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IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Bill S - I also agree with Dennis' info. One thing Dennis didn't mention is that your 1650 (as well as the 1450 and 1250) were equiped with Kohler engines withOUT the balance gears. Apparently Kohler decided they were a performance issue (which is what Dennis was really getting at - they sometimes come lose inside the block and put a big ole hole in it). Consequently, the Kohler engines without the balance gears would vibrate more than previously and to accomodate that somewhat IH equiped the Quiet Line series (which included your 1650) with ISO-mounts (a sort of rubberized engine mount). If the ISO-mounts fail or are really worn the engine will really shake side to side in the frame. I wouldn't call this vibration but you might think of it as such if using the tractor with this issue.
I happen to think a 1650, 1450, or 1250 are very good tractors if the engines have good ISO-mounts - and also have a cradle modification to the mounting bars - which extends the life of the ISO-mounts and also assists in avoiding shaking.
With regard to the model 149 or 169 you mention, the original engines would have the balance gears and are solid mounted to the tractor frame. Many people prefer this. These engines are known to transmit some vibrations to the operator - and some people seem to experience it more than others. If you have the engines overhauled and use David Kirk's alternative to the balance gears it apparently really helps reduce the vibration - and of course, you don't have to worry about balance gears coming lose inside the block and putting a hole in it.

Overall the 149 is a terrific tractor, and one of the best in the IH CC line up. The standard hydraulic lift is an extremely nice feature and pretty much bullet proof (except for a little roll pin issue). I think it has more then enough power for just about everything you might want to do with it.

I've restored many various models and it's hard to pick out a favorite or claim anyone is really better than others. Frank C points likes the 105 with the 10hp - and he's certainly right. The hydrostatic drive is terrific, the 10hp engine does not have balance gears (it runs really smooth) - and consequently it also doesn't overburden the tractor itself.

Since I moved from the east coast to the left coast I could only really keep one tractor - and that is my 169. I did that because it took me about 10 years to find one, and 7 more to fully restore it (more due to finding the time rather than taking that much time), and also because it's the 2nd lowest production IH CC unit with only 4005 produced in 1974. With all the time and effort I had to put into it - well I just had to keep it (there is a pic in my profile if you click on my blue name).
My very first CC was a 1450 which I had for almost 15 years, and I loved and babied that unit. Yes I replaced the iso-mounts, replaced part of the electric PTO clutch, rebuilt the steering box, and several other minor issues, but it was a great tractor that I put many hours of use into.

If the 149 is sentimental to you as it sounds, then I'd definitely go for it. The 149 is available out there more so than a 169, and the 14hp engine parts are more readily available and cheaper than the 16hp in the 169 .

I don't know anyone that does the restorations of these units as a business. Most of us that have done it know there is no way we could ever recoup a decent price for the time we put into restorations. We're probably lucky to recoup the parts costs unless we happen across a cherry unit not needing much. Good luck with your hunt and come back often with questions. Watch out for the guys that just throw some paint on a unit and call it restored. The hydrostatic units are aged enough that they almost always need the trunion on the pump reworked, the engines should be or should have been overhauled at some point, the PTO clutch overhauled, the steering box overhauled, the Starter/Generator have at least the brushes replaced if it hasn't been rebuilt. This is just my opinion and the problem of course, is that you can't just look at these things and know they've been done. You have to be trusting of the person you're dealing with. There are probably some other things as well but I'd look and ask about these on any unit you look at.
 

hydroharry

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Jul 22, 2007
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Harry Bursell
Did I break this thing?

Bill S - you probably figured out by now I'm a Hydro kinda guy. If you find a nice gear drive unit out there I wouldn't necessarily pass it up. The 1200 is a nice gear drive unit (Quiet Line with 12hp, engine is ISO-mounted). The 128 is a nice gear drive unit (first 12hp in what is called the wide frame series - same frame as 149). The rearend is pretty much bullet proof. They do have clutch assemblies and if it's in good condition I put a life of anywhere from 5-15 years on them, maybe even 20 after a good rebuild/overhaul.

No one brought up the 82 series, which were the last models built by IH before the sale to MTD. If you run across a model from the 82 series (482, 582, 582 Special, 682 or 782) I'd come back here with questions. Most would probably stay away from a 482 or 582 Special - but you can make some changes using parts from other units and basically convert them to the better unit.

(Now, I wonder if the above info satisfied some of the Gear Heads and it un-broke this thing).
 

dcmay

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Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
120
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Dan May
I have been trying to E=Mail C/C Spec but I don't think they are going.I ordered 2 parts and some how the expiration date was incorrect on the 2nd order.Charlie sent me an E=Mail but I don't think you are getting my reply.Can we do this some other way?
Dan
 

rmcshane

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Jan 18, 2010
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587
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Ryan McShane
Finally got to spend some time on my '61 Original, serial number 7420. It's not 100 percent done, still waiting for the air cleaner to dry, and the headlights, plus I need to buy a dash decal. Before and after pics.
288416.jpg

288417.jpg

288418.jpg

288419.jpg

288420.jpg

288421.jpg

288422.jpg
 
J

jclazar

Guest
We're all eyes and ears Hydro Harry! I finally moved up to my first-ever wide frame this spring, which happens to be a 1450, and I really hit the jack-pot! This was coming off an 8 year run on a model 71, so you can imagine my excitement of having a hydro, let alone one in excellent condition and mechanically sound. Still can't sell my re-painted model 72 {restored} short of glory, and I agree with 'ol Frank C about a perfectly running Kohler K241. Mine has more power than I know what to do with!

I can't give enough credit to Charlie, and the others who supply the forum with such great information, that even reading about tractors I don't have is fun and educating!

Nice looking Original Ryan!
 

bschade

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Aug 31, 2010
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Bill Schade
I really appreciate the feedback and advice. From what I've read, it seems like especially with the balancing kit from Kirks that a 14hp and maybe even a 16hp would work for me. The info on the 1650 explains a lot. Harry I looked at the picture in your profile. Your tractor is beautiful and pretty much what I'm going to look for in a 149 or 169. If you would send me directions to your house and a date you won't be home I'll drive up there. If when you get home your tractor looks more like a non running 127, don't give it a second thought. I've located more 169's than 149's so far but am going to post a WTB in the appropriate area to see what board members have first. Everything is a 10 hour drive or more so I'm going to probably buy the most solid tractor I can find between these two models. I will still need to find someone I can trust to do the mechanicals if not already done, and then I can take it apart enough to do the cosmetics. So next question: What options were available on the 149 and 169 tractors? Also what IHCC attachments were available besides front and rear blade, tiller, snow blower, and mower deck? If there were multiple versions of the attachments, how do I tell the difference and which version do I want? Last question for now: will the tiller I have for my 127 work with a 149 or 169?
 

kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
Ryan, very nice!
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Is that a PO mod to the base of the pedestal and to the battery box?
 

jlspicer

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May 15, 2014
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358
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DeWitt, IA
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jlspicer
Ryan,
The O looks great! Kinda like the looks of the white fenders. Different, but the more I look at the pics, the more they're growing on me........Nice!

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joligschlaeger

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May 31, 2007
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65109
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Joe Oligschlaeger
I have a 1200 and would like to know when it was made. Serial number 2050580U654971.
How can a person determine from the serial number? I also have other cadets and would like to know when they were made.
 

rmcshane

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Jan 18, 2010
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587
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Ryan McShane
Thanks guys. Kraig, yes, that is a PO mod to the dash tower. I have no idea why they did that, but they didnt do too bad of a job. Its wider than the sides of the battery box, so I plan to hide my light switch there when I get the lights done.

Josh, Thank you. the reason I painted my fenders white was because I bought the fenders that way. Somebody painted them white along the way and I kind of liked it. I figured everybody that had an Original had one with yellow fenders, so I decided to mix it up some.

I also wanted to add...this tractor was painted with rattle cans
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kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
Ryan, I think that would look great with white headlights... BTW, when I first looked at your photos I thought 1206!
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hydroharry

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Jul 22, 2007
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Harry Bursell
Ryan Mc - ya know, that is a nice looking combination on your "O". There's nothing wrong with rattle cans either - under the right prep and right painting conditions it comes out just as good as a gun. For what it's worth, with my painting technique I have found the CCC Federal Yellow and the Case/IH Iron Guard 935 White povide the best gloss. My entire 169 except the fender assembly, was done that way (I ran short of time to complete the 169 and had access someone with a gun that didn't charge me for it, but even as large as the fender assembly is on a wide frame, it can be done - course you probably have to do about 4 or 5 tractors before you figure out exactly how best to do them).
Ryan - did you ever think about doing the seat in RED?

Bill S - sounds like you got alot of catching up to do on what attachments are out there, what works with what unit, etc. I'm not quite sure where to refer you for info - maybe Kraig can comment on a link location for some reference material. IH did make alot of attachments, and also had approved suppliers as well. The tiller you have for your 127 is likely a Model 1 or 1A, and it would attach to a 149 or 169 (the hydro tractors in this series are commonly refer to as 1x9 to include the 109, 129, 149 and 169, which are wide frame units and your 127 would be a narrow frame). However, to use it you would need a wide frame rear 3-point hitch for the 1x9 tractor. Also, the belt is a different length, and you may need a different mule drive on the front of the 1x9 tractor. It's probably best to ask specific questions on there about something working with a specific tractor.
By the way, I'll be gone Aug 10-14 and probably Sept 6-7, but unfortunately for you the 169 will be with me
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digger

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Digger
Click the link above guys.

We have someone that can use a little help right now, due to some health issues.
Bryan McMeen has had some really severe health issues this year and needs our assistance.
We're looking for all of you good people out there to step up and give a little, give a lot, or just give anything to help a fellow human being out in a time of need.

I have faith in you folks, so DON'T let me down!!!!

100% of all donations will be going to Bryan, minus freakin Paypal fee's, Grrrrrr
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rmcshane

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Ryan McShane
Kraig- you read my mind! I kinda had the idea of styling it like a 1206. And yes, the headlights will be white.

Thank you Harry and Lew.
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kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
Ryan, here's a photo from the archives of an Original with white headlights, kind of a preview for you.

288450.jpg
 

rmcshane

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Ryan McShane
Kraig-It looks good. I figure I might as well go out of the norm with it, since they made so many.
 
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