IH 86 series and FWA

[jstorma]

Was wondering what the production changes were made thru the years of the 86 series tractors. I was fortunate enough to be able to drive a 1586, 1486 with FWA, 1086 and a 986. I recall there was a hydraulic change from open to closed center at one point and I want to say the closed center you do not want.

The 1486 FWA had a Elwood FWA. If my memory is correct this looked like it had a large ball bearing on each side where the wheel rotated for steering. I believe it was engaged by an electromagnetic clutch. I believe they did not turn very short and you can no longer get parts for the FWA and components anymore.

There was also another brand of FWA you could get with the 86 series tractor. Who makes them and are parts also available?

I would like to be educated more on on the differences these tractors went thru the years of production and also the FWA's that were available.

Thanks

 

[sblunier]

In addition:

Steps changed on later models (wider, larger mud clean out holes)

Range transmission shift lever was reshaped to allow easier access to cab when in park on later models.

Red seat and upgraded interior on later models.

Analog tach replaced by digital data center.

I thought that Elwood was the only supplier for the 86 series....Coleman made units for the 06/56 series with large "moon" hub caps.

 

[jstorma]

Steve,

I have no idea if Elwood was the only supplier. I've seen pictures of FWA 86 series tractors and they seem to have smaller tires and a different steering knuckle arrangement. That's why I think someone else also made them too. But then again, maybe they made them different for different models Instead of one across the board.

Are there any kind of tag on the FWA's so a person knows who made them?

So those are the only changes? Seems mild.

I do like the red interior best. The western interior is ugly. Digital data center is very nice in the 1086 I drove. Now recalling it had an electric over hydraulic locking differential. The 1486 had a mechanical. Only seen pictures of the updated shifting lever never saw one in person.

 

[sblunier]

Our 1486 is an early one (1978) but only has 2900 hrs! We have the all original model with none of the upgrades (as evidenced by the bruise on your shin every time you get in the cab from the park lock....

)

 

[jstorma]

Wow! Must not have been used much. Hopefully someday I can own one when I have the room and a place to use it.

 

[dfrisk]

JIM - I worked at FARMALL in a couple different positions during the 86-series production. ELWOOD was the ONLY supplier of FWA axles on the 86-series. The prior axle, the American Coleman axle was used on the '06 & '56 series, not sure if an axle was even offered on a '66 series.

Elwood offered axles direct to farmers, to dealers, and to FARMALL for attaching at the plant. There were three different styles of mounting brackets used during the three years I dealt with Elwood. They were one of the suppliers I scheduled parts from. Elwwod supplied everything except the tires. They brought in the axle, wheels, mounting bracket or saddle, driveshaft, and transfer case, the gearbox that bolted to the side of the transmission.

Steve B. is correct, easy way to confirm an Elwood axle is the size of the planetary hub in the front wheels. The American Coleman has a BIG domed cover that fills most of the frt wheels, the Elwood has a small hub, maybe 8 inches in diameter on their DANA axles. ALL axles Elwood supplied direct to Farmall used Dana axles. Early in Elwood's production they used front axles from surplus ARMY 6X6's that did not have protruding planetary hubs. Those axles were made LONG before they supplied axles direct to FARMALL. Elwood became an approved IH supplier in the 1960's supplying FWA axles for 560's & 660's but everything was done thru dealers or direct with farmer's, nothing supplied to Farmall. Same axle fit an M too.

There were to partners at Elwood. Don Johnson was the design engineer, the brains, Dick Pettigrew was a retired farmer IIRC, the Money! Rick King, the Police Chief of beautiful Elwood, Illinois was the plant manager, the guy I call with questions, comments, or criticism.

There's a company called "TRAC-4" that I think might still be in business. It's a one woman company, and last I knew years ago she could talk to Don Jones and supply most parts. There's also a repair shop in Pennsylvania that can supply about anything for a FWA IH tractor too.

Elwood was basically an overgrown ambitious welding shop, but back in the late 1970's & early '80's they were the busiest 20-man shop around trying to keep up with FARMALL'S demand for axles. We would only build two FWA tractors a day, ten per week. But when the 786's came out we built ten FWA 786's every week for 2-3 months!

