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Archive through July 26, 2013
- Thread starter jbaker
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
KRAIG - My memory wasn't that bad after 50 yrs. Paul's receipt shows $665 for a CC & mower with special lug tires, $550 for the tractor alone was what I was thinking. Your price list was $348 for the loader, $49 for the bucket, $27 for the rear weight box = $424 plus freight from Tulsa, OK, tax if applicable (no sales tax on farm equip. in IL), and any set-up at the dealer.
So to put that into perspective, a CC with mower & loader was $1100, probably close to $1200 with freight & set-up etc. A used 10-12 yr old M could be bought for as little as $800-$900 to as much as $1200 if it had some add-on's like M&W Live Hyd, M&W or IH Fire-Crater pistons & decent tires, think Dad paid $350-$400 for his new Stan-Hoist loader for his '51 M in about '63 or '64. Not sure if that included the 80 inch wide snow bucket or not, but they were both delivered at the same time. That's why he never got the loader for a CC. A second, or third M could also pull a disk, harrow, or 4-row planter, mow, rake, bale hay, grind ear corn for the cattle, could even mount the IH 2M-E picker on it. Cub Cadet could mow the house & barn yard, and a little of the road banks.
It's thinking like that, that kept the higher HP & Hydro CC's off many farms back in the early days of CC's. The larger HP CC's could run bigger mowers, but My time was cheap...Ok, FREE except when I could be doing field work, which I still didn't get paid for either, but that paid the bills, and the larger CC engines lasted longer because they didn't have to work near as hard as the 7-8 HP CC's, but that extra $100-$200 for more HP was tough to justify until rebuild time came. And a rebuild was less than $100 back then, parts AND labor.
Dad could have bought a brand new 112 PTO HP 1206 in '65 for less than $10,000 and it would have been one of TWO of the largest red tractors around. An 806-D for less than $7000 would have looked less weird pulling our 4-bottom plow & 12 ft disk, a $6200 706D would have been fine, but had the D282 engine until Nov. '66 when replaced with the Nuess D310, which was 2-3 times the engine the D282 was. Lots of gas 706's sold around home, in fact... they ALL were gas. Back in Dec. '68 Dad paid $3600 for a '63 4010-D that already had the 4020 kit in the engine and "Used a little oil", meaning 4-5 quarts per 34 gal tank of fuel. But, by then, it was tough to justify spending $1500 to mow the yard. For snow removal and other chores, the bigger tractors just made more sense to use, you already had them out and running.
Ohhh and speaking of OLD GD CC's, SON called after mowing with his new repowered 10 HP CC 70 for the first time, been real dry in his area, didn't take him long to realize that an old 70 or 100 makes a GREAT mowing tractor with the slow 2nd gear. 10 HP & 38" deck makes short work of 5-6 inch tall grass at 3.2 MPH. 7 HP would have been 1st gear @ 2.3 MPH.
So to put that into perspective, a CC with mower & loader was $1100, probably close to $1200 with freight & set-up etc. A used 10-12 yr old M could be bought for as little as $800-$900 to as much as $1200 if it had some add-on's like M&W Live Hyd, M&W or IH Fire-Crater pistons & decent tires, think Dad paid $350-$400 for his new Stan-Hoist loader for his '51 M in about '63 or '64. Not sure if that included the 80 inch wide snow bucket or not, but they were both delivered at the same time. That's why he never got the loader for a CC. A second, or third M could also pull a disk, harrow, or 4-row planter, mow, rake, bale hay, grind ear corn for the cattle, could even mount the IH 2M-E picker on it. Cub Cadet could mow the house & barn yard, and a little of the road banks.
It's thinking like that, that kept the higher HP & Hydro CC's off many farms back in the early days of CC's. The larger HP CC's could run bigger mowers, but My time was cheap...Ok, FREE except when I could be doing field work, which I still didn't get paid for either, but that paid the bills, and the larger CC engines lasted longer because they didn't have to work near as hard as the 7-8 HP CC's, but that extra $100-$200 for more HP was tough to justify until rebuild time came. And a rebuild was less than $100 back then, parts AND labor.
Dad could have bought a brand new 112 PTO HP 1206 in '65 for less than $10,000 and it would have been one of TWO of the largest red tractors around. An 806-D for less than $7000 would have looked less weird pulling our 4-bottom plow & 12 ft disk, a $6200 706D would have been fine, but had the D282 engine until Nov. '66 when replaced with the Nuess D310, which was 2-3 times the engine the D282 was. Lots of gas 706's sold around home, in fact... they ALL were gas. Back in Dec. '68 Dad paid $3600 for a '63 4010-D that already had the 4020 kit in the engine and "Used a little oil", meaning 4-5 quarts per 34 gal tank of fuel. But, by then, it was tough to justify spending $1500 to mow the yard. For snow removal and other chores, the bigger tractors just made more sense to use, you already had them out and running.
