Archive through November 25, 2011

[bchoffman]

Hey Paul, where in Cabo were you? We have a place at pueblo bonito there on the pacific side. To keep this about ih, I did see several ih trucks running around there too. Not much in way of tractors.

 

[pburkle]

Hello everyone ! I have some questions about the red 82 series Cub Cadets that I'm pretty sure I.H. built before the change to CCC in 1981. Let me know if I'm wrong !! ;-O My questions are as follows : 1. How does the 582S differ from the 582 ? 2. Are the 682, 782, 782D and the 982 tractors still identified by the metal I.D. tag on the side of the tractor showing they were made by I.H. ? 3. What engines were used in the 682 and the 782 ? (I read conflicting information where it was stated that they used only a 17 h.p. Kohler in these two tractors ? Then I read where they used only a 19.9 h.p. Onan engine in these two tractors ?) 4. I've heard that the 17 h.p. kohler engine if used in the 682 and the 782 tractors was one of the worst engines that kohler ever made !? I have to ask why was this so !? 5. The 782D was an I.H. made tractor with a Kubota diesel engine correct !? 6. Were there any known problems with the 782D tractor !? 7. Why do you suppose the 982 tractor was never offered in a diesel version !? 8. Then finally, were there any known problems with the 982 tractor !? Ok, that's it !! ;-D I'm still pretty new at this Cub Cadet "hobby" so any feed back and help I can get will be surely appreciated !! ;-D My goal is to get my facts sorted out on this stuff !!

 

[pbell]

Paul Burkle,
IH built the red 82 series from late 1979 until April 1981, when IH ended production of them. The Cub Cadet line was sold to Cub Cadet Corp in June 1981 and everything (parts, tooling, etc) connected to Cub Cadet was moved to the CCC plant in Brownsville, TN. CCC produced thier first tractor in October 1981 (a yellow and white 482)and continued to build the IH designed 82 series in both red, and yellow and white, into
1985. The red tractors were sold by the IH ag dealers, said International on the hood decal, but said Cub Cadet, Cleveland, Ohio on the data plate. The yellow and white versions were sold by Cub Cadet or Lawn Power dealers.
(1) The 582 S (Special) has a 4 speed belt driven Peerless transaxle (shaft drive to a right angle gear boxt and a belt with belt tightening clutch to the Peerless transaxle. A 582 has the same 3 speed transaxle as in the other gear drive Cub Cadets.
(2)The 482/582/582S/682/782/982 all had the metal data plate on the left frame rail that said International Harvester, Chicago, IL (corporate head quarters) on the IH built units, Cub Cadet , Cleveland, OH on the CCC built units.
(3),(4). The 682 and 782's had a KT-17, 17 hp Kohler engine. Initially it was a Series I engine and there were problems due to the lubrication system. During production, the engine was replace by the KT-17 Series II engine that had a full pressure lubrication that solved most of the problems.
(5),(6)The 782D was never built by IH, only CCC. It was built in 1984 and 1985, 3-4 years after IH sold the line. It has a 3 cylinder Kubota diesel that appears to be a good engine, and the tractor is much in demand by collectors. Most engine problems, if any, are now probably more age related than anything else.
(7),(8) You would have to ask CCC why there was no 982 diesel, but I would think there was probably a demand< or lack there of, and cost factor involved. Most 982 problems I am aware of are again, probably age related. They are getting old enough and with enough hours that engine problems are starting to show up, and the Onan (19.9hp) engine and or parts, are getting hard to find and are very pricey. The engine model used is no longer available.

 

[mschutz]

Paul Bell, Nice history lesson in a nut shell.

 

[pburkle]

Wow ! Thanks Paul Bell !! I really appreciate all of your great information !! ;-D You, obviously, know your stuff !! I'm not interested in anything CCC built - junk - only the original traditional I.H. built Cub Cadets !! ;-D Hey, can you tell me if the KT-17 series II engines are still available ? I'm asking because I'm curious ! What engine replaced this ? Thanks again for all of the information and your help !!

Paul Burkle

 

[bcuster]

Whoa Paul!

You do realize that when IH went to CCC, the only difference in the tractors were the paint and badging? CCC made several great tractors through the early years. Although IH didn't make a diesel 982, CCC did so with the 1572 and 1772. They did switch from the cast iron rear to aluminum.

A new short block KT-17 series II can still be had if you got about 3 grand laying around. The most direct replacement for the KT-17 was the Mag 18 (which is the same block).

 

[mhomrighausen]

A little about that 19.9 horsepower Onan engine thing. If I recall around that time there was some kind of "stink" with OHSA on garden tractors that wre 20 hp and over being required to have a rollbar to help in rollover scenarios. A LOT of manufacturers avoided the rollbar by calling the engine a 19.5 or in this case a 19.9 hp engine even though in reality the engine was in fact a 20 horse engine. And I have to agree with Bryan C. about making several good models during the early years. The higher end Cub Cadets are still good quality only they are very pricey and there is an extremely competitive market for that kind of tractor.

I brought the 104 home Friday. Hopefully pictures will follow later today.

 

[crlamb]

We have one of the Kohler K241 engine that uses the K301 block. Is this considered a 10hp or 12hp engine ?... Bore is 3.23, so it is assumed that even though it is a 12hp block, it is a 10hp engine....Am I correct ???

 

[sblunier]

Bryan C. makes an excellent point. Up until about 1990, the CCC tractors were quality machines, about 95% unchanged from the IH 82 series and in some cases very nicely improved.

Ask most if they would prefer to use a 982 or a 2072 (with power steering) and see what answers you get...

