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Archive through July 23, 2012
- Thread starter jsalatino
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Thanks for the thoughts on the gasket, guys, I'll probably use the neoprene for the shifter gasket since I'll have that off now and again, and use the normal paper gasket material for the rear cover.
Jonathan S.-
For a 10 hp engine you'll be fine with either the cultivator spring or the red spring. Use the locking collar so you can adjust the amount of compression of the spring; for 10 hp you certainly don't need it compressed the full inch...3/4" will probably do, and will result in about 650# applied to the pressure plates, about twice what the stock spring applies, yet still not a large increase in force at the pedal. The OEM friction disc is fine, as is a cold-rolled steel driveshaft. No need for anything fancy, but 4140 steel makes pretty nice driveshafts if you can find some inexpensively.
Jonathan S.-
For a 10 hp engine you'll be fine with either the cultivator spring or the red spring. Use the locking collar so you can adjust the amount of compression of the spring; for 10 hp you certainly don't need it compressed the full inch...3/4" will probably do, and will result in about 650# applied to the pressure plates, about twice what the stock spring applies, yet still not a large increase in force at the pedal. The OEM friction disc is fine, as is a cold-rolled steel driveshaft. No need for anything fancy, but 4140 steel makes pretty nice driveshafts if you can find some inexpensively.
matt...one of the reasons I was thinking about the stainless is dont have to prime & paint it. If I was to use a driveshaft outta 4140 steel and left it unpainted would it rust? I really dont know much about it. Having the same trouble trying to decide if I want to use for hardware. I've spent probably way to much time and effort cleaning,stripping,swapping out bolts from 1 cub to another so every bolt on it would look almost new. Even the ones you dont see. You can read the "IH" on every one and there not pitted & good threads. But I hate paintin bolts.No matter what you do, your not ever gonna keep them from gettin chipped or messed up. I've tried every wich way you can think of as far as painting bolts. lol Any advise on that , thought about having them zinc plated if I knew they would come out good.I like the looks of stainless steel but I've heard its not as strong as a grade 5. IDK , maybe I'm puttin to much though into it or being to picky.
Jonathan S.
The time between your post was less than 2 hours and your complaining!
The time between your post was less than 2 hours and your complaining!
Jonathan S.
Which post? Where and when. We coulda missed it ya know.
Which post? Where and when. We coulda missed it ya know.
rbedell
Well-known member
Norm B:
I stand corrected. I did NOT realize, that MTD changed the Part Numbers along with the Design of the ISO Rail. The page in TC-157 doesn't clearly indicate this.
Richard, thanks for clarifying the differences in the design of the rails and the respective snubbers for each.
Again, I apologize for any confusion and wrong assumptions on my part.
Learned something today.
I stand corrected. I did NOT realize, that MTD changed the Part Numbers along with the Design of the ISO Rail. The page in TC-157 doesn't clearly indicate this.
Richard, thanks for clarifying the differences in the design of the rails and the respective snubbers for each.
Again, I apologize for any confusion and wrong assumptions on my part.
Learned something today.
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Jonathan-
Priming and painting the driveshaft takes about 2% of the total time of overhauling the clutch. You would save perhaps 5 minutes by not painting it...
Priming and painting the driveshaft takes about 2% of the total time of overhauling the clutch. You would save perhaps 5 minutes by not painting it...
Jonathan S. - NO WAY would I make a CC driveshaft out of SS. For one thing it'd be really expensive, another thing is you can't buy decent SS except at specialty steel outlets for inflated prices. And SS is prone to galling. Any place SS rubs against another metal it tears it up.
The proper 4140 alloy steel is 4140 pre-hardened. Normally it's hardened to around 30 Rockwell on the C scale, about the limit of machinability with normal common tools. If you get 4140 annealed, it's not much better than plain old 1018 cold rolled which was what IH used.
Another great driveshaft material is Stress-Proof steel, which is a registered trade mark of LaSalle Steel, which is 1144 severely cold drawn steel. Machines very nice, every company that makes cold drawn steel makes a stress-proof equivalent. You compare the mechanical & physical properties of 4140 pre-hard & Stress-Proof and they almost identical.
I would not get too far away from stock on the clutch on your 100. With OEM components in good shape your clutch can transmit more HP/Torque than you have traction to use.
I put an aftermarket clutch in my #72 when I installed a hot-rodded K321 several years ago. 4140 hardened drive shaft, billet clutch plates, red spring, extended clutch release lever. It was a PITA to run. Finally after 150 hours the throw-out bearing destroyed itself from constant running under way too much pressure and I went back to OEM parts. I had the old clutch slip a few times before I installed the K321 when I was running a K241, plowing in 2nd gear about 8-9 inches deep. Took excellent traction & lots of added weight to get traction too. And that was using 35 yr old clutch plates & pressure spring.
With the new billet plates, OEM spring I have NO clutch slippage with a strong 14 HP engine.
Don't over-think this clutch. The stock parts work really good and every time you shift you'll appreciate it.
