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Archive through June 28, 2013
- Thread starter jbaker
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
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- Binder 1650
Charlie - here is a pic down the carb throat.
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- Binder 1650
More info - I found a flange on the carb with a ground spot and some numbers stamped on it. The number is 4705309 with small text turned 90 degrees in front of this reading K5
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Bill J - that definitely is a Kohler carb (or a really good knockoff copy). What Charlie was getting at is that usually the Carb will be stamped on the choke side, inside top with a number "30". I don't see it in your last pic but it still could be a 30. I think (but no guarantee here) that is supposed to be the measurement of the opening - so you could carefully measure it to see if it's 30mm. And just to verify you could check the carb on the 12hp in your 122, which should be a no. 26 and have a 26mm opening.
Now, you sure do have your work cut out for you on that carb. In one of your pics you can see into the fuel inlet opening - DANG!!!! - talk about crud!!!!! And the float looks just about as bad, but that should clean up. You're sure gonna have to soak the carb base once you get it at least partially dis-assembled. If your throttle shaft isn't wobbly, I'd just do the partial dis-assembly and soak it, and then use air pressure to blow it out thru ever hole you can access. I hope your hi-speed needle cleans up well to. If you get the carb all cleaned up and looking really nice, and then try it on the engine - IF SHE DOESN'T work or adjust up - well then it's back to the starting block. You'll have to remove throttle plate and shaft, and the choke plate and shaft, and don't loose that little detent ball bearing for the choke shaft!!!! (I can't remember if there is a little spring in there to - but I don't think so) - AND THEN you can soak that carb again AND you can try poking a nylon broom bristle or something similiar thru all the holes you can find. I wouldn't use anything metal since it will scratch the internal surfaces. Put the bristle thru the holes from the inside and all of them on the outside that you can find. NOW, if you can, when you do the "complete" (not partial) dis=assembly, you might be able to remove the main jet that is screwed in from the bottom of the main carb shaft (same shaft where the float bowl nut screws in). It has a slot in it for a flat screw driver and looks like it's a brass flat screw with a hole in the center (where the point of the hi-speed needle comes thru. If you do get it out you'll discover it's about an inch or so long. Don't try to hard to get it out. It's hard as H to find a replacement if you screw it up (you basically have to get another carb) - BUT if you can get it out you have a much better chance of getting all the insides passages all cleaned up.
Good luck with it - I really hope you can get by with the partial dis-assembly.
Now, you sure do have your work cut out for you on that carb. In one of your pics you can see into the fuel inlet opening - DANG!!!! - talk about crud!!!!! And the float looks just about as bad, but that should clean up. You're sure gonna have to soak the carb base once you get it at least partially dis-assembled. If your throttle shaft isn't wobbly, I'd just do the partial dis-assembly and soak it, and then use air pressure to blow it out thru ever hole you can access. I hope your hi-speed needle cleans up well to. If you get the carb all cleaned up and looking really nice, and then try it on the engine - IF SHE DOESN'T work or adjust up - well then it's back to the starting block. You'll have to remove throttle plate and shaft, and the choke plate and shaft, and don't loose that little detent ball bearing for the choke shaft!!!! (I can't remember if there is a little spring in there to - but I don't think so) - AND THEN you can soak that carb again AND you can try poking a nylon broom bristle or something similiar thru all the holes you can find. I wouldn't use anything metal since it will scratch the internal surfaces. Put the bristle thru the holes from the inside and all of them on the outside that you can find. NOW, if you can, when you do the "complete" (not partial) dis=assembly, you might be able to remove the main jet that is screwed in from the bottom of the main carb shaft (same shaft where the float bowl nut screws in). It has a slot in it for a flat screw driver and looks like it's a brass flat screw with a hole in the center (where the point of the hi-speed needle comes thru. If you do get it out you'll discover it's about an inch or so long. Don't try to hard to get it out. It's hard as H to find a replacement if you screw it up (you basically have to get another carb) - BUT if you can get it out you have a much better chance of getting all the insides passages all cleaned up.
Good luck with it - I really hope you can get by with the partial dis-assembly.
