I have this engine that is labeled a K301. It sure sound heafrier that a 12hp. I don't think the ID tag is correct. Is the engine schroud the same on all quiet line Kohlers? Another thing I noticed is that it has 13 fins. Does any other Kohlers have a 13 fin block?? It also has a fuel pump and a different base. Is there a way of ID'ing this engine without tearing it down? I also want to now if a IH Cub Cadet correct pan can be installed? I'm thinking that this engine was used on a commercial aplication with more oil capacity with the taller base and having a fuel pump the gas tank would be remote. Any thoughts???
ID this engine
- Thread starter thoffman
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fcurrier
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Tom: K301 (AQS)
Now let's check out the spec # 47541d
http://www.kohlerengines.com/manuals/engineIdentification.htm
I hope that works for you better than it does for me.
Now let's check out the spec # 47541d
http://www.kohlerengines.com/manuals/engineIdentification.htm
I hope that works for you better than it does for me.
Frank, I know it says K301AQS, but look at the base. I think its a Non-Cub Cadet engine in there. This engine was shoe horned into a 1100 and sit up way to high to have a straight shot into the trans. Again, do other Kohler have the 13 fin block?
lpalma
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Tom,
The head bolts will tell you if it is a 16 hp more than likely it is a k241 -k301.
The head bolts will tell you if it is a 16 hp more than likely it is a k241 -k301.
hydroharry
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Tom - you just gotta keep up with all the postings on the Forum. Awhile back I believe some of the guys checked their 12 and 14hp engines and stated they had 13 fins. I don't know about the 10hp. I think the 16 is the only one changed from 13 to 12 fins. Now, you're thinking it sounds "heafrier" than a 12hp - but you didn't post a pic of the muffler. I'll bet it's a 12hp and the sound is fooling you. As far as changing the oil pan, there may be a chance. If you would'a checked the Charlie's FAQs you would find a picture by Don Vogt showing the bottom of 3 versions of Kohler blocks with the oil pans removed. Based on the pic you posted with a side view of the base on yours I think you may actually have the John Deere version, which I think isn't as tall as the standard Kohler version. I also think this because the tag on the shroud is K301AQS and the A identifies a special oil pan. So, can you install a Cub oil pan? Yes, but it takes some work. I believe you have to remove the current pan and cut the ears off the block. If you look at the pic by Don Vogt I believe you have the middle style block. If you have the standard Kohler block, shown on the left in Don Vogt's pic, I believe the problem is the machined cut out areas. Not sure how you fill those in. I still suspect you have the JD version since you also have the fuel pump which I believe most of the JDs did use, and because of the "A" in the spec no on the shroud. So, you could pull the engine, pull the pan and head and find out what size it is for sure. And you could see if when you remove the current pan if you have the machined cut out's. Or you could probably go over the a JD Forum and find some information on the Kohler engine "spec no." used on the 12hp JD engines. I'll bet you have a JD version with a JD muffler.
Here's the pic from the FAQ, left is standard Kohler block, middle JD block, and right is CC block.
Here's the pic from the FAQ, left is standard Kohler block, middle JD block, and right is CC block.
hydroharry
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Tom - well, after checking some other sites I see you may not have a JD engine. The JD 12hp seems to be Spec No. 47640d and you have Spec No. 47541d - so it's back to the grind again. I guess you'll have to pull the engine and remove the pan, or at least look further at your base, maybe send a pic to Don Vogt to see if he can ID it.
HARRY - Seems like JD used a different style/spec engine in each model of 12 Hp tractor they built. Quite obviously their engineers & product managers didn't comprehend the concept of "Standardized parts". They did the same thing with their attachments too.
That's probably the #1 reason I'll never own one.
That's probably the #1 reason I'll never own one.
jdiederichs
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Tom,
I think that spec is correct, a 12 HP for an International Harvester Cub Cadet. However, it sure appears to have the sump adapter bolted up to it that converts a narrow base (CC style block) to a wide base (such as Deere and many others used). If you look at the parts breakdown for that spec it does show the narrow based block. In that picture it also shows the basic sump adapters offered, although not used on this engine. It would be my guess that someone used the IH spec and added the adapter to help with acheiving the correct alignmnet for the driveline. That is not the typical mounting for an 1100 as you may know, just what someone decided to make. The 1100 used the same Iso- mounts as the other Quietline models.
I know what you are saying, it doesn't seem like a K301 but I suspect that it is. Can't really say what the previous owners did to it, maybe cammed it up? You know that the K361OHV cam bolts right in, so who knows? With the extra overlap those do have a real "throaty" sound!
I think that spec is correct, a 12 HP for an International Harvester Cub Cadet. However, it sure appears to have the sump adapter bolted up to it that converts a narrow base (CC style block) to a wide base (such as Deere and many others used). If you look at the parts breakdown for that spec it does show the narrow based block. In that picture it also shows the basic sump adapters offered, although not used on this engine. It would be my guess that someone used the IH spec and added the adapter to help with acheiving the correct alignmnet for the driveline. That is not the typical mounting for an 1100 as you may know, just what someone decided to make. The 1100 used the same Iso- mounts as the other Quietline models.
