Archive through February 24, 2007

[digger]

Course the view out my window matches that road sign!

 

[jbliler]

Charlie, clean your glasses!

 

[rcole]

When it finally warms up, I plan to install a creeper, spring assist & 3 point hitch on my 106. The only creeper instructions I could find (for a model 100) show splitting the tractor in two. Is this absolutely required to install a creeper or does it just make the job easier?

 

[rwilke]

Dennis F.,
If I understood you correctly, our Starter/Generator doesn't turn the engine over at a high enough rpm to activate the ACR. But even if it did, most COMPRESSION TESTERS indicate the highest compression detected (at TDC) while cranking the engine, so the activation or not of the ACR shouldn't affect the compression reading, correct?

Frank M.,
Yep, racers and others use the LEAK DOWN TESTER for determining the pressure contained within a engine combustion chamber. I also understand how they can offer the user more information than a simple COMPRESSION TEST can...as it can lead you to where, if any, compression leaks may be occurring. Air leaking from the carb = bad intake valve seat. Air leaking from the exhaust pipe = bad exhaust valve seat. Air leaking from the crankcase vent = bad rings.
But as Timothy G. pointed out, with our Kohler engines we must position the piston at TDC, if not, the ACR will likely be slightly open & prevent the LEAK DOWN TESTER from giving you accurate information. Also as you pointed out, the user is required to have access to compressed air in order to pressurize the combustion chamber to conduct the test. Maybe not a big deal to some, but if you don't have access to an air compressor (like when looking at a garage sale tractor), it's an issue.

I've used a LEAK DOWN TESTER and it indicated air leakage from the rings, and both valves! It wasn't a surprise, as it was a very tired engine. But that information didn't tell me just HOW TIRED the overall engine condition was.

So although the COMPRESSION TEST may not lead you to which valve is leaking by or if the rings are worn, I'm thinking that it still should give you an indication as to the degree or level of combustion chamber "tightness" overall.
Lastly, it is very simple & quick to perform with minimal tools/equipment since all you need is the gage and a sparkplug wrench that can be done in the at remote locations.

I get the impression that you don't feel that a COMPRESSION TEST is worth conducting..... What am I missing?

Why wouldn't a COMPRESSION TESTER be a good, quick measuring tool for periodically determining our Kohler engines valve seat & piston ring sealing abilities / overall condition in the field or just in the garage?

Ryan W

 

[mgonitzke]

Roger C.-

I have removed and installed 3 or 4 creepers from various tractors, and I'll say that on a narrowframe such as your 106 you'll want to split it. It will be next to impossible to install the creeper without doing so. Simply remove the fenders and driveshaft, place jackstands under the footrest supports, remove the 6 transaxle bolts, and roll the transaxle out from under the tractor. If you don't run into any problems it should take less than an hour, and you'll have much better access for installing the creeper. And if you haven't already, I'd highly recommend putting a new bearing, front seal, and o-rings into the creeper, it's much easier now than it will be after it's on the tractor.

 

[glouderback]

Matt,
After you split the tractor to install the creeper tell us about putting the short clutch in. Ever try to get a clutch out after splitting?
G.L.

 

[wheinsohn]

Bring on the snow! Cleaned the driveway with the 106 this morning so I got some seat time in. The 1650 is back ready to go. 1 motor mount bolt was missing and another was broke off. A drill, an easyout, and 2 new bolts and she is ready for the snow. Everything is fueled up and facing the shed door. If we get the 24" that they say may be possible, the Farmall M sits there with the v-plow and windbreaker on it. It just needs a little gas and away I go.

 

[tgallagher]

Ryan D.,

The ACR Disengages at 600, so You would not get an accurate reading untill you spin it greater than 600RPM.

Therefore, if the exhaust valve closes later (ACR engaged) you are actually compressing less air than if the valve closed earlier. This would in effect give you a lower compression test reading.

 

[mgonitzke]

G.L.-

You remove the 4 bolts holding the engine and slide it forward, disconnect the clutch linkage and pivot pin and it comes out between the engine and pedastal. Shouldn't matter whether or not the transaxle is attached, I've done it both ways, although it'd be logical to remove the clutch before splitting the tractor.

 

[dsauve]

Finnaly us Wisconsin boys get to work out the machines. Only had about 5 inches here in Stevens Point but with all the places I blow out I was out on the 1250 for about three and a half hours. Stopped at the last place to add fuel and the starter went out had to tow the rig home on the trailer. Thank god for the winch on the trailer. More snow coming and no starter till monday afternoon.

