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Archive through September 22, 2010
- Thread starter kmcconaughey
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
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- Home of the Plow Special
Todd-
I know what your problem is....
When I bought my first Cub Cadet in 1997, (Geeze, that was probably 20 tractors ago!) the 1450 I had kept stalling while going up a short but very steep hill in my back-yard.
As I would go up the hill, I would instinctively apply MORE hydro lever in an attempt to keep the tractor moving forward at the same ground speed, similar to how you would push down the gas pedal on a car when you go up a hill.
But that applies MORE LOAD to the engine. The last thing you want to do going up a hill is to add MORE load.
Try this... Next time you go up the hill and the tractor slows down, back OFF the hydro. The engine will maintain RPM and your speed will not slow down as much as you'd think.
Sam-
Welcome to the forum.
A rear-PTO was made for the narrow frame gear-drives, like that 102, but the Cub tillers are all BELT drive, not PTO drive. <FONT COLOR="ff0000">I</FONT><FONT COLOR="000000">H</FONT> never actually made any PTO driven implements for the rear PTO on a Cub Cadet. Odd....
A belt driven tiller works great and would be a good way to add ballast weight to the rear of the tractor. Buy the tractor, and find a tiller for it. You won't regret it.
I know what your problem is....
When I bought my first Cub Cadet in 1997, (Geeze, that was probably 20 tractors ago!) the 1450 I had kept stalling while going up a short but very steep hill in my back-yard.
As I would go up the hill, I would instinctively apply MORE hydro lever in an attempt to keep the tractor moving forward at the same ground speed, similar to how you would push down the gas pedal on a car when you go up a hill.
But that applies MORE LOAD to the engine. The last thing you want to do going up a hill is to add MORE load.
Try this... Next time you go up the hill and the tractor slows down, back OFF the hydro. The engine will maintain RPM and your speed will not slow down as much as you'd think.
Sam-
Welcome to the forum.
A rear-PTO was made for the narrow frame gear-drives, like that 102, but the Cub tillers are all BELT drive, not PTO drive. <FONT COLOR="ff0000">I</FONT><FONT COLOR="000000">H</FONT> never actually made any PTO driven implements for the rear PTO on a Cub Cadet. Odd....
A belt driven tiller works great and would be a good way to add ballast weight to the rear of the tractor. Buy the tractor, and find a tiller for it. You won't regret it.
Alright experts, do any of these things appear to be my potential issue:
Exhaust valve sticking, use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas to help lube it up.
The coil could be bad?
The plug could be bad?
Fuel cap vent plugged?
Fuel filter plugged?
Carb out of spec.
Governor set too high?
My 128 runs fine so I can always "borrow" parts from it to see what gets solved.
I am going to get it out tomorrow and just let it sit on the driveway and see if it will do the same thing not going anywhere. It all seems good for about 15 minutes, and then down hill. Although, it was doing it quicker this evening and that was after filling the gas tank up. Hmmmm... I think I'll start there.
The grade of the side of my house goes from the front being a single story to the back a two story. The elevation must change 10-15 feet over 60 feet.
Exhaust valve sticking, use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas to help lube it up.
The coil could be bad?
The plug could be bad?
Fuel cap vent plugged?
Fuel filter plugged?
Carb out of spec.
Governor set too high?
My 128 runs fine so I can always "borrow" parts from it to see what gets solved.
I am going to get it out tomorrow and just let it sit on the driveway and see if it will do the same thing not going anywhere. It all seems good for about 15 minutes, and then down hill. Although, it was doing it quicker this evening and that was after filling the gas tank up. Hmmmm... I think I'll start there.
The grade of the side of my house goes from the front being a single story to the back a two story. The elevation must change 10-15 feet over 60 feet.
Home of the Plow Special
I agree with your answer on the tractor . I had the same issue with mine till I learned how to use the power I had at hand lol. I can stall my 149 with the hydro if I don`t pay attention. I hauled three gangs of disk tonight with my 1512D and had 150lbs on the first set and 185 lbs on the second and 75 lbs on the third set. after a few runs over the lawn I had a friend that weights 178 jump on and well . The tractor still pulled it, all I just had to pull back on the hydro just a touch.I did level a section 60 ft by 100 ft in three hrs with the 1512. I`am always amazed at what can be done with just a few hp.
