Archive through May 24, 2014

[nbextermueller]

So who is taking the bets on Dave S's problem? My money is on a bad block deck. Even if it was machined, doesn't mean it's flat. Same with the head, although I believe he said he used the glass/sand paper trick already.

You don't have an engine work for 30+years than fail to seal after being machined without the machining being the problem. Something is up between those two bolts.

 

[hydroharry]

Nic - I can't take your bet because I'm leaning in your direction. Sounds like he's done everything else correct so what else could it be?

 

[dschwandt]

I just checked with machinist square frame and could not get a .002" feeller under it anywhere on the surface while spanning 3 holes in any direction.
I'm thinking maybe stretched head bolts at this point. nyway, I'm gonna replace 'em all now.

My son is saying I should try a copper head gasket or maybe stacking 2 head gaskets on it. I guess some of the snowmobile guys do that for some reason or another.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Let's see if I remember correctly. ALL torque wrenches are deemed accurate plus or minus 7% when they leave the factory or are re-calculated.. Anyone out there remember ever hearing that before? Plus if you keep re-torquing as more than one small engine shop has told me then you're not leaving any room for expansion and setting yourself up for a blown head gasket.

 

[jmacdonald]

Harry you are 100% correct. Looking at the deck today it's steel, with a cast iron center rotor housing, and two cast end rotor housings.

 

[nbextermueller]

Dave. You will HATE copper. It doesn't seal. And DO NOT stack gaskets. Stacks gaskets would only be used in the case of a warped deck or head anyways (supporting my theory), also doesn't fix the problem. just puts more material to burn through. Secondly, added a gasket will increase your quench/decrease your compression losing a bunch of power.

I'm sure it's flat when the head is off. That's how it was machined. Blocks warp when those bolts are torqued. That's why torque plates are required when your cutting a new hole. Either your head or block is warping after you torque it.

 

[hydroharry]

I guess I'm more stumped than before. Not sure how a head warps under torque.

David S - are you torquing using the sequence shown in the service manual?
Also, I guess there is some chance you might be correct about the old head bolts. I know Kohler recommends new ones each time - or at least some place in the service manual it says "not" to reuse them.

 

[dtanner]

Nic Bextermueller

Why the hate for copper head gaskets ? I had a 73 Norton 850 and it had copper head gasket .One very important thing about the copper gasket in the instructions on reusing them was ; to heat the copper with a torch till the copper changed colour and softened . Then you would get a good seal . if you did not heat up the copper gasket they would leak for sure. I read where they can be heated and reused 4 times with no issues . And I never had a problem when I reused them . btdt

 

[dgregg]

Dave S
Your problem may not be in the head or the block at all. My brother had a 100, now mine that went thru head gaskets if worked hard, like mowing.
The throttle shaft on the carb was worn real bad and under full load it leaked enought to lean out the mixture and overheat the head. The last time it ruined the head. Fixed the carb and the problem has not returned. The cub is at present being used by my Son to mow 1 acre of lawn. Well at least he is trying to keep up.
Not saying this is it but there are other things that can cause the gasket to fail.

 

[dschwandt]

David Gregg: Thanks for that suggestion, I have a newly rebuilt #30 tat I recently put on my 1650 tiller rig, and it has really had a workout here lately with some tough tilling jobs.

I think I will re-install a fresh head, use new bolts and install that carb on this problem engine and see what transpires.

Thanks again guys!
You all have a great Memorial Day weekend and don't forget the men & women of our armed forces that have made our freedom possible.

D-Day.....70 years coming up. Those guys were and are my 1st heroes and have been since I was old enough to understand what that was all about.

 

[jbaker]

Everyone have a safe and happy Memorial Day

 

[thoffman]

Jeff, You can keep the "snow" picture away for now.
I was out your way last night!

 

[nbextermueller]

Don,

Yes, obviously copper gaskets CAN be used successfully, but most people wont do the amount of prep and work it takes to get them to seal meaning they leak ALOT. You can also do 4 thin layers to help get it to conform. But generally it's not recommended for everyday/l

 

[kostendorf]

What does IH mean by fill with grease? How much do I actually put in this gear box?

 

[nbextermueller]

My last post got cut off...

Don,

Yes, obviously copper gaskets CAN be used successfully, but most people wont do the amount of prep and work it takes to get them to seal meaning they leak ALOT. You can also do 4 thin layers to help get it to conform. But generally it's not recommended for everyday/long term use.

Harry,

What happens to thin metal when you over torque a bolt? Why couldn't you do it to thick metal?

 

[hydroharry]

Nic - yes I can understand the "thin" metal warping under torque, but thick metal with 35ft/lb (not tremendous torque) and torqued in the proper sequence (meaning evenly) doesn't seem to me like it would "warp under torque", especially with the close spacing of the head bolts. I just don't see it.

 

[kostendorf]

Never mind, I searched my ? and found the answer. Thought I would repost for everybody.

https://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/106/237645.html#POST187389

 

[hydroharry]

Keith - I don't know if that link provide a complete answer. I believe Charlie recommends a 50/50 ratio of No. 2 Grease and 80W or 90W Gear Oil. Seems like IH initially recommended the Gear Oil and had a fill plug on the earlier 3 tab mount boxes, then changed to the Grease when they went to the 4 tab mounts and deleted the fill plug in the cover.

 

[kostendorf]

Thanks Harry 50/50 sounds good. what I was really worried about is how much to put in to keep from over filling.

 

[jboelens]

What the heck Tom you couldn't stop by and say Howdy to either of us? What gives?

Oh - Happy Memorial Day weekend. Let us not forget why we celebrate this weekend - Those who serve and also those who have served that are no longer with us....