3184 seems to be running hot

[bbingham]

My brother in-law and I tried to adjust the idle on the carb again for the umpteenth time - the single idle adjustment on these carbs is crap in my opinion. Still surging and idling roughly every so often - like it goes out of sync - speeds up, slows down, almost quits, speeds up, etc... Linkages are free and springs are good. It is really starting to annoy me. He suggested I put some seafoam engine cleaner in the fuel tank to clean out the engine/carb, maybe it is gunked up - said he does it to his tractors every spring (He has a variety of yellow and orange iron and is meticulous about maintenace on his equipment). He said it may run rough until the additive burns through with the tank of fuel. Maybe he put too much in? When I mowed the lawn a couple of days ago for the first time this year, I noticed the engine seemed to be running even hotter than usual and spitting kind of - not backfiring but more like a spitting noise. The tractor also lost power and died - almost like running out of fuel, but the tank was still almost full - started right back up though and ran okay through the rest of the yard. Could the additive be causing the even hotter running and spitting noise. Since I first bought it used from the local independent cub dealer last Spring I always thought that the engine ran kind of hot. I dont have much experience with these Kohler Command engines or cubs for that matter so maybe it's just me. The tranny and engine oil is new and levels are correct, plugs are new and gapped correctly, air filter new, carb adjusted per manufacturer's instructions AGAIN. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Bill

 

[mgonitzke]

I'm in the process of cleaning up a Command 18 for my 582, and I was told that these do run a bit hot. Therefore, I can't stress enough that cleanliness of the engine is extremely important. Pull off a couple of the cylinder shields, and if it looks dirty, I would seriously consider pulling the motor out, removing all of the shields, and thoroughly cleaning everything. I am told these engines need to move a lot of air to stay cool.

You also may want to see if you have a blown head gasket. I've read that these are notorious for this if you don't clean them and let them get hot. Does it have the correct weight of oil? This engine has hydraulic lifters, and I've also read that they can "pump up" and cause weird things to happen if the incorrect weight of oil is used.

 

[kweaver]

Matt you left out , run at WOT to help that air move.

Bill you might try one step lower cooler plug too.

 

[bbingham]

I think I used 5W-30 oil in the engine due to the possible extreme temps (-20) in northern NY state during the winter snow blowing season. Is that too thin for the 18 hp command engine - would you recommend 10W-30 instead? I used the manuf suggested plugs - how do I identify a step lower plug? The engine is very clean, I thought it was a replacement when I bought it used - either the guy before me kept it clean or the dealer pressure washed it - I doubt the second one. I was not impressed with their "go over it before we deliver it" promise - they were supposed to have serviced the mower including new filters, oils, plugs, grease the zerks, check the belt and replace, fix the leaking front tire and correct the mower's leaving a one inch uncut line - didn't do any of the above. I had to also change the two PTO belts because they were worn too. I called to complain and was told to bring it in and they will look at it - great customer service, that's why I had it delivered which I paid for because I didn't have a trailer myself to transport it home. What is WOT? Thanks guys for the suggestions and advice.

 

[kweaver]

Bill - WOT = wide open throttle
Since it's an aircooled engine they are designed to get maximum air flow at 3600 rpm. That's what makes hydros so much better than gear slammers

Whenever I want a hotter or colder plug I just tell the parts guy ... now if they know the diff it's a gamble.

Don't just go by a clean "outside" of the engine, mice love building nest inside the covers. That will fry an engine quick! Pull a cover or 2 like Matt said to be sure. I've been that route before and had the paint burn off a Briggs once from a mouse nest.

It's ok to run multi grade oil in the winter but in the summer months you need to run a single weight as a multi will make it burn oil.

 

[mgonitzke]

Kentucky-

Mine had a mummified mouse caught in one of the ignition coils. Scared the crap out of me when I took the flywheel shroud off.

BTW, Kohler specifies 10w-30 above 30 degrees F for this motor. I have read that the hydraulic lifters can "pump up" and bend the pushrods if 30W is used.

 

[bbingham]

Well I syphoned all the fuel out and replaced the fuel filter. It ran great for about a half hour at both wide open throttle and a nice smooth low idle too - no surging at all. Then the backfiring/spitting, rough idle and stall started again. I am ready to smash the tractor with a sledge hammer and get something else. It would start back up but run rough unless I gave it full choke, as soon as I unchoke it, it would run okay for maybe a minute and the backfiring, rough idle, surging would start all over again. I am tired of this with this machine - what could be causing it to do this. The plugs were gapped and installed maybe 6-months ago, right before snow blowing season. The heat sheilds/shroud was removed and the engine was gone over with an air nozzle to blow away dirt, etc. - very little if any. The engine oil level is correct. It acts up when a hydraulic load is applied - like using the bucket with a load of soil in in it, using the mower deck or when just sitting still with nothing on the hydraulics. Hydraulic fluid level is correct. This has been an ongoing problem for the most part, since I bought it about a year ago. Runs okay then like crap, then okay for a while, then like crap, I am at wits end with this engine. What could be causing this erratic operation? I have set the carb/idle many times using the manual. Nothing is loose in the linkage/springs, etc...Checked the fuel pump it is operating. Shouldn't it stall if given full choke while running? It just keeps running, almost seems smoother too. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Bill

 

[kide]

Take the fuel tank off and clean it thoroughly, put a new inline filter in , clean the float bowl on the carb and the jet that the adjustment screw screws into. You've got classic symptoms of crap in the fuel system....

 

[lhinds]

Bill; I agree with kendal. Also check for the fuel lines breaking down and letting small bits of rubber go through. Pay close attention to what is in the float bowl when you take it off.
Luther

 

[bmoore]

Bill B,
Since you said it continues to run with full choke, and seems smoother, there might be an air leak between the carb and the engine. Matt's suggestion of a head gasket could do the same thing. That would create a lean mixture, which would increase the heat level, also. I'm not familiar with this engine, but I looked at Kohler's site, and see there is a manifold with three gaskets. Is everything properly tightened with good gaskets? Is the throttle shaft tight? Any chance of a crack in the manifold itself? Warping from over-tightening at some time?
If I did this next step, I would definitely do it outside. With the engine running, you could shoot some starting fluid at the gaskets mentioned, one at a time, all the way around each gasket. If the engine speeds up while shooting the fluid on an area, there is an air leak there. People have used a spray oil to do this, too, but it's kind of messy, and anything that drips onto a hot surface will smoke and stink. Maybe somebody has a suggestion for something else. Water could work to very temporarily seal the leaking area, but I would be leery of cold water hitting a hot surface, like an exhaust component.

 

[gerickson]

I have a couple thoughts on this: Check or replace your fuel lines. They could be getting soft and when you apply load they might be collapsing. I had a problem with my Command at Plow Day a couple years ago. The clamp in inside the spark plug boot was not very tight. It would idle and run but when I plowed and it got hot it would miss terribly. Just a thought.

 

[bbingham]

Thanks guys for all the thoughts and ideas. I ended up pulling the carb off this morning and cleaning out the bowl, ports, etc... pulled the needle and cleaned it off and blasted the entire carb inside and out with Brakeclean and followed with air after it soaked a bit. The bowl did have some gunk in it. I re-installed it and the tractor is running like a champ - first time since I have had it that it is running as it should. Full power, no surging, idling smoothly at any setting. Thanks again for everyone's input and advice, the collective knowledge base and experience on this website is priceless.

 

[kide]

Bill:

 

[bmoore]

Bill,
Cleaning the carb was probably a lot better idea than the sledge hammer tune-up. I believe that Uncle Grumpy does some computer repair with that method, though...
Glad to hear it's running right.