Ohhh and speaking of OLD GD CC's, SON called after mowing with his new repowered 10 HP CC 70 for the first time, been real dry in his area, didn't take him long to realize that an old 70 or 100 makes a GREAT mowing tractor with the slow 2nd gear. 10 HP & 38" deck makes short work of 5-6 inch tall grass at 3.2 MPH. 7 HP would have been 1st gear @ 2.3 MPH.
MATTHEW K. - re Sticking clutch on a 122. Sounds like you can break the sticking clutch plate loose and it sticks again right away. Almost like there's something sticky on the friction disk or pressure plate. Is there any grease or oil on the clutch? Normally that makes the clutch slip, but a LOT of grease could cause the friction plate to stick to the pressure plate.
I've had the clutch on the 70 stick once when it sat outside the shop and got rained on one night. Steel pressure plates got wet & rusted, stuck to the friction disk. I put the tractor in 3rd gear and slipped the clutch a bit to shine up the plates and it never bothered again. Leaving CC's outside in the weather is NEVER good for them.
How new is the friction plate? New plates are "FUZZY" for want of a better word. They really don't start acting right until they get a hard smooth surface worn into them. Have you done any recent clutch work to the tractor? Are you sure the clutch is assembled correctly? Or is this something that just started happening?
The friction plate that's driven by the three pins on the clutch driver has to be free to "Float" meaning with the clutch/brake pedal locked down the friction plate should rattle around on the three drive pins. If your driveshaft is really worn bad, or PAINTED, the sliding rear pressure plate won't be free to slide back and relieve prssure on the friction disk causing the clutch to "Stick". A little Anti-sieze, and I mean very little, on the drive shaft where the rear pressure plate slides helps keep the plate moving freely, and reduces wear. Also, the friction plate has to be free on the three drive pins, like I said, it has to "rattle around". I use three anti-rattle springs on my GD clutches, but really only one is needed, and not using ANY really doesn't hurt anything.
Any chance there could be something down INSIDE the friction plate that's binding the friction plate to the driveshaft or pressure plates? The ID of the friction plate is what, 3 inches by 1/4" thk? plenty of room for something to hide and bind the friction plate to the pressure plates.
I've had the clutch on the 70 stick once when it sat outside the shop and got rained on one night. Steel pressure plates got wet & rusted, stuck to the friction disk. I put the tractor in 3rd gear and slipped the clutch a bit to shine up the plates and it never bothered again. Leaving CC's outside in the weather is NEVER good for them.
How new is the friction plate? New plates are "FUZZY" for want of a better word. They really don't start acting right until they get a hard smooth surface worn into them. Have you done any recent clutch work to the tractor? Are you sure the clutch is assembled correctly? Or is this something that just started happening?
The friction plate that's driven by the three pins on the clutch driver has to be free to "Float" meaning with the clutch/brake pedal locked down the friction plate should rattle around on the three drive pins. If your driveshaft is really worn bad, or PAINTED, the sliding rear pressure plate won't be free to slide back and relieve prssure on the friction disk causing the clutch to "Stick". A little Anti-sieze, and I mean very little, on the drive shaft where the rear pressure plate slides helps keep the plate moving freely, and reduces wear. Also, the friction plate has to be free on the three drive pins, like I said, it has to "rattle around". I use three anti-rattle springs on my GD clutches, but really only one is needed, and not using ANY really doesn't hurt anything.
Any chance there could be something down INSIDE the friction plate that's binding the friction plate to the driveshaft or pressure plates? The ID of the friction plate is what, 3 inches by 1/4" thk? plenty of room for something to hide and bind the friction plate to the pressure plates.
Rick, what did you find that fixed the side to side rocking of the spindle? I've never messed with a timed deck. I have one, but when I got it, it was completely disassembled in boxes. One of these days I'm going to pull the boxes down out of the rafters, excavate the deck shell from the corner of my shed, clean it up and paint it then reassemble it. Your info could be helpful.
lpalma
Well-known member
FWIW I use only one spring on the 3 pin,three seem to make the disc hang up and cause it to spin the shaft when the pedal is down.
Put the 105 to some use today.
Put the 105 to some use today.
