I made one, terrible and very dangerous. Should have used someone else's idea. It's now part of a sleeve hitch lift on a Case 220. Second time around, I did along David S. Method. I try and not have to change clutches by focusing on hydros now
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Archive through March 19, 2018
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jbelliveau
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- Jeff Belliveau
Well been over a week since last post but managed to split the 1650, pulled the Hydro unit off, and it looks like I will require more input from the more experienced peeps on hydro function....
RECAP; Rear end was functioning as if it was a vehicle rear end in park. Up in the air (on the bench) both axles spin super free in opposing directions, but try to spin the both in the same direction and its a no go. So felt something was holding back the reduction gear, either the brakes stuck or the input shaft. Confirmed brakes were free, left me only with the hydro unit.
Further for those who have not reviewed/seen my past posts re this issue, the relief valves are both free (one was stuck but manage to free it up) and issue is present regardless of valves being in place or removed completely from the hydro.
From there I pulled the Hydro unit and after that I was able to rotate both axles in the same direction, with considerable resistance but no more than one/I would expect given the gears. So then I tried to rotate the hydro gear and was able to do so with some effort(wrapped fist around gear teeth and cranked) It was difficult to turn but turned.
So.... How much resistance should one feel on the hydro unit (when pulled from the trani)? Should I be able to spin it using thumb/finger? or is it expected to see it stiffer than that?
I then reassembled hydro to trani and back to pretty much parked condition.
Final note, tractor drives forward and reverse no issues at all, just cant push by hand when its shut off and in what would be called a neutral state, without hooking a chain to my truck...... They do roll just needs far more power and if one wheel loses traction say over slippery concrete, that wheel would roll backwards while the other goes forward...
I think I got all the details out there now... Sorry for the long message, but if anyone has a thought/input to help it's greatly appreciated, being my first hydro to work on and all....
I'm thinking I'm afraid to hear the answer of what I expect to come.....
BUT at the same time I'm also thinking maybe dried seals in hydro pump and maybe some lucas additive might help rejuvenate.....
RECAP; Rear end was functioning as if it was a vehicle rear end in park. Up in the air (on the bench) both axles spin super free in opposing directions, but try to spin the both in the same direction and its a no go. So felt something was holding back the reduction gear, either the brakes stuck or the input shaft. Confirmed brakes were free, left me only with the hydro unit.
Further for those who have not reviewed/seen my past posts re this issue, the relief valves are both free (one was stuck but manage to free it up) and issue is present regardless of valves being in place or removed completely from the hydro.
From there I pulled the Hydro unit and after that I was able to rotate both axles in the same direction, with considerable resistance but no more than one/I would expect given the gears. So then I tried to rotate the hydro gear and was able to do so with some effort(wrapped fist around gear teeth and cranked) It was difficult to turn but turned.
So.... How much resistance should one feel on the hydro unit (when pulled from the trani)? Should I be able to spin it using thumb/finger? or is it expected to see it stiffer than that?
I then reassembled hydro to trani and back to pretty much parked condition.
Final note, tractor drives forward and reverse no issues at all, just cant push by hand when its shut off and in what would be called a neutral state, without hooking a chain to my truck...... They do roll just needs far more power and if one wheel loses traction say over slippery concrete, that wheel would roll backwards while the other goes forward...
I think I got all the details out there now... Sorry for the long message, but if anyone has a thought/input to help it's greatly appreciated, being my first hydro to work on and all....
I'm thinking I'm afraid to hear the answer of what I expect to come.....
BUT at the same time I'm also thinking maybe dried seals in hydro pump and maybe some lucas additive might help rejuvenate.....
I'm going to agree to disagree with all that's been said about Matts clutch spring tool assuming that's the one being discussed here. I made a couple (one for a friend) a few years back when I first learned of it on his website. I've since used the tool on probably two dozen clutch repairs and have found it to work perfectly. I've also used a vise (as a much younger man) and don't care to have a potential rocket right in front of me while working...especially trying to drive the roll pin out. Matts clutch spring compressor is safe as long as you have good welds, etc.
I've also seen several different designs of compressors but Matts is simple in design and easy to use IMO. And when I'm done it hangs nicely on a nail where it's easy to find next time.
.
I've also seen several different designs of compressors but Matts is simple in design and easy to use IMO. And when I'm done it hangs nicely on a nail where it's easy to find next time.