 

[kmcconaughey]

Denny,

GREAT to see you post!

 

[sblunier]

Denny,

Looks like the 66's were primarily Coleman units.....

 

[jstorma]

Hi Dennis! First I've seen a post from you in a L-O-N-G time.

I was actually hoping you would chime in as I know from your many post that you worked at at Farmall and would bring a great knowledge to this thread.

Do you happen to know why there were different styles of mounting brackets? One better than the other?

Also, Did Elwood supply FWA for the 88 series?

I'll have to do a search on trac-4 one of these days shortly.

 

[sblunier]

Jim,

I am 99% sure the 88 series used IH designed FWA components, because the drive shaft was center line mounted out of the front center of the trans case. That is not to say that the axle itself wasn't made by a 3rd party (Elwood, Dana, etc). I do know that it was a huge departure from any FWA that was previously used due to the driveshaft relocation.

88's were the first to be designed with the addition of FWA specifically in mind, not an "add-on"

 

[dfrisk]

Jim, Steve - You have to treat the 88-series as two separate models. The 3088/3288/3488/3688 could have used an Elwood axle. The rear ends were the same as the '06 to '86's.

The 5088/5288/5488 were all new, center line drive for the FWA axle. Not sure who IH got the axle from, I never heard a word about a FWA 88-series while I was still a FARMALL. Since I was in charge of Elwood, really good chance I would have ordered the axles for 5088/5288/5488's too.

IH changed from the 2-piece front bolster to the one piece and that caused most of the changes in mounting design for Elwood. The frt axle mount first used bolted to the frame rails on the side. The second style had a low profile curved fabricated bar across the top side of the axle from spring perch to spring perch and it pinned into place. There was I think a second design of that mount but can't find specifics. The last design was a dedicated Elwood/IH axle housing casting that simply pinned right onto the one piece bolster. Once the transfer case and steering hoses were sorted out you could switch between FWA to 2WD or back in about an hour.

Elwood was not real happy with International. All IH's advertising was on the 2+2, entire color printed books were dedicated to the 2+2's, the Elwood FWA option typically got one small 2"x2" picture in the annual Buyers Guide. Elwood wanted to ship at least the majority of their axles to FARMALL. The farmer & dealer orders were the bulk of their business and were always needed ASAP and were regional in nature. Poor dairy farmers trying to chop silage in a wet fall was always good for lots of emergency orders. Instead of making Elwood's business easier to plan, supplying FARMALL AND the dealers/farmers made their business exponentially harder to plan. You didn't NOT ship to FARMALL when a dealer/farmer ordered an axle.

I got involved in some neat things with Elwood. Son Jones called me one day, put in a rush order for a pair of tires/wheels. He needed a pair of 16x38 1586 dual wheels, 10-bolt hubs, with 16.9x38 R-1 tires, GY if possible. I walked the paperwork around and let the supervisors know what was going one. Month later Don Jones and Rick King paid me a visit. They built a Hydro 186 Hi-Clear Front Wheel Assist! They only had one picture of it that I could see but not keep.The Engineers at Hinsdale wanted to see if it was possible. They drove to Elwood and played with it for 2-3 hours, took lots of pictures, then went home. Elwood took the tractor apart and returned all the borrowed parts.

 

[sblunier]

Denny,

Yup, forgot about the 30 series.....basically 86 series with new sheet metal and electronic TA'a......and Elwood axles.

Amen on the 2x2 photo!!!!

from 1980-81 buyers guide...right before the 88 series were released......nice tri-stripe 86 series!!!!