LEWIS - I always use more than one anti-rattle spring because they frequently go MIA, even when you capture them between the drive plate and the friction disk. Had a couple go MIA from there. They have to break to get out of that location. If you install them on the outside of the friction plate they fly off the first time the engine gets around 3000 RPM.
J
jclazar
Guest
Dennis F- Thank you for your time helping me with my questions! That was worry-free help, and I'm now on my way with the transmission work!
Dennis:
The rust things sort of makes sense, I pressure washed it just before it really started acting up. I'll get it loose and try slipping it a bit. That's pretty much the only option that doesn't mean pulling the clutch out.
Steve:
I don't think so, you can see the pressure being released it just the plates seem to want to stick to the friction disk. The other thing I guess would be is the shaft being worn and it not letting the disks slide easily.
The rust things sort of makes sense, I pressure washed it just before it really started acting up. I'll get it loose and try slipping it a bit. That's pretty much the only option that doesn't mean pulling the clutch out.
Steve:
I don't think so, you can see the pressure being released it just the plates seem to want to stick to the friction disk. The other thing I guess would be is the shaft being worn and it not letting the disks slide easily.
Now considering the details for painting a K161 7 hp so it looks good on my 73 refurbish. We're willing to remove engine tins but NOT the front PTO and main belt pulley. We'll need to do some cleaning but not sure how many engine tins there are or how to remove and reinstall them. The one on top that surrounds the spark plug is already off...it was missing and had to be replaced. Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome!
Well here is a post that only Gerry Ide will understand. Last week I bought two Peugeot petal bikes; Just because they are in great shape and I like anythig with an engine that moves (mostly).here are a few cubs and the 103 .
It has 1800 klm on it. this is kind a crazy (but) I have over 15 Cubs also.I loking forward to this fall and some shop work. Next year is the big trip. I think I might have to pull in and see how much snow Charlie has in June lol.
It has 1800 klm on it. this is kind a crazy (but) I have over 15 Cubs also.I loking forward to this fall and some shop work. Next year is the big trip. I think I might have to pull in and see how much snow Charlie has in June lol.
lpalma
Well-known member
Don,
yah gonna paint it yellow?
Those are great if you live in one of those gated communities.
What is your latest project cub wise?
Denny,
good advise,but I never owned a cub with three springs and I have had over 40 gear drives.Most times I can tell by looking at the clutch plate for the tell tale signs of a missing spring...
yah gonna paint it yellow?
Those are great if you live in one of those gated communities.
What is your latest project cub wise?
Denny,
good advise,but I never owned a cub with three springs and I have had over 40 gear drives.Most times I can tell by looking at the clutch plate for the tell tale signs of a missing spring...
lpalma
Well-known member
John,
One is dark and one is light,that is the difference...
The light ones are correct.
One is dark and one is light,that is the difference...
The light ones are correct.
LEWIS - FORTY GD CC's? My only question is "WHY?" Do you part these things out like so many others here do?
How many times here have I said I'm still trying to wear out a 48 yr old CC 70, or my 45 yr old CC 72. In fifty years of running CC's, I've only ever owned or routinely operated FIVE CC's, a '63 Original, '65 #70, '68 #72, '72 #129, & '80 982. Yeah, I've run other CC's at PD's, but can't/won't count them.
MATTHEW K. - pressure washers and sand blasters DO NOT MIX with assembled mechanical assemblies. Their pressures are WAY too high and you force water or sand into precision machined components, even past grease/oil seals & gaskets... and there's no seals of any kind in the transmission clutch of a 122 CC, except for the mechanical grease seal on the throw-out bearing.
Yes, try to get the clutch free, then use it, slip it, try to get the polished surfaces back on the pressure plates. I'm not sure what 2500 to 3000 PSI water does to the friction disk, I'm sure it's not good for it, but with enough slippage & heat, plus the fact the pressure plates protected the swept friction area, it should be O-K. I know back in the 1980's the clutch disk was changed from solid friction material to two thinner layers bonded to a thin steel plate. If your friction plate is like that, bonded, the high pressure water may have started delaminating the friction material from the steel plate, that would require replacing the friction plate.
How many times here have I said I'm still trying to wear out a 48 yr old CC 70, or my 45 yr old CC 72. In fifty years of running CC's, I've only ever owned or routinely operated FIVE CC's, a '63 Original, '65 #70, '68 #72, '72 #129, & '80 982. Yeah, I've run other CC's at PD's, but can't/won't count them.