.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Jeff B.
Your hydro is.........100% NORMAL
They don't roll in N, UNLESS you release the check valves withthe dump lever on the center cover.
Be thankful you have such good check valves....some will roll away from you when the release after you park the tractor.
AND......DON'T TOW HYDROS WITH YOUR TRUCK.....it will score the swash plates and slipper feet and ruin the hydro......
Your hydro is.........100% NORMAL
They don't roll in N, UNLESS you release the check valves withthe dump lever on the center cover.
Be thankful you have such good check valves....some will roll away from you when the release after you park the tractor.
AND......DON'T TOW HYDROS WITH YOUR TRUCK.....it will score the swash plates and slipper feet and ruin the hydro......
Wayne, They show doing it in a vise in the service manual with some protective jaw inserts.
It will only bounce about a inch if you ease off the vice gently.
It will only bounce about a inch if you ease off the vice gently.
jbelliveau
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- Jeff Belliveau
Thanks Steve, I didn't tow with truck but was trying to ensure the point got across that it was really hard to roll.
My unit does not have manual relief valves, no lever on the console and tall relief valves without depression nipple.
Possible another valve is stuck within?
My unit does not have manual relief valves, no lever on the console and tall relief valves without depression nipple.
Possible another valve is stuck within?
Ok didn't mean to start anything yesterday , I actually do use a vise to tear them down. Really just wanted to make one for putting them back together. Since I did take some welding classes a while back and finally picked up a welder. Besides every clutch assembly I've taken apart I had to cut the roll pins off while holding in a vice.
jbelliveau
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- Jeff Belliveau
All this talk of presses......
I Just picked up everything I need to make a clutch press (since I will need it to reassemble the 126). $12 CDN. Thanks to Matt for the design, looks robust and safe and can be used on or off the tractor!
I Just picked up everything I need to make a clutch press (since I will need it to reassemble the 126). $12 CDN. Thanks to Matt for the design, looks robust and safe and can be used on or off the tractor!
K301 just about ready to reinstall in a 128 soon as the rest of the driveshaft parts show up. I still have to weld up cracks in the muffler support plate and shield but I'm out of wire at present.
David-
I remember reading/seeing that in the manual back in the 70s complete with the brass jaws. Marty has a good idea with the cardboard for that matter. I was just making a point and speaking from a lot of experience. That's a powerful spring we're talking about and it can hurt you. Matts compressor greatly reduces the chances again, IMO.
And the "muffler support plate" is usually called a heat shield. Just another FYI.
.
I remember reading/seeing that in the manual back in the 70s complete with the brass jaws. Marty has a good idea with the cardboard for that matter. I was just making a point and speaking from a lot of experience. That's a powerful spring we're talking about and it can hurt you. Matts compressor greatly reduces the chances again, IMO.
And the "muffler support plate" is usually called a heat shield. Just another FYI.
.
mgwin
Well-known member
Jonathan,
Why did you have to cut the roll pins?
The pin length should be real close to the diameter of the clutch piece you are installing.
Example: Notice the spirol pin in the bottom pic is almost flush with the clutch plate collar.
All you have to do is put the end of the driveshaft in the vise.
I use two small pieces of cardboard on each side to protect the shaft from scratches or gouges when driving the spring pins in and out.
Here are two pics of how to put the clutch in a vise for disassembly and assembly:
In the pics, I used blue masking tape to show where the cardboard goes.
The vise does not have to be tightened real tight, just enough to keep the shaft from slipping when putting the clutch back together.
The vise is laying on it's side to make it easier to drive the pins out.
With the shaft in the vise like this, and a block of wood under the other end, you can drive every pin in the entire shaft out.
To put the pin back in, align the hole in the collar with the hole in the shaft, and put it back in the vise like in the pic.
Then set the vise back upright and drive the shaft down with a hammer and brass punch until the holes are even with each other.
Do not hit it too hard, or you will go too far down and will have to loosen the vise and start all over again.
A closer pic:
Why did you have to cut the roll pins?
The pin length should be real close to the diameter of the clutch piece you are installing.
Example: Notice the spirol pin in the bottom pic is almost flush with the clutch plate collar.
All you have to do is put the end of the driveshaft in the vise.
I use two small pieces of cardboard on each side to protect the shaft from scratches or gouges when driving the spring pins in and out.
