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Archive through December 06, 2004

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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Ken
Fan shrouds may not be all they are cracked up to be. Here is one on a 140 different colored tractor that I picked up for parts. Notice the fan shroud covers the fan from the top and sides but makes a perfect resting place for your hand when you have the fenders off and your fingers just naturally go over the back into the fan you can't see. When I picked it up I shook hands with the owner, the guy on the right and noticed he was missing the tips of all 4 fingers on his right hand. He cautioned me about doing it, said the manual tells you not to.....

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Tim- if you look at the efficiency curves of the Sundstrand Hydrostat application guide, you'll see that the output efficiency is somewhere between like... 97%, down to 85% based on torque load, position, fluid temp, etc. This assumes, of course, that you've got the recommended fluid capacity to avoid drawing aereated fluid and/or insufficiently cooled fluid INTO the hydrostat... so for a 12hp motor, you can WAG that your output horsepower is somewhere between 9.5 and 11hp depending on conditions. It also assumes that fluid viscosity is appropriate for ambient temperature conditions (thin enough for cold-start, but thick enough to absorb load, minimize friction, and transmit greatest energy, and draw away heat.
 
Richard- there's an old adage that says something to the effect of "when an amputee recommends that you abstain from a given activity, they're usually quite sincere".

I highly recommend that people not stand uphill of a rotary mower, and not mow hillsides or slippery grass without spiked golf-shoes.

23803.jpg

This little piggy went whee-whee-whee all the way across gramma's back-yard...
 
Dave Kamp

OUCH!!!!


Paul B.

Nice job on the Cub, almost looks like a Cadillac.
 
Bryan.
I got a spare cover for a 123, and it looks to be easer to replace the rear cover than remove the shift lever, anywho, I need to drain the old oil out of the rearend and clean it out.
I am hopeing on not haveing to use an external oil reserve for the loader, but if I have to, I have to I guess.
 
can i change the sheet medal from a 12hp to a 14hp. is it the same.this is on a 129 model
 
Dave,
Why do you have two cylinders for you power steering? How do you have then plumbed (if thats a real word)? I would have thought one would have been adequate. Do you still have a tie rod between the spindles? Are you using thrust bearings? If I decided to make my own spindles would #8 bolts be strong enough for the pivot and the axle? I noticed your steering box is quite small, where did you get it? Do you think that power steering generates much heat? Can you steer without the tractor running?
Just a few questions. Still waiting for it to snow!
irritated.gif

Thanks,
Terry
 
What's that smell ...

Lonny why not make a "deep sump" rear cover if you're not going to be running any impliments back there. I use to make 9 quart SM Chevy oil pans for the extra oil.

Richard I've got a messed up finger from a drill press fight , I kinda got wrapped up into my work but I'd still rather have a shroud ... ;)

Dave put yer sock back on
 
Thanks Dave just what I was looking for.

Charlie, possibly something cooking, us New England guys now that winter is here are just sittin around and thinking up new creative tractors for the spring. Just kidding those are just the guys that aren't workin everyday. Hmmmm

Love this site just finished with my 149 and ez vac all set for the snow. and my QA42A

Cub On
Tim
 
Hey Charlie. I wish I had a set to finish the look off. I am watching out for a pair. Missed out on some the other day. I have saved just enough whit to paint a set up. Paul
 
Lonny- you'll need a few gallons' worth of reservoir for the loader, but that doesn't mean there isn't already suitable storage available. If you've got tubular stanchions, they'll work fine- just weld the tops and bottoms shut, install fittings and a filler. You don't want to put a whole lotta extra fluid in the transaxle- there needs to be plenty of expansion room as the HyTran warms- if you don't allow sufficient space, pressure builds rapidly and blows out seals.

How many, and how big (bore and stroke) are the cylinders used on your loader? I can give you a fair calculation of the minimum amount of reservoir capacity you'll need...
 
Dave,
I am planning on useing 4 16" rams, 1 1/2" or 2" bore depending on what I can get through Farm & Fleet
 
>Why do you have two cylinders for you power steering?
--TO make it balanced-steering. Although they're manufactured as double-acting cylinders, I have them configured as push-left, push-right. The displacement of a common double-acting hydraulic cylinder is not symmetrical- one side has a piston rod, the other side is all open volume. The rod takes up a substantial amount of displacement on the 'pull' side. If I were to use just one cylinder, i would have 3 turns lock-to-lock in one direction, but only 1.5 turns lock-to-lock in the other.