The proper 4140 alloy steel is 4140 pre-hardened. Normally it's hardened to around 30 Rockwell on the C scale, about the limit of machinability with normal common tools. If you get 4140 annealed, it's not much better than plain old 1018 cold rolled which was what IH used.
Another great driveshaft material is Stress-Proof steel, which is a registered trade mark of LaSalle Steel, which is 1144 severely cold drawn steel. Machines very nice, every company that makes cold drawn steel makes a stress-proof equivalent. You compare the mechanical & physical properties of 4140 pre-hard & Stress-Proof and they almost identical.
I would not get too far away from stock on the clutch on your 100. With OEM components in good shape your clutch can transmit more HP/Torque than you have traction to use.
I put an aftermarket clutch in my #72 when I installed a hot-rodded K321 several years ago. 4140 hardened drive shaft, billet clutch plates, red spring, extended clutch release lever. It was a PITA to run. Finally after 150 hours the throw-out bearing destroyed itself from constant running under way too much pressure and I went back to OEM parts. I had the old clutch slip a few times before I installed the K321 when I was running a K241, plowing in 2nd gear about 8-9 inches deep. Took excellent traction & lots of added weight to get traction too. And that was using 35 yr old clutch plates & pressure spring.
With the new billet plates, OEM spring I have NO clutch slippage with a strong 14 HP engine.
Don't over-think this clutch. The stock parts work really good and every time you shift you'll appreciate it.
hydroharry
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,377
- displayname
- Harry Bursell
Sorry Guys I guess I stand corrected as well on the Snubbers. Now, are both styles of snubbers still available or do you have to make do for one style? (Charlie only seems to have one style).
matt...I KNow it wouldnt take no time to paint the drivshaft. I meant if I can put one on ,somthing like ss that you can put right on, and not have to worry about it lookin like crap after a few months. I doesnt bother me to paint anything.
Dennis... I havent made my mind up yet and oredered any just yet. Thats why I was asking around . So your sayin with a heavier / stiffer spring I might have to had weight for my traction? If so whys that? MAybe I misread somthing. lol , I'm pretty sure I'm gonna order one from Brian Millers website. And also have him turn my clutch plates. His prices seem pretty fair,I noticed they did go up just a lil bit on a few thngs and some went down.
Jonathan, I believe what Denny was saying is that you will run out of traction way before the clutch would ever slip. In other words, the available traction is the "weak point" in the drive system, not the clutch and to "beef up" the traction requires more weight.
Dave, good point! Available HP is the other weak link...
Earlier this spring my refurbished Original with a rebuilt 7hp, stock clutch, ag tires and 2 sets of 26lbs weights was able to pull out 3" diameter trees!
Near as I could tell the clutch never slipped, I did spin the tires occasionally and 7hp was barely enough power.
Earlier this spring my refurbished Original with a rebuilt 7hp, stock clutch, ag tires and 2 sets of 26lbs weights was able to pull out 3" diameter trees!
JONATHAN - If it was my money, I'd get the OEM clutch parts from the sponsors here. If you want better than OEM parts I'd get them from Midwest Super Cub.
I've spent money with Miller, found him hard to do business with, and the quality of his work was pretty poor.
And KRAIG is correct. Under a hard pull you either slip the drive tires or the clutch slips. With a stock 10 HP Kohler you will spin the tires LONG before the clutch slips. That little 4-1/2" dry type clutch is really stout stock when the parts are in good shape.
KRAIG - You pulled 3" dia trees with K-f-K? I pulled some trees from Dad's sheep pasture years ago with my Super H. They were 3-4 inch dia trunks, probably 6 to 10 ft tall. I had to dig holes with both rear tires, back up out of the holes, shorten the chain, then pull down INTO the holes to get the trees pulled. I wanted to get as many of the roots as I could. I had some little evergreen bushes here that I had BOTH the Super H & M tied onto and couldn't budge.
I've spent money with Miller, found him hard to do business with, and the quality of his work was pretty poor.
And KRAIG is correct. Under a hard pull you either slip the drive tires or the clutch slips. With a stock 10 HP Kohler you will spin the tires LONG before the clutch slips. That little 4-1/2" dry type clutch is really stout stock when the parts are in good shape.
KRAIG - You pulled 3" dia trees with K-f-K? I pulled some trees from Dad's sheep pasture years ago with my Super H. They were 3-4 inch dia trunks, probably 6 to 10 ft tall. I had to dig holes with both rear tires, back up out of the holes, shorten the chain, then pull down INTO the holes to get the trees pulled. I wanted to get as many of the roots as I could. I had some little evergreen bushes here that I had BOTH the Super H & M tied onto and couldn't budge.
Denny, yep! I couldn't believe it. I should point out that they were growing pretty thick and the roots were not all that deep. Most were in the 1" diameter range but there were a couple that were 3". I likely loosened the soil by pulling the 1" trees that were around them first. I did give them a bit of a jerk so momentum was involved but regardless it DID pull out 3" trees.
kraig.... oh ok gotcha, yeah i misread somthng somwhere. After thinkin about it I think I'm gonna go with the stres proof steel for the drivshaft. well guys thanks for all of the advise . Think I'm gonna head out in the garage for a bit