 

[glouderback]

Matt,
Good deal!!! I have my 100 split now & was trying to get the clutch out & couldn't. I then read the manual & saw where I have to remove / slide the motor forward.It didn't make any sense to me why it wouldn't just come out with the tractor split but it will not. Whew---the wide frames are sure easier to work on!!!!!
G.L

 

[mhomrighausen]

Charlie P. That is how it looks outside with our windows.

 

[sblunier]

Ryan W.

Denny was trying to point out that compression testers do not give accurate readings on Kohlers because the ACR IS working. The Automoatic Compression Release, holds open a valve during the compression stroke at cranking RPM, less than +/-600 rpm. Unless you can spin it faster than that the ARC will be bleeding off compression to facilitate an easy start. SO......you will get false low readings using a compression tester on a single cylinder Kohler if you just crank it over, because of the ACR compression bleed-off.

The talk of a Simplicity or other brand S/G giving a good (or better reading) is because it turns backwards, defeating the ARC and giving full compression with out a valve held open.

 

[sblunier]

Charlie,

Steve B. has been busier than a one legged man in a butt kickin' contest lately.....a quick read over of the forum is about all I've had time for most nights.

 

[rwilke]

"Ahhhh, I see what you mean!" said the blind man to the deaf dude....

Sorry, Timothy and Dennis.......I can be kinda thick-headed at times. I see now that the ACR WILL interfere with a COMPRESSION TEST. Thus, here ends my COMPRESSION TEST questions.

SO, moving on with my quest for an 'engine condition test' which can be conducted with a minimum amount of equipment and tools: Going back to the Kohler Engine Service Manual, (DUH!) in Section #4 - Troubleshooting, it talks about 'Basic Engine Tests' including a "Crankcase Vacuum Test".

Has anyone here successfully conducted one of these tests?

If so, did you build your own & how large is the required "U" tube - it appears that it must be about 15"-20" tall?

The manual also talks about making sure the "shutoff clamp" is closed... Where is the clamp supposed to be located,, inline between the oil fill tube end and the manometer scale?

Any other tricks or notations worth mentioning?

As always - Thanks in advance for all input & advice!
Ryan W

 

[rwilke]

Steve B.,
Thanks for the further explanation! I can be pretty hard-headed! You were correct - I wasn't getting that whole "...Simplicity or other brand S/G giving a good (or better reading)..." bit,,, but you explained it well!

Although I (now) understand how it would work, I'm sure I won't go to that degree of messing around just to conduct a compression test.

Thanks!!
Ryan W

 

[eford]

Much appreciated for answers on that. I haven't owned a kohler bigger than a 10hp. I've driven his 1650 before but didn't notice anymore than usual for the vibration, but hearing some problems with bolts... I wondered.I had a sears w/16 tecumseh and wheelhorse w/16 vert briggs, they didn't vibrate that much and my curiosity was itchin to know.

 

[ljerickson]

I did a vacuum test not too long ago. The vinyl tube, 3-in-1 oil, the copper tube I found at the local hardware store. The cork came from a wine bottle. I drilled a 7/32" hole in the cork which fits the 1/4" tube nicely.

One problem with liquid manometers is that it's pretty easy to suck the manometer fluid into the engine or perhaps blow it out the other end. That's why I used the oil instead of water. A few cc's of oil 3-in-1 in the crankcase won't cause any trouble, I don't think. If I do this again, I think kerosene or diesel fuel would be better. The viscosity of the 3-in 1 oil is just high enough to cause some measurement problems.

The oil is a bit lighter than water, so I multiplied the results by 0.9 which is the specific gravity of the oil.

I didn't use the clamp, just pulled the dipstick and put the cork in carefully. The dipstick hole hole will puff some atomized oil in the air while it's open. It's not a good idea to breath this stuff.

Here's some pictures:

The Folgers coffee container covers the open end end of the manometer. This should limit the mess if there's severe blowby.

Have fun!
Lee

 

[tgallagher]

Question for you folks...

Where do you buy those aluminum ends for 2x6 ramps for loading your tractors?

I have a 4x4 dodge diesel (the bed is high) I have 2 2x8x12' rough oak planks that I wanted to put the ends on. I like the 12 foot planks because it decreases the angle and the 2" thick oak is less apt to snap half way on the truck rather than a regular KD 2x6.

 

[avanwettering]

Tim G. Northern Hydraulics has them up here in the mid west and many other farm and fleet type store carry them also. I think TSC also has them.