Here are two pics of how to put the clutch in a vise for disassembly and assembly:
In the pics, I used blue masking tape to show where the cardboard goes.
The vise does not have to be tightened real tight, just enough to keep the shaft from slipping when putting the clutch back together.
The vise is laying on it's side to make it easier to drive the pins out.
With the shaft in the vise like this, and a block of wood under the other end, you can drive every pin in the entire shaft out.
To put the pin back in, align the hole in the collar with the hole in the shaft, and put it back in the vise like in the pic.
Then set the vise back upright and drive the shaft down with a hammer and brass punch until the holes are even with each other.
Do not hit it too hard, or you will go too far down and will have to loosen the vise and start all over again.
A closer pic:
mgwin
Well-known member
Wayne,
It won't hurt you if you don't have your head/face down on it when you release the vise!
It won't hurt you if you don't have your head/face down on it when you release the vise!
jbelliveau
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Marty.... yuk yuk yuk....lol cracking up here.
Almost lost my head back in the day installing pots in the floor of my shop, with a press, .... that let go.. not fun wondering where that bullet is going.
Almost lost my head back in the day installing pots in the floor of my shop, with a press, .... that let go.. not fun wondering where that bullet is going.
mfrade
Well-known member
Michael H., we all "get it". But the fact remains that the 169 K341 is going to vibrate and using 1 for any length of time actually becomes painful. Your hands and feet go numb from the vibes.
Even Steve B. writes that he had a well experienced shop balance his and it was enough of an experience that he was also frustrated enough to send it down the road. I do thank you for the reply, this is an ongoing "project" I think. So maybe somewhere in the future I'll take it down and re-install the original wrist pin.
Even Steve B. writes that he had a well experienced shop balance his and it was enough of an experience that he was also frustrated enough to send it down the road. I do thank you for the reply, this is an ongoing "project" I think. So maybe somewhere in the future I'll take it down and re-install the original wrist pin.
I picked up a sears disc harrow the other day. I'd like to modify it to hook up like a brinly. Does any one know the measurements for the bar (d-172 is the part number) the disc hooks to the tractor so I can make one or where I could buy one from? Does brinly sell them?
Jason, not sure on that. Might just have to do some side by side comparison with a sleeve hitch implement.
I can attest to poorly made/designed clutch tools. Mine consisted of sawzall cut angle steel and old rusty threaded rod from the scrap bin. Sent the spring through the ceiling in my friends garage (don't tell him, I didn't). I had to crawl up in the attic space to get it. Obviously I did a fair amount wrong, but did get the 1200 clutch fixed. That was 8 years ago now. But I will have to again when I decide to install the 2 creepers I have sitting. Part of why their still sitting in a bin with accompanying drive shafts, one NF one WF
I can attest to poorly made/designed clutch tools. Mine consisted of sawzall cut angle steel and old rusty threaded rod from the scrap bin. Sent the spring through the ceiling in my friends garage (don't tell him, I didn't). I had to crawl up in the attic space to get it. Obviously I did a fair amount wrong, but did get the 1200 clutch fixed. That was 8 years ago now. But I will have to again when I decide to install the 2 creepers I have sitting. Part of why their still sitting in a bin with accompanying drive shafts, one NF one WF
Jason, more than likely the Sears disc is a Brinly. Does it look like this Brinly DD-500? I see the drawbar is part# D-172.
I believe this is the part you need to hook it up to a Brinly Sleeve hitch:
EDIT: Oops, never mind, this would be for using a Sleeve Hitch implement with a simple drawbar.
I believe this is the part you need to hook it up to a Brinly Sleeve hitch:
EDIT: Oops, never mind, this would be for using a Sleeve Hitch implement with a simple drawbar.
Jason, here's an excerpt from an old (1980's?) Sears catalog that I used to have that shows what appears to be a Brinly disc.
Kraig, essentially yes it looks like a brinly except it has a rectangle shape made out of angle instead of the Pentagon shape. But hook up should be the same. I may just modify mine with some angle and come into a c channel like on a plow. We'll see
Jason, CC Specialties, link at the top of the page, sells a "U" that is sized for the Brinly Sleeve Hitch. You would just need to weld on a part to bolt to the disc draw bar. It's called a Brinly style Implement Yoke. Here's the photo of it from the CCS page:
