Archive through October 21, 2012

[hydroharry]

Gerry - well now, I thought your Kohler spring special "might" have been an AQS but I see now as you say, it wasn't. I actually based my assumption initially on the engine being black and that there was a "wire" instead of a rod used for the throttle/governor linkage. I guess sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees - the little details when the BIG details are right in front of me. The biggest thing is the coil smack dab there in front of me. The coil on an AQS is mounted on the other side. Now, you could look on the bottom front side of the cylinder wall (PTO side) and see if there is a threaded hole there that would be used to mount the muffler box for an AQS, if Kohler had wanted to use it for one in 1995.

Jeremiah - if Gerry will post another pic of his engine viewed just a bit more to the front, you will see the correct heat shield for your 149.

 

[dfrisk]

JEREMIAH - As you said, Vapor lock is something that only effects fuel delivery systems in hot weather on hot engines. It's when gasoline vaporizes inside the fuel line. Most of the old carburated engines only had fuel pumps mounted to the engine, and "sucked" gas all the way from the tank, then "pushed" it to the carb. If the fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump ran close to something hot, like the exhaust, the gas would vaporize in the fuel line and the pump wouldn't pump the vapor. Let things cool off and the engine would start right back up. The gas going from the pump to the carb could also vaporize, but as long as the pump could get gas, the pump would eventually push gas through to the carb.

Dad had a '56 F350 pickup from about 1959/'60 till about 1965. WHAT a beast! It had the 292 Y-block engine, which stock had one exh manifold feeding the other manifold with a cross over pipe aiming up from the front of the engine over the valve covers and frt of the intake manifold just inches from the carb, then down to dump into the frt of the other exh manifold. That cross-over put a TON of heat into the fuel pump, gas lines, & carb. Seemed like Dad had to replace the carb & fuel pump at least every summer to keep it running. A simple conversion to dual exhausts straight out the back of the engine compartment and down would have cured the problem! I drove a 1957 F750 Ford truck with a 292 for the township road commisioner, and it had the same problem. In the winter when it's cold they run great.

So vapor lock is caused by heat, and is because the fuel pump can't pump vapor, and normally the fuel pump gets blamed and is replaced, but protecting the fuel lines to and from the fuel pump from heat is the real cure. Even something simple like wrapping aluminum foil around the fuel lines helps, or routing rubber fuel lines away from hot things like the exhaust.

Today's cars/trucks don't have the problem because most of them have elec. pumps IN the gas tank, and they run lots more fuel pressure, and lots of the fuel lines are now special gas-resistant plastic or nylon. The pressure increases the gas's resistance to vaporizing.

 

[rbeem]

The confuguliated fuel line with site glass and oversize filer + dirty fuel tank is the problem.
Vapor Lock....please. I don't think so.
Get a clean tank, lose the site glass, get a different gravity feed type sintered metal filter.
I've had mixed results with that Kohler filter. If I have a full tank and keep running over semi-rough ground no problems.
If I have less than half a tank or running on the road the tractor will starve out.

THE FILTER.
The first couple years those filters work just "OK" for gravity feed. Once you get a couple years on them they get a little dirty and perhaps the material swells the pores shut a bit. After that you will pull your hair out trying to fiqure out why that little 12" line is not moving fuel to the carb.
I finnaly went to a sintered metal filter and have has ZERO problems since.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jonathan S. TEXAS CARS WARS is correct. Upon doing some reading last night it is to use the white vinegar to loosen/remove the rust and the baking soda to neutralize the vinegar. It's sad that a lot of people like to use muriatic acid and then don't really read up on what can go wrong as Charlie pointed out by using the wrong things with it. Many years ago when it was time to clean the milking equipment my older brother dumped acid and chlorine into the same tank of water. Thank God (literally) our Dad had witnessed Mike doing that and told us to run. He quickly reached in and pulled the drain and ran outside to fresh air. He the propped open the doors and let the place air out. We were very sternly informed that my brother had just created a nerve gas that would have killed us had we stayed in the milk house very long. My Dad's WWII military training took effect really fast that evening. That is why I believe in using the white vinegar and baking soda. It may take awhile longer however it is sure a lot safer.

Dennis F. The CASE 210 series garden tractors used a heat shield between the carburetor and the exhasust/muffler. Without it once the engine got hot enough the tractor would literally quit running. Still... that was one cool little tractor and it is too bad that I had to sell it.

 

[jbaker]

heres a few shots of the heat sheilds on my units..

Harry I could not get a good pic inside my fuel tank but will try when its empty again

169w/k341

149/k321 waiting for rebuild

129w/k301

109w/k241..note a very crude p.o. mod that i will fix this winter

And Finally a parting shot of what is left of my FIRST cub a 128...R.I.P.

 

[wshytle]

Here you go Hydro.

Tell me how to fix this.

Again, this is a K-321A from a 149. You can see the small oil port to the breather chamber right below the blowout.

 

[jbaker]

Wayne, a whole lotta jb weld.....LOL

looks like a boat anchor now

 

[jchamberlin]

Jeff: Thanks for the pics of the heat shield. (You just HAD to throw in the 169, didn't you

)

Rick: Your insight was EXACTLY what I was looking for when I posted my fuel line quandary, thanks.

Do either you or Dennis have a P/N, manufacturer, or vendor for the sintered bronze fuel filter? Personally, I'm surprised they work with a gravity fed line; I have several of the plastic-element-in-a-glass-tube type that I got at Advance Auto, but I thought they were exclusively for automotive applications, i.e., with at least 7 psi on the line (although I do have one installed on my generator).