I know what you are saying, it doesn't seem like a K301 but I suspect that it is. Can't really say what the previous owners did to it, maybe cammed it up? You know that the K361OHV cam bolts right in, so who knows? With the extra overlap those do have a real "throaty" sound!
hydroharry
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Jim - how do you get to see a "full parts breakdown?" without signing in on that Kohler site?
jdiederichs
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Harry,
Next to the sign-in box (to the right) is an option to "Enter as a Guest". Select that which provides nearly full access. The only difference with having a sign-in is the addition of pricing as used by dealers and distributors. You will be able to view any model with parts breakdowns. The first step once you are 'in' is to select your engine family, such as the K-Series or Command etc.
However, another method is also handy; in the upper right of the screen is a box that you can enter a spec number or a part number, and so forth. Say you wish to look up a spec, to the immediate left of the box, mouse over that for a drop-down menu. Select "Specification" by double clicking on it. Then type in the spec, say you have a 47621, enter that. If it has a suffix such as 47621d ignore the suffix as it won't recognize that. Same with a Magnum or Command.}
Next to the sign-in box (to the right) is an option to "Enter as a Guest". Select that which provides nearly full access. The only difference with having a sign-in is the addition of pricing as used by dealers and distributors. You will be able to view any model with parts breakdowns. The first step once you are 'in' is to select your engine family, such as the K-Series or Command etc.
However, another method is also handy; in the upper right of the screen is a box that you can enter a spec number or a part number, and so forth. Say you wish to look up a spec, to the immediate left of the box, mouse over that for a drop-down menu. Select "Specification" by double clicking on it. Then type in the spec, say you have a 47621, enter that. If it has a suffix such as 47621d ignore the suffix as it won't recognize that. Same with a Magnum or Command.}
hydroharry
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Jim - thanks, I figured out how to get around a bit and I see now Tom's K301AQS Spec No. 47541d is listed as an IH spec unit. I suspect you're right that someone may have changed the oil pan to get the added height for the 1100 alignment.
Thanks again,
Thanks again,
OK, I checked the Cub Cadet parts lookup and the blower housing on the 1200 is the same as the one on a 1650 KH-47-027-07. I'm thinking that the ID number doen't mean a thing, the guy was just putting a engine with some mixed parts in a 1100.
Lewis, what's the story on the head bolts?
Lewis, what's the story on the head bolts?
hydroharry
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Tom - can't tell much more from that additional pic except it has a standard IH Cub Cadet muffler. (I believe the JD mufflers came out the side). What Lewis meant was the 16hp K341 has 10 head bolts and the 10hp K241, the 12hp K301 and the 14hp K321 all have 9 head bolts. So if you count 10 head bolts it's gotta be a 16hp, and if you count 9 headbolts it's 10, 12 or 14hp.
mhomrighausen
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They also put Kohlers in Allis/Simplicity and Gravely garden tractors. Ryan McShane has a ten horse Allis engine with a deeper pan and my Pow'r Pup has a Gravely with a deeper pan only it is a 12 horse. I'll try and remember to check the I.D. tag on it tonight when I get home. Also if you want to see a pretty cool looking muffler then go to evilpay and check out those old Gravely mufflers. They are shorter and I think would take to making a more realistic looking FARMALL type muffler after welding a piece of pipe extension on them.
hydroharry
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Tom - I still think you have a 12hp K301AQS made for a Cub Cadet, that someone changed the oil pan to better fit the 1100, but the PTO is different from the Quiet Line era which mounted with 4 bolts. Can you remove that bolt going into the crankshaft and check the crankshaft diameter? I think the 1" crank is primarily for IHCC and JD. I believe Gravely and others used a 1 and 1/8" crank.
jdiederichs
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I agree with Harry on this, I also believe that to be an IH spec engine, but with the wide base oil sump bolted to it.
Since Harry wanted to know the crankshaft diameter, QL being 1.125" and earlier 1.00" I'd be curious if you unbolted the pto clutch and slid it off; most crankcases had numbers cast in, 341, 321, 241 etc. That would get us a clue.
Tom, in your original post you asked if the standard IHCC correct pan will fit; the answer is yes, it will, once the sump extender is removed. However you may need to carefully shorten the oil dipper on the rod. You'll know that once the adapter is removed and a CC pan held in place with the dipper at it's lowest point, BDC.
So is the actual 1100 Peerless rear end in that tractor or was it switch to the IHCC 3 speed?
Since Harry wanted to know the crankshaft diameter, QL being 1.125" and earlier 1.00" I'd be curious if you unbolted the pto clutch and slid it off; most crankcases had numbers cast in, 341, 321, 241 etc. That would get us a clue.
Tom, in your original post you asked if the standard IHCC correct pan will fit; the answer is yes, it will, once the sump extender is removed. However you may need to carefully shorten the oil dipper on the rod. You'll know that once the adapter is removed and a CC pan held in place with the dipper at it's lowest point, BDC.
So is the actual 1100 Peerless rear end in that tractor or was it switch to the IHCC 3 speed?