I agree with your answer on the tractor . I had the same issue with mine till I learned how to use the power I had at hand lol. I can stall my 149 with the hydro if I don`t pay attention. I hauled three gangs of disk tonight with my 1512D and had 150lbs on the first set and 185 lbs on the second and 75 lbs on the third set. after a few runs over the lawn I had a friend that weights 178 jump on and well . The tractor still pulled it, all I just had to pull back on the hydro just a touch.I did level a section 60 ft by 100 ft in three hrs with the 1512. I`am always amazed at what can be done with just a few hp.
Todd Illenden
Alright experts, do any of these things appear to be my potential issue:
Exhaust valve sticking, use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas to help lube it up.
The coil could be bad? ( if it was a hill would not matter)
The plug could be bad? (same)
Fuel cap vent plugged? (same)
Fuel filter plugged? (same)
Carb out of spec. ( possible)
Governor set too high? ( possible)
IF you run at wot and come to an incline with your tractor you will have to pull back on the hydro handle to deliver more power to help it accept the incline and not drag back. If you move the handle ahead you add more load and can stall the tractor. I don`t know how you run your tractor ,but all the cubs I have are different as to what they will do at any give rpm and what gear or where I have the hydro handle put to do what I want.I did get it right after some trail and some errors lol.If that tractor sit for some time I would go through it and Give it a good cleaning, start at the gas tank and lines to the carb and work your way through to the carb.If you do you will learn more how things work and will end up with a great tractor for many years.
Alright experts, do any of these things appear to be my potential issue:
Exhaust valve sticking, use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas to help lube it up.
The coil could be bad? ( if it was a hill would not matter)
The plug could be bad? (same)
Fuel cap vent plugged? (same)
Fuel filter plugged? (same)
Carb out of spec. ( possible)
Governor set too high? ( possible)
IF you run at wot and come to an incline with your tractor you will have to pull back on the hydro handle to deliver more power to help it accept the incline and not drag back. If you move the handle ahead you add more load and can stall the tractor. I don`t know how you run your tractor ,but all the cubs I have are different as to what they will do at any give rpm and what gear or where I have the hydro handle put to do what I want.I did get it right after some trail and some errors lol.If that tractor sit for some time I would go through it and Give it a good cleaning, start at the gas tank and lines to the carb and work your way through to the carb.If you do you will learn more how things work and will end up with a great tractor for many years.
Dennis Frisk - Thanks for info. I'll have to measure stroke tomorrow, but I think its a K161. I think my wrenches are the first to touch any bolts on the tractor since it was assembled, nice yellow paint underneath engine.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the info Matt
J
jott
Guest
Don T, The way that that Hy-tran ecapsulates water is so the water that gets into the trans doesnt rust anything. if the oil doesnt suck up the moisture, then things are going to rust. And as you said, ATF doesnt suck up the miosture so id only put hy-tran in. I could be wrong, but this is what ive heard and hold to be true.
Josh Ott
I guess it really depends on how much maintenance you do as to what is best. I have a five gallon jug of atf here and will use it . I just don`t leave my tractor out side and will change the fluids more often than what I think was done in the past.Water will score the squash plates and ruin the pump for what I saw when I had my pump apart. I had two Cubs arrive here with ATF in the rears and they still run great. If you store your Cubs in an unheated shed then hytra is probably the best choice. But mine are stored in a heated garage and I will use up my jug of ATF and change it every 3 years. Works for me,.
I guess it really depends on how much maintenance you do as to what is best. I have a five gallon jug of atf here and will use it . I just don`t leave my tractor out side and will change the fluids more often than what I think was done in the past.Water will score the squash plates and ruin the pump for what I saw when I had my pump apart. I had two Cubs arrive here with ATF in the rears and they still run great. If you store your Cubs in an unheated shed then hytra is probably the best choice. But mine are stored in a heated garage and I will use up my jug of ATF and change it every 3 years. Works for me,.
J
jott
Guest
Don T, I see what you mean and that all makes sense. I have my tractors in an unheated shed with the south door always open so hytran works fer me!
T-Mo
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- Terry Reed
Timothy,
Fredricktown, Missouri.
http://www.jptractorsalvage.com/cubarama.html
It's tomorrow and Saturday. All Farmall Cubs and Cub Cadets with a few bigger Farmalls and International tractors thrown in. It's held every year, the last weekend in September. This year is the ninth annual show.