>How do you have then plumbed (if thats a real word)?

Yes, it is. Plumbing comes from the Latin word 'Plumbum', which means 'Lead'. This is why the symbol for Lead on the Periodic Table is Pb.
I have one hose going from each cylinder's PUSH side of the piston, to the hydraulic steering valve. Action of one cylinder pushes the opposite piston back, sending it's oil back through steering valve to reservoir. It's a push-push system.

>I would have thought one would have been adequate.
--Oh, one would have more than adequate force, but it'd be 'unbalanced' steering... quicker in one direction than in the other.

>Do you still have a tie rod between the spindles?
--Yes, in back, like a conventional steering system... mine's 1" OD x .188" wall DOM steel tubing, very sloppily welded together on a rainy day. Need to pretty it up.

>Are you using thrust bearings?
-Not anywhere in the steering system...

>If I decided to make my own spindles would #8 bolts be strong enough for the pivot and the axle?
-They'd be appropriate for the knuckle kingpins, but not axle pivot... Grade 8 can get pretty brittle, and the axle-pin might snap under a good shock. You won't be drilling a Grade 8 to stick a roll-pin through it...

>I noticed your steering box is quite small, where did you get it?
--Oh, that's not really a 'steering box' so much as it is a 'hydraulic steering valve'. The one in the picture is actually something I 'liberated' from an old piece of scrapped-out farm machinery. The one I actually ended up using in Loader-Mutt is a Sauer-Sundstrand from their "OSPB" line of steering valves, I purchased it from Northern Hydraulic. It has about a 4 ci displacement for each rotation of the steering wheel. Since the steering rams displace a total of 14CI of fluid, it takes about 3.25 rotations of the steering wheel to turn from one lock, to the other.

>Do you think that power steering generates much heat?
--nope- at THIS load level, it's essentially insignificant. Matter of fact, since the valve runs in open-center mode most of the time, the steering circuit probably helps COOL the fluid when the loader valves are operating.

>Can you steer without the tractor running?
--Sure can- just don't have power-assist. The hydraulic steering valve has a tiny pump in it... the pump provides pilot-pressure and volume-metering when hydraulic pressure is available, and when pressure is not, the pump moves oil from one cylinder to the other. Effort is kinda high with the loader leanin' on it, but no worse than a mechanical steering system... easy to turn if the tractor's moving, hard to turn when it's sitting still.
 
Lonny- you'll need somewhere between 3-5gpm of pump flow to operate the loader at a decent speed, and you'll need at least 3 gallons of reservoir to make it work respectably. With plumbing and valves, your full hydraulic system's capacity will be around 4-5 gallons.
 
Dave,

I hope the pump I got will work, as far as gpm's and preasure building, it came off a chevy with a seperate oil reserve for power steering, I think it was a chevy cavalear, if not I will have to pick one up fron Northern or Surplus center.
 
Your hydraulic pump is a power steering pump?

Well, in some light-duty applications, PS pumps will work... but I wouldn't reccomend one for an end-loader application. Power Steering pumps are typically vane-type, with about a quart of reservoir. Vane pumps aren't fixed-displacement, and they've got only 1-2gpm of flow capacity at low head pressure. Although it'll work, chances are very good that you won't be able to get it to lift anything unless the engine's absolutely screamin'. Using a larger-diameter cylinder will help improve that, but it'll lift much slower, and you'll end up with not enough reservoir really quick.

Much better way is to get a 3-4gpm fixed-displacement gear-pump, with about a 6" diameter V-belt sheave, and drive it off the PTO clutch sheave, use the loader stanchion as a reservoir, and use a dual spool valve with about 7gpm flow capacity and an integral 2000psi pressure-relief valve. Pairs of 1.5" cylinders are very common on Johnson loaders- they provide quite a reasonable lift capacity, speed, and stroke without requiring so much reservoir capacity. 1.5" cylinders, however, are not nearly as common as 2" cylinders, and typically aren't as easy to rebuild.
 
Paul,

I read your story about the restoration of the 1250. Good job. May I ask a question? You stated you salvaged the decals. How did you do this? Did you just mask them off or did you actually remove them? I am interested because I am about to start a restoration and would like to salvage my decals if possible.

Thanks very much.

slim
 
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