Of course specific conversations about these machines belong on another board within this forum, but one shouldn't dismiss them as a whole, just because they are post 1981....just talk about them elsewhere....

 

[gcoleman]

Ran BigFoot hard today, pulling trees around and mowing my hills with six inches of leaves at full throttle, it performed amazingly. Not one unusual tap knock or complaint. Only thing thats getting on my nerves is my flywheel screen has torn the center out of itself and is grinding on my blower housing. anyone else had this issue and are there any quick fixes short of replacing it? I had thought of maybe using large washers to sandwich it in place or something along those lines.

 

[thoffman]

Save yourself the troube in the future and replace it. Can find 'em pretty easy, and cheap.

 

[gcoleman]

Upon further investigation, I think youre right Tom, its pretty well trashed. Im hoping it isnt a royal PIA to get it out now that the engine's mounted in the tractor...

 

[bjohnson]

I bought a 1650 for my father in law. First, the head was cracked. That's an easy fix. Second, the starter is bad. How do you test the starter? I am sure the solenoid works. I jumped it with cables while mounted on the engine and got nothing. I pulled it out and jumped it with cables and got nothing. I pulled the starter apart and all the brushes and wires etc. looked fine. How do I test the windings? There should be ohms across each winding is my guess. Thanks for the help.

 

[pburkle]

I certainly didn't mean to "rattle" anyones chains it's just that in my opinion when I.H. was no longer involved in their power lawn products it was the beginning of the end !! ;-/ The Cub Cadets of today - especially the 1000 series - should not even be legal to sell !! ;-[ I bought a brand new LT1050 Cub Cadet from Tractor Supply in 2008 and I had nothing but trouble with it !! I had 51 hours on it and replaced the deck belts 3 times and the skinny pathetic drive belt twice !! The hour meter went bad - stuck at 51 hours - and the deck spindles were starting to squeal which I was told was not uncommon for those decks !! 51 hours !! ;-O I replaced the mower blades twice too and the last time was because I went over a "high spot" in the ground and it bent one of the blades upward !! The only thing half way decent about that Cub Cadet was the Kohler 25 h.p. engine that started and ran pretty good. The down side was the fact that in tall grass the power was never there !! I had to mow the lawn twice some times to get the job done correctly !! ;-[ So much more can be said here !! Lesson learned !! I fixed what I had to and sold that wreck at a loss and probably have some really bad karma coming my way for selling it even though I told the buyer of my troubles !! I probably should have ran it in the river instead !? Then I remembered my younger days of mowing with a 1650 Cub Cadet out at my uncle's farm which I now own today. I started looking for and found a nice 1650 on Craigslist. Original owner that had rebuilt the engine and had all the maintenance records to it !! ;-D I drove over 500 miles each way to get it !! Since I started mowing with my 1650 there is just NO COMPARISON !! I changed the hydro fluid and filter as recommended by the seller and I remember how impressed I was after seeing the rear end gears etc.. after removing the plate to get the oil drained !! This is the way America used to build things !! ;-/ I trust I am not telling anyone here anything that is not already known !? Then there is the matter of power ! 25 h.p. twin cylinder Kohler vs. a 16 h.p. single cylinder Kohler. I'm certainly no scientist or engineer but the honest to God's truth is the 16 h.p. Kohler has alot more power than the 25 h.p. twin cylinder Kohler !! I still feel kinda funny telling people that but it's the honest to God's truth !! All of my mowing problems have ended since I bought that 1650 Cub Cadet !! ;-D I can mow through tall grass that I never could with the LT1050 !! Ok, I don't mean to write a book here but hopefully I've given some insight as to where I'm coming from !? I must say that I'm grateful to have a nice forum like this with some really nice people who are willing to help and answer some questions for me !! Just goes to show there is still some really decent people in the world today !!!! ;-D "Buy a I.H. built Cub Cadet and it's a decision that you will never regret !!" ;-D Over and out !! ;-D

 

[ajohnston]

I also agree with Paul. The new Cub Cadets are darn bad. Most of our new mowers are plastic this and plastic that. These new mowers are cheaply put together. I just don't think the quality is put in as much as the old ones. Now I know that with everything going on in the money world, there might be trying to not spend as much money. Yet, people buy these things and think they are buying a great machine. I just think that the Cub Cadet line was better when IH owned it.

 

[gcoleman]

Before Charlie warms up the

device, I will say I absolutely love my 149 (even though its technically a 129 with its current engine) those twelve horses run circles around my grandpas 12.5 hp 1330 and my off topic 16 hp Briggs & Scrapiron. Theyre fantastic tractors, I like that once IH sold the line to CCC, they added alot more hydraulic features like duals and p/s, as well as adding the bulletproof kubota engines to more of their models. If this debate is to continue, I suggest we move it to the Sandbox and then everyone can chime in...who knows, might even find a winner

 

[rbeem]

Paul Burkle.

Amen. You've learned the truth Brother.

Those old Kohlers really lay down the power.
You should see the reaction when you tell someone you plowed your garden with a 7hp Cub Cadet!

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[ajohnston]

Let's do it! I don't mean to sound mean but I can go all day and tell give you guys all kinds of reason IH built good machines. I will admit though that the newer ones have newer objects. You also have to think that back when IH were making these, they did not have all the things they would need to add. So I am just saying that they both are working machines.

 

[dross]

Paul, thats a lesson in the difference between horse power and torque.

 

[mschutz]

Whats the problem when a hydo stays engaged. Gentleman jump started a 149 and it took off no stopping it. I haven't looked at it yet but will propbly end up working on it.