MATTHEW K. - pressure washers and sand blasters DO NOT MIX with assembled mechanical assemblies. Their pressures are WAY too high and you force water or sand into precision machined components, even past grease/oil seals & gaskets... and there's no seals of any kind in the transmission clutch of a 122 CC, except for the mechanical grease seal on the throw-out bearing.
Yes, try to get the clutch free, then use it, slip it, try to get the polished surfaces back on the pressure plates. I'm not sure what 2500 to 3000 PSI water does to the friction disk, I'm sure it's not good for it, but with enough slippage & heat, plus the fact the pressure plates protected the swept friction area, it should be O-K. I know back in the 1980's the clutch disk was changed from solid friction material to two thinner layers bonded to a thin steel plate. If your friction plate is like that, bonded, the high pressure water may have started delaminating the friction material from the steel plate, that would require replacing the friction plate.
STEVE S. - re repainting a K161. I'll assume your painting it yellow, I always paint my engines gloss black, but the process is the same.
I'd remove ALL the engine tins, wire brush both sides, prime & paint the color coat. Don't forget to mask off the serial number & spec number plates. I'd also take the S/G pulley & basket off so you can get a good coat of paint on the frt of the block. And wire brush, prime & paint the pulley & basket. Don't get paint inside the V-belt groove. I would not paint the cast alum. cylinder head or the cooling fins on the block if this will be a working tractor. I'd clean all the other block surfaces with rags & solvent, get all the oil & rust off. I would not prime it, just thin down some of your top coat paint so it's fairly thin and BRUSH it on, many coats will be needed if you paint the engine yellow. I would not paint the carb, or the alum. blower housing backplate under the flywheel. Also don't paint the flywheel. I don't even paint the oil pan, you can't see it except from underneath the tractor, the layer of paint interupts the ground path of the elec. system, plus it insulates the oil pan which increases oil temps, but paint it if you want.
Then carefully reinstall all the tins. They just bolt-on, all 1/4" capscrews, but make sure you use the right length bolts, couple places have to have short, about 1/2" long bolts. And they have to attach in a certain order.
I have an Eastwood powder coat gun and P/C my engine tins, it's MUCH tougher than any commercially available spray paint. And epoxy paint or paint with hardener would work well too, but I've never seen it in spray cans. If you have a small "detail spray gun", available for $13 @ Harbor Freight, you could spray the tins with enamel W/Hardener. http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html
I'd remove ALL the engine tins, wire brush both sides, prime & paint the color coat. Don't forget to mask off the serial number & spec number plates. I'd also take the S/G pulley & basket off so you can get a good coat of paint on the frt of the block. And wire brush, prime & paint the pulley & basket. Don't get paint inside the V-belt groove. I would not paint the cast alum. cylinder head or the cooling fins on the block if this will be a working tractor. I'd clean all the other block surfaces with rags & solvent, get all the oil & rust off. I would not prime it, just thin down some of your top coat paint so it's fairly thin and BRUSH it on, many coats will be needed if you paint the engine yellow. I would not paint the carb, or the alum. blower housing backplate under the flywheel. Also don't paint the flywheel. I don't even paint the oil pan, you can't see it except from underneath the tractor, the layer of paint interupts the ground path of the elec. system, plus it insulates the oil pan which increases oil temps, but paint it if you want.
Then carefully reinstall all the tins. They just bolt-on, all 1/4" capscrews, but make sure you use the right length bolts, couple places have to have short, about 1/2" long bolts. And they have to attach in a certain order.
I have an Eastwood powder coat gun and P/C my engine tins, it's MUCH tougher than any commercially available spray paint. And epoxy paint or paint with hardener would work well too, but I've never seen it in spray cans. If you have a small "detail spray gun", available for $13 @ Harbor Freight, you could spray the tins with enamel W/Hardener. http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2005
- Messages
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- Binder 1650
Cross your fingers - I may put gas to the 1650 and try to give it a start today....
Denny, Steve S., Eastwood recently introduced a TWO PART PAINT IN A RATTLE CAN I don't have an HVLP sprayer and use rattle cans. Next time I paint some Cub Cadet parts I'm thinking of trying their two part clear coat over the yellow or white. I like the thought of a tougher paint finish. BTW, KENtuckyKEN is the one that told me about the new two part paint in a rattle can. Sure wish he'd post again...
Dennis, Kraig -- I'll be using IH Iron Guard yellow spray can for the engine. From the exploded view on the parts lookup it looks like only three tins to paint plus part of the block?? Not sure if or how I'll improvise painting the PTO, basket pulley, and front of the block but not planning to remove any of that...