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- Binder 1650
Harry B - thanks for the info on my carb. I think where Charlie was going with the pic was for me to see a #26 or #30 on the carb inlet. The engine that came out of my 126 with a broken rod has a #26 carb on it and the 16 hp K341 I've got for my 1650 has a #30 carb - both of these have the number embossed in the inlet. The engine I pulled from the 122 is a black crate kohler engine and has a walboro carb on it - no number embossed on the carb inlet. That's what threw me for a curve on this carb.
I did a bit of internet goggling on this carb, #475309 and apparently the replacement is a 4785329-S and I am pretty certain it's a #30. Why the carb I've got doesn't have #30 on the inlet is a mystery to me.
Quick question: What is it about the Kohler/Carter carbs that makes everyone want them over the Walboro? I get the feeling that if you have a Carter carb, no matter the condition, it's worth holding onto.
Another quick question: I've got more things to look at on my 126 and it's getting hot (from hard mowing) and conking out, cooling down and going again. While I'm checking out the condenser, spark, carb adjustment, etc., I'm wondering what one does to free a sticky exhaust valve beyond using MMO. Trying to figure what I'm getting myself into with fixing the valve if it comes to that.
I did a bit of internet goggling on this carb, #475309 and apparently the replacement is a 4785329-S and I am pretty certain it's a #30. Why the carb I've got doesn't have #30 on the inlet is a mystery to me.
Quick question: What is it about the Kohler/Carter carbs that makes everyone want them over the Walboro? I get the feeling that if you have a Carter carb, no matter the condition, it's worth holding onto.
Another quick question: I've got more things to look at on my 126 and it's getting hot (from hard mowing) and conking out, cooling down and going again. While I'm checking out the condenser, spark, carb adjustment, etc., I'm wondering what one does to free a sticky exhaust valve beyond using MMO. Trying to figure what I'm getting myself into with fixing the valve if it comes to that.
jbaker
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- jeff l baker
Jeremiah I replace on average 4 gaskets a week ranging from steam to cold water. And all my gaskets get anti sieze un less there is a VERY pitted flange face then I use some rtv but do not like to.
On topic anyone notice my start to this page, I was wondering about the vac hook up to my wide frame 1x9
On topic anyone notice my start to this page, I was wondering about the vac hook up to my wide frame 1x9
jchamberlin
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- Jeremiah Chamberlin
Thanks to everyone who read and responded to my write-up on changing the transmission fluid in a Cub Cadet. Specifically:
Jeff: Thanks for looking up the date of manufacture of my 149. I didn't think of using the bench grinder my son bought me for Christmas, but I would have gotten absolutely drenched on the day in question. I was in the shed at the back of the house, and the bench grinder was in the garage at the front of the house, the rain was coming down hard and it was time for me to leave for work . . ..
Richard: You bring up a very good point I should have mentioned. The surface looked flat to me, except for a slight ding in the middle apparently caused by an implement on the lift. I seem to remember using a hammer on the end plate I removed from my 782, perhaps the metal was thinner on the CCC version.
Dennis: I appreciate the link to Hylomar (never heard of it before), but I've had mixed experience with RTV. I HATE having to remove the frequent over-applications I've encountered over the years, and most RTV formulations are very sensitive to oil. Jeff hit on the reason I used the grease --I didn't want to repeat the experience of having to scrape the gasket off again in three years!
Jeff (again): I had never thought of using anti-sieze on a gasket, I think I'll try it next time. Any particular brand or type you favor?
Jeff: Thanks for looking up the date of manufacture of my 149. I didn't think of using the bench grinder my son bought me for Christmas, but I would have gotten absolutely drenched on the day in question. I was in the shed at the back of the house, and the bench grinder was in the garage at the front of the house, the rain was coming down hard and it was time for me to leave for work . . ..
Richard: You bring up a very good point I should have mentioned. The surface looked flat to me, except for a slight ding in the middle apparently caused by an implement on the lift. I seem to remember using a hammer on the end plate I removed from my 782, perhaps the metal was thinner on the CCC version.
Dennis: I appreciate the link to Hylomar (never heard of it before), but I've had mixed experience with RTV. I HATE having to remove the frequent over-applications I've encountered over the years, and most RTV formulations are very sensitive to oil. Jeff hit on the reason I used the grease --I didn't want to repeat the experience of having to scrape the gasket off again in three years!