 

[dfrisk]

One of the other running changes Elwood made was to use a little electrically operated clutch in the t-case to engage/disengage the frt axle. No more big lever sticking up thru the floor, you could use something like a dimmer switch to engage on-the-go. Part of the durability testing Hinsdale required was a 1000 hour test on a special 1486 that had no ring gear on the rear differential. All power would go thru the FWA axle. According to Don Jones it had speed sensors so it engaged the front axle at 10 mph and ran up to full speed in road gear then disengaged and coasted to ten mph and engaged again. Dumping all 145 HP to the front axle was a pretty severe test! One of the components in the clutch had two 1/4" dowel pins pressed into it, the mating holes were about .002" oversize from what Don requested, he wanted .003" interference fit, the machinist only gave him .001" interference. So after just over 950 hours of the 1000 hour test one of the dowel pins came loose and fell out. Don had a major fit! A new mating part was made and the dowel holes were machined to .003" interference. The test engineers understood Don's explanation of what went wrong with the first test and told Don if the second part lasted 100 hours they would consider the test successful and approved for production. Yeah, it passed! I don't think the 1486's rear end would survive having all 145 HP dumped into it with a sudden jerk like that every minute or sooner for 1000 hours!

One of the little unpublished benefits of the Elwood FWA was the IH rear end lasted longer with 30-40% of the HP going to the front axle.

 

[jstorma]

The planetary gear hubs in Steves picture look like the one I use to drive. Ones I've seen lately on the web seem to have hub caps or something on them. Also, the one I drove; could have been fitted with different tires all around because the the front end was jacked up making the tractor look like it was leaning backwards.

I did a search and did find a phone number for trac-4. I wonder if replacement parts are expensive and if you could get a whole kit.

Because of there age, what needs to be looked at for wear spots that need to be corrected. If I remember correctly the hydraulic pumps only lasted about 3500 hours give or take before the red warning light would come on at idle. Would one suspect the transmission gears and all to be wore out if it has about 7000 hours on it?

I did not know the 2+2's had an electronic T/A. I did get to move one once about 6ft ahead for someone so they could blow there snap-lage in a different wagon.

 

[jchamberlin]

Thank you, Denny, for spelling out Front Wheel Assist so dummies like me wouldn't have to ask what FWA meant. Interesting thread. Jim, thank you for the question, we're all getting an education.

Edit: Good to see you post again, Denny. I asked Charlie where you had been and he enlightened me.

Another Edit: Thank you, Steve, for the photo, every thread needs at least one, and yours is great.

 

[sblunier]

"Hub caps" are used on the Coleman axles on the earlier machines.

 

[jstorma]

Another thought.... Can Elwood FWA kits be swapped out between different model 86 series tractors? Such as if one was on a 1486, could it be removed and installed on a 1086 or 1586 without issue? I know the 15 was only 3 speed high/low and I believe the 14 and 1086 had the same rear end/transmission 4 speed high/low just different engines. I also believe the 986 had a lighter rear end and had the same engine as the 14 and 15 but naturally aspirated (no turbo) and smaller clutch.


If you can swap them out, do you need to remove the cab and have any machining work done to the transmission? I guess what I'm asking is,how hard is it to swap out and what needs to be done? Probably more work than it is worth.

And why would someone order an 86 series tractor from the factory without a T/A?!?!

 

[dfrisk]

No machining to attach the drive gearbox was needed. IH did the machining for a cover plate.

I'd have to look at my Elwood catalog to get specific, but there were two reduction ratios in the planetary hubs and I think there were two driven gears for the drive gear box. Only one ratio for the ring and pinion of the front driving axle. You could change effective ratio by changing front tire size too. All those factors would have to be looked at pulling an axle off one tractor and putting it on another. You wanted the front axle to be over-driven just a bit all the time. We put axles on everything from 786's to 1586's. The drive gear for the gearbox wasn't normally in a H-186, but if the driving gear was installed they worked even better with FWA.

There's a shop in Pa., Leaman's Tractor Parts that knows lots about IH and Elwood axles. Elwood axles get discussed frequently at Red Power forum too. An axle in good shape with all the components to install, the gearbox, driveshaft, steering cylinder, and whatever mounting bracket used, there were FOUR!, gets expensive. Most you find for sale were removed for a reason and are worn and missing parts.
But for the most part any axle could be mounted on any 86-series. I only had one part number of axle to fit 786 to 1586.