Fredricktown, Missouri.
http://www.jptractorsalvage.com/cubarama.html
It's tomorrow and Saturday. All Farmall Cubs and Cub Cadets with a few bigger Farmalls and International tractors thrown in. It's held every year, the last weekend in September. This year is the ninth annual show.
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- Allen Schumacher
Don T., Great observation on pulling back on the hydro lever under load. I never thought of it, but pushing on the hydro lever doesn't add throttle, its actually shifting to to a higher gear! Anyone that ever drove some type of stick transmission realises you downshift under severe load. The years I have read things here, I dont think anyone ever really compared the 2 trannys that way. I've always been "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead !"..
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- Allen Schumacher
My apology to Art Atay...he was the first to mention pulling back on the hydro lever going up hill...Don mentioned it also in the grand scheme of things to help Todd.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Todd I.
Another suggestion.
Too high of a float level in the carb can cause flooding at odd angles of operation...leading to "loading up" on fuel that can kill power and take some time to clear up. Does it not need much choke to start? Does it blow black smoke? All signs of an overfueled engine, that may get worse on inclines.
Just a thought, because while the hydro thing is reasonable, it doesn't explain the "takes a while to recover" part.
Another suggestion.
Too high of a float level in the carb can cause flooding at odd angles of operation...leading to "loading up" on fuel that can kill power and take some time to clear up. Does it not need much choke to start? Does it blow black smoke? All signs of an overfueled engine, that may get worse on inclines.
Just a thought, because while the hydro thing is reasonable, it doesn't explain the "takes a while to recover" part.
Joey D.
http://cubfaq.com/questions.html
34. What transmission and engine fluids does my pre 1981 Cub use?
http://cubfaq.com/questions.html
34. What transmission and engine fluids does my pre 1981 Cub use?
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Todd I - well so far you've heard alot from some very good experts. I thought it interesting that you listed a sticking valve 1st on your list of possibilities. Couple things lead me in that direction. You indicate it seems fine for about 15 minutes. I believe that's about the amount of time for the engine to get fully warm. 2nd, going up the incline and applying more hydro speed does cause some strain/pull on the engine (rather than the reverse which has now been pointed out several times), but your governor should take care of the added load on the engine. Unless you're jamming the hydro to full forward speed I really don't think you should be able to bog the engine down to the point of it running rough. In my view the incline of 15 feet over a 60 foot distance if hardly a hill. If your engine were running correct a Hydro with the engine at full throttle and blades engaged should handle this without hardly noticing. Overall I lean toward the sticking valve. Marvel in the crankcase (besides the gas) could be helpful, but I don't think it will work over nite. I think it would take at least 2-3 hours of run time to even begin to show improvement. MMO is probably the simpliest and easiest place to start. I also like Steve's suggestion on the carb. That's an easy step to make sure everything is in order. Someone mentioned making sure the valves are adjusted correctly. That also is somewhat easy to check and adjust, and it's easier when you have the carb off, so I'd do it then. You also mention smoke (or something) coming out the breather/valve cover. If the engine is really running correctly you really shouldn't see the smoke. If you do see it all the time, and all the other things are correct then it sounds like the engine is getting tired and you're getting oil blow by. The MMO may help here as well. I'd still check all the other things on your list but I'd be surprised if you had a plugged gas tank vent. If it was I don't think it would matter if you were running up an incline or on flat ground. Spark plug is a long shot but just as well change it. Carb out of spec?? If you mean needle adjustments, well, I suppose it could be, but again, seems like this would show up on flat ground. And lastly, Governor adjustment, well, I'd leave that last. I think your Governor would have to be set nearly off completely to get your symptoms. If your Governor isn't working you should be able to tell by running on flat ground with the blades engaged, by just pushing the Hydro forward a little to quickly. If the engine bogs down immediately or begins to stall then it would seem your Governor isn't working. If the Governor seems to work correctly on flat ground as I suggested testing I'd leave it alone. One other suggestion would be to remove the head and decarbon the head and piston. Have a look at the cylinder, see how much play or slop you may have between the piston and cylinder wall. In my view decarboning is a "must" on any recent engine acquisition, especially when you don't good history. Good luck with this and I hope you find the problem.
Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (even tho they catch an occasional illness)
Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (even tho they catch an occasional illness)