By-the-way, should we tell Harry that the hood hinge he noticed came from you and was fabricated in stainless steel?

 

[dfrisk]

JEREMIAH - It seems like my filter was made by Mr.Gasket, back in the early 1980's, Sorry I don't have a part number... I threw the package away...

It's been a few years since I saw something similar in Summit's cat.

Why don't you try pouring a few ounces of gas through one of the filters you have in the direction of the arrow if there is one, and if the gas flows through, they should work

 

[dfrisk]

HA-HA... I checked Summit for Mr. Gasket and they still make the filter I used! http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-9748/
But the one I used had 1/4" hose barb ends. 3/8" would require some different fittings on the tank & carb. I have found them with removable plastic hose barb ends for 1/4", 5/16", & 3/8" hose but I didn't really care for those. The solid one-piece die cast ones leave fewer places for leaks.

 

[jchamberlin]

Dennis: That is exactly the type of filter that I have. I discovered, though, that the filter elements are not interchangeable between the metal-ended variety and the plastic-insert variety --one of them is slightly longer than the other. I agree with you, I like the solid metal ends better, but what are you going to do if they don't make them any more? I don't think the 12" line is long enough to handle the adapters necessary to neck up to 3/8" on both ends. I'm beginning to think up ways to attach a filter directly to the carburetor like the Fords and Chevys I've run, or take Wayne's option and just do away with trying to filter the gas --if I can ever get my tank truly clean!

Again, thanks for the link.

 

[dfrisk]

JEREMIAH - I'd search your local hardware store for brass 1/8" male NPT x 3/8" hose barb elbows for installing in the carb inlet, might be a difficult part to find. On the fuel tank end you might be able to find a fuel valve that has a 1/8" NPT inlet and 3/8" hose barb outlet. Or you could use hose mender fittings to adapt from 1/4" to 3/8", they're molded plastic and increase from 1/4" and may be available with 3/8" on the other end. Brass is typically used on gas lines, nylon and other plastics tend to get brittle with age & exposure to gas. I have some adapter bushings that I found in the field & yard sprayer parts aisle of the loca farm & fleet store. It won;t really matter if your CC has 1/4" or 3/8" fuel line, both are WAY more than needed for a Kohler in a CC. Just make sure you use rubber line rated for use with gasoline.

The filter sleeves are removable, therefore you can clean them if you're careful not to damage them. Typically just rinsing them off with clean gas makes them good as new.

The one filter I had was adjustable for the length of the filter sleeve, the diecast stem that stuck through the filer sleeve and threaded into the other end of the filter could be screwed in to seal the filter while allowing the ends to seal on the glass tube.

I first bought one of those filters for my CC 72 when I first got it, then put one on my OSSA 250 enduro bike a year or so later. OSSA is Spanish, and European bike co's put fuel filtration in the carb, so no filter on the tank, but My bike and a 32 mm Mukuni carb off a Suzuki on it and Japanese bike makers put fule filtration on the gas tank, so no filter on the carb or gas tank either, so I used one of those filters. Plus I re-plumbed the fuel system on my Super H ten yrs ago and put one on there. So 8 or 10 HP Kohler, 20 HP 2-stroke dirt bike, or 33 HP tractor engine, they work well.

 

[rbeem]

Prime Line filter # 7-02357-1 is what I run.

 

[hydroharry]

Jeremiah, Dennis and Rick - HEY!!!!! Wait a minute. I think Rick may have just figured something out. I should have mentioned it yesterday. One of Jeremiah's pics shows the fuel line running very close to the exhaust outlet - what's the chance the fuel is being vaporized when the tank is at it's lowest level? Jeremiah, I think you should re-route and shorten that fuel line where it connects at the carb. I'll try to repost Jeremiah's pic but it might be to big.

(Jeremiah - did you say that hinge is stainless steel? Dang, sounds nice)

Charlie was here!

Wayne - that hole in your block looks about the size of a silver dollar, not a 50cent piece. Now the youngsters on her probably won't know either of those coins. Rather than use it for a boat anchor you could send it back to Kohler and have them use it to make a brand new bath tub.

 

[rbeem]

Harry, I made his stainless hinge. Good eyes!

My issue with 1/2 tank problems were more related to pressure drop. (Less push to get thru the filter) I would forget about vapor lock in Jeremiahs case.
It's odd but it is fairly easy to cause a zero-flow condition in ththese.

 

[fcurrier]

Well, I guess it's got to be a broken rod in the K341. Pulled the head today and found the piston nearly at the bottom of its stroke and not moving. Pushed it down a little and it stopped the crank from turning. Might be very lucky that there's not a window in the block.

That greenish color on top of the block and on the head is a pretty true color. Seems to me it must have something to do with what was being used for gas?

 

[hydroharry]

Frank - that is strange to see that greenish color on the insides of the head and around the valves. Wonder what was in the fuel. I remember in an earlier post something about this engine having been recently overhauled when it was advertised a couple years earlier. Based on the looks of the head gasket there may be something to that, but it also looks like the gasket either blew or was leaking based on that oil over near the single stud in your pic. Another strange issue but could it be timing advanced to far, resulting in pre-ignition and leaving that greenish residue? I've understood you can burn a hole thru the piston with advance timing but could it result in a broken rod?

 

[dtanner]

Wayne Shytle

Could you just resleeve that engine???

 

[fcurrier]

...and when you sleeve one, does the sleeve cover that oil port and have to be drilled?

 

[cmiracle]

Hey Guys-
My 1200 has been eating through condensers. (about one per hour) What would be causing this/why? Could my coil bad?