Jeff (again): I had never thought of using anti-sieze on a gasket, I think I'll try it next time. Any particular brand or type you favor?
JEREMIAH - Hylomar is NOT RTV. As the link I posted said, Hylomar is resistant to about ANY fluid in cars, trucks, CC's, etc. Biggest problem with all gasket sealants is people put WAY too much on. Hylomar is the right stuff to use on gaskets. And speaking of Right Stuff, I always keep some of that around the shop too. When replacing intake manifolds on V8 engines, most gasket sets include cork gaskets for the frt & rear intake to block sealing surfaces. And cork as shown by the cork hydro gasket on CC's eventually leak, they compress and take a "set", then leak. I throw those cork gaskets away! A thick bead of Right Stuff that's been let to set up for 5-10 minutes will seal those gaskets leak-free for keeps, and it pulls away cleanly from the surfaces you seal. Hylomar will never completely harden, always stays flexible, but it will glue the gasket on pretty well. Just a thin swipe on both sides of the gasket is enough.
For something that would allow diassembly without much clean-up, maybe something like this would be better, but keep in mind, it's designed for threaded fittings, not sealing gaskets, http://www.permatex.com/products/product-categories/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe-detail
Problem I have with using grease or anti-sieze as gasket dressing is they're not resistant to petroleum products, hot oil, gas, etc will eventually dissolve them out of the joint and will probably leak. Years ago when SON & I were racing R/C really hot & heavy, I was sealing the back cover on the engines with Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket on the very thin paper gasket. The back cover had to seal the fuel/air mixture in the engine plus withstand up to 250 degrees F. The Permatex handled the temps fine but about every 3-4 weeks I'd have to disassemble the engine & re-seal everything because the methanol in the fuel would dissolve the Permatex out of the joint and they'd leak and run lean.
Just like torquing threaded fasteners, gasket sealing is a SCIENCE. Engineers make a career out of designing better ways to keep things leak-free and tight.
BILL J. - Short of pulling the exh valve and scraping or wire brushing the hard carbon deposits off the exh valve stem that are taking up the space between the valve stem & valve guide when the engine gets hot, richening up the main fuel needle of your carb on your 126 about 1/8 to 1/4 turn will cool the valve as much as anything and then it won't expand as much and will stop sticking. Like I said last time, I found MMO to be a waste of time & money. And switching to IH Low Ash 30W oil helps too.
For something that would allow diassembly without much clean-up, maybe something like this would be better, but keep in mind, it's designed for threaded fittings, not sealing gaskets, http://www.permatex.com/products/product-categories/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe-detail
Problem I have with using grease or anti-sieze as gasket dressing is they're not resistant to petroleum products, hot oil, gas, etc will eventually dissolve them out of the joint and will probably leak. Years ago when SON & I were racing R/C really hot & heavy, I was sealing the back cover on the engines with Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket on the very thin paper gasket. The back cover had to seal the fuel/air mixture in the engine plus withstand up to 250 degrees F. The Permatex handled the temps fine but about every 3-4 weeks I'd have to disassemble the engine & re-seal everything because the methanol in the fuel would dissolve the Permatex out of the joint and they'd leak and run lean.
Just like torquing threaded fasteners, gasket sealing is a SCIENCE. Engineers make a career out of designing better ways to keep things leak-free and tight.
BILL J. - Short of pulling the exh valve and scraping or wire brushing the hard carbon deposits off the exh valve stem that are taking up the space between the valve stem & valve guide when the engine gets hot, richening up the main fuel needle of your carb on your 126 about 1/8 to 1/4 turn will cool the valve as much as anything and then it won't expand as much and will stop sticking. Like I said last time, I found MMO to be a waste of time & money. And switching to IH Low Ash 30W oil helps too.
jchamberlin
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- Jeremiah Chamberlin
Dennis: Thanks again for the response. I get that Hylomar is not RTV. To quote from your link:
Hylomar Universal Blue is resistant to a wide range of fluids, including all industrial fuels, oils, water, brine, air, turbine and piston engine combustion products, water, water/glycol, methanol mixtures, petroleum, synthetic diester lubricating oils, gasoline, lubricating oils, gasoline, kerosene fluids and most fluorocarbon refrigerants.
