec # as you've provided them. Which indicates your engine was built in 1971, designated as a "Replacement/Universal Service" engine).
Thanks for your info!
The engine info is what I'm after, as I suspected I'd find other cases like Luther's which the engine was changed or upgraded in the past 20 some years...so the tractor info may not really fit the engine info. I ask for the tractor model more just for interest sake than out of necessity.
Ryan Wilke
I understand and that's enough info for me. <font color="0000ff">Your engine data tag is a sticker type, correct?</font>
I will record your Serial # and Spec # as you've provided them. Which indicates your engine was built in 1971, designated as a "Replacement/Universal Service" engine).
Thanks for your info!
The engine info is what I'm after, as I suspected I'd find other cases like Luther's which the engine was changed or upgraded in the past 20 some years...so the tractor info may not really fit the engine info. I ask for the tractor model more just for interest sake than out of necessity.
Ryan Wilke
Mike H.,
Yes, I see that it is a sticker tag. (I was typing earlier when you posted your pic).
And I see what you mean,,,, it's tuff to read!
I've seen a few like that: Reminds me of the old cowboy saying, "Been rode hard and put away wet"!
Ryan Wilke
Yes, I see that it is a sticker tag. (I was typing earlier when you posted your pic).
And I see what you mean,,,, it's tuff to read!
I've seen a few like that: Reminds me of the old cowboy saying, "Been rode hard and put away wet"!
Ryan Wilke
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Dennis/Brendan-
I have a CHT gauge on my 582. I don't have it mounted in the best location (hottest part of head) but it does work. I got 160 degrees F plowing with it. I don't think epoxy would let you get a true reading, as it is an insulator. CPU thermal paste for a computer is probably necessary between the head and sender for an accurate reading.
I have a CHT gauge on my 582. I don't have it mounted in the best location (hottest part of head) but it does work. I got 160 degrees F plowing with it. I don't think epoxy would let you get a true reading, as it is an insulator. CPU thermal paste for a computer is probably necessary between the head and sender for an accurate reading.
MATT - I've shot my old K241 twice with my old Raytech temp gun. I bought it originally to check R/C glow-engines when SON & I were racing really hard back in the mid-1990's. After mowing with the K241 for a couple hours and letting the engine idle at a medium speed (1800-2000? RPM) for a few minutes it was still reading 300-325 deg. F around the plug which I understand is about right. When mowing it would have been higher. Problem with the Raytech is they don't like all the EMI from the ignition system. After about one good reading they go "8888" and require expensive repairs. I understand my new Raytech has better shielding but I haven't tried it. I think the thermocouple under the plug would give the most accurate results, or maybe one of the head bolts between the cylinder and exh. valve. I never really did figure out where the right place for the thermocouple for EGT would be in my straight pipe. My pipe is 1-1/2" dia, just a bit bigger than necessary to allow for the restriction of the thermocouple. Also I'm not sure how accurately a single cylinder like a Kohler would even read, the exhaust flows in pulses which vary from hot to cooler. I was also a bit concerned about being able to monitor oil temp. The finger on the rod cap keeps the oil pretty well airborne and liquid oil would be required in contact with the sending unit to get an accurate reading.
When I was working for the food/chemical equipment company We had problems with the electrical enclosures over heating and components shutting down. It was odd because most of the lower surfaces of the enclosure would operate with FROST from the refridgeration system. We messed around and put a LARGE extruded aluminum heat sink into the door of the enclosure, which required ALL kinds of sealing since it was a NEMA 4 enclosure (high pressure washdown-proof) During the testing We discovered that just setting the heat sink on the top of the enclosure reduced the temp. inside the box several degrees more than installing it in a cutout IN the door. Guess We proved "Heat Rises" if nothing else!
When I was working for the food/chemical equipment company We had problems with the electrical enclosures over heating and components shutting down. It was odd because most of the lower surfaces of the enclosure would operate with FROST from the refridgeration system. We messed around and put a LARGE extruded aluminum heat sink into the door of the enclosure, which required ALL kinds of sealing since it was a NEMA 4 enclosure (high pressure washdown-proof) During the testing We discovered that just setting the heat sink on the top of the enclosure reduced the temp. inside the box several degrees more than installing it in a cutout IN the door. Guess We proved "Heat Rises" if nothing else!
bbrigham
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,000
- displayname
- Brendan Brigham
I was sitting here last week and realized my desk lamp really looked like crap, some hammered metal metallic green. Seems I've been painting my cab I thought.........why not?!?!?!......
International and Cub Cadet stickers coming next
International and Cub Cadet stickers coming next