Perhaps what I like best about it is that (quoting again):
Hylomar Universal Blue will never harden which offers benefits in assembly and dissassembly. As Hylomar does not cure it offers an unlimited assembly time. This is particularly useful when assembling large components. <u>When the component needs to be dissassembled Hylomar allows the joint to be opened easily.</u> (emphasis added)
To be absolutely clear: are you saying that you recommend and use Hylomar to seal up your hydrostatic transmission case? If so, where do you get it? I can't recall seeing it for sale around here, but then again, I hadn't known to look for it.
Hylomar Universal Blue is resistant to a wide range of fluids, including all industrial fuels, oils, water, brine, air, turbine and piston engine combustion products, water, water/glycol, methanol mixtures, petroleum, synthetic diester lubricating oils, gasoline, lubricating oils, gasoline, kerosene fluids and most fluorocarbon refrigerants.
Perhaps what I like best about it is that (quoting again):
Hylomar Universal Blue will never harden which offers benefits in assembly and dissassembly. As Hylomar does not cure it offers an unlimited assembly time. This is particularly useful when assembling large components. <u>When the component needs to be dissassembled Hylomar allows the joint to be opened easily.</u> (emphasis added)
To be absolutely clear: are you saying that you recommend and use Hylomar to seal up your hydrostatic transmission case? If so, where do you get it? I can't recall seeing it for sale around here, but then again, I hadn't known to look for it.
JEREMIAH - I've actually only replaced one cork gasket in a hydro, on my old 129 yrs ago. The 982 marks it's parking spot so I know it's leaking but it's done that for 12 yrs, next time I change the hy-tran & filter I'll probably replace the cork gasket with the new composite one, but the addition of the rear PTO, 3-pt hitch, & hyd lines to the two aux valves makes it a WHOLE lot more labor intensive than the old 129 was.
Can't remember what I used on the 129's cork gasket, probably Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket, definitely NOT RTV.
For all my engine work, Hylomar has worked great. You used to be able to buy it at most places that sold sealers like Farm & Fleet, TSC, auto parts stores, etc when Permatex had the rights to bottle, package and sell the stuff but Hylomar stopped Permatex from doing that about 5 yrs ago. SON bought a big 4 oz. squeeze bottle of it on-line 3-4 months ago when we rebuilt the K241. Like I said, I use a thin swipe around the outside of oil/grease seals, all gaskets, everything except the head gasket & exhaust components, and the gaskets sealing the carb float bowl.
Must be about ten yrs ago when Travis still posted frequently, He said he used it at his work and never had a leak on any of the cars & trucks he repaired. We had a discussion here about gasket sealants, and I was using it at that time.
Do a search on it and dozens of sources come up, mostly on-line but Grainger also carries it. Year ago I stopped in to my local NAPA and asked about it. The store manager had never heard of it, but looked it up on-line, said it sounded like good stuff. He never made ANY attempt to order me some.
Can't remember what I used on the 129's cork gasket, probably Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket, definitely NOT RTV.
For all my engine work, Hylomar has worked great. You used to be able to buy it at most places that sold sealers like Farm & Fleet, TSC, auto parts stores, etc when Permatex had the rights to bottle, package and sell the stuff but Hylomar stopped Permatex from doing that about 5 yrs ago. SON bought a big 4 oz. squeeze bottle of it on-line 3-4 months ago when we rebuilt the K241. Like I said, I use a thin swipe around the outside of oil/grease seals, all gaskets, everything except the head gasket & exhaust components, and the gaskets sealing the carb float bowl.
Must be about ten yrs ago when Travis still posted frequently, He said he used it at his work and never had a leak on any of the cars & trucks he repaired. We had a discussion here about gasket sealants, and I was using it at that time.
Do a search on it and dozens of sources come up, mostly on-line but Grainger also carries it. Year ago I stopped in to my local NAPA and asked about it. The store manager had never heard of it, but looked it up on-line, said it sounded like good stuff. He never made ANY attempt to order me some.
