I am currently trying to rebuild the motor in my 169 cub cadet but the block is worn too badly for even a .30 over piston. Would yall recommend trying to get it bored out more and sleeved or just find another block. The block is a 13 fin block. Also would yall recommend putting the balance gears back in the engine?
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Archive through July 01, 2011
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hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
I don't know if this is quite within the Forum rules so it may get poofed, but in the Spirit of the 4th of July season I wanted you guys in the New England area to know there is a Spirit of 76 posted in the Rhode Island Craig's List. Any real die-hard volume collector just has to have one of these in his coral.
Brandon - if it's a 13 fin it is my understanding that block can be bored out to 4 inches, at least some of the puller guys have done that. With that in mind I'd think boring and sleeving could be done as well. Hope someone that has actually done it posts a response so we all know for certain.
On your balance gears question, I put them back in my 13 fin 10 or 11 years ago, but if I was rebuilding it now I'd definitely go with Dave Kirk's substitute. He's one of the sponsors listed at the top of the page in the heading (Kirk Engines, Inc). Have a look at his page and his Crankshaft Balance Plate.
Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die
Brandon - if it's a 13 fin it is my understanding that block can be bored out to 4 inches, at least some of the puller guys have done that. With that in mind I'd think boring and sleeving could be done as well. Hope someone that has actually done it posts a response so we all know for certain.
On your balance gears question, I put them back in my 13 fin 10 or 11 years ago, but if I was rebuilding it now I'd definitely go with Dave Kirk's substitute. He's one of the sponsors listed at the top of the page in the heading (Kirk Engines, Inc). Have a look at his page and his Crankshaft Balance Plate.
Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die
Harry,
No link to it so your safe!
Almost.
No link to it so your safe!
Almost.
Hi Folks - hope you're all looking forward to a good Independence Day weekend! The topic is a Model 107. In case you have your service manual handy, there's a wiring diagram on page 1-29. It shows a "neutral starting switch" with an orange wire and an orange-black wire. Anybody know where that switch is located? I thought it might be on the transmission, but I can't find it there. I think that guy is my problem...
jchamberlin
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Andrew: Read Dennis Frisk's post carefully and ignore mine; I was in error,
The 147 is a narrow frame and uses a different mule drive. The next step is identifying the model of the attachments on the 147 and figuring out which mule drives to use and how to set it up. Unless someone is able to vouch for mating the particular attachments available with the 147 with the 149 and is able to tell you how the mule drive was set up to do it, I would stay away. It sounds to me as if you might be buying yourself a lot of trouble.
As far as the engines go, you might be able to use the two engines to make one, but you need to assess their mechanical condition. The easiest way to do that is to pull the head off of each, check the smoothness of the bore, the valve lift, and general condition.
Matt: I talked with Roy Najecki last night, he told me that he too wound up looking for used aluminum-bodied spindles per your advice. Since the dealer can no longer source the ST745 "water pump bearings" from Cub Cadet, but is pointed toward the aluminum-bodied unit as a substitute / replacement, I wound up buying the new-style assembly with the old-style replaceable bearings.
Even though they set me back a pretty penny (a little less than what Dennis spent), I felt like I would be going backwards by buying new steel cups for a semi-good "water pump" bearing which, when it fails in a few years, would land me right back where I am now. If I were handy with a welder and had access to machine tools, I might fool around with trying to repair the cups because that is where the biggest part of the problem lies.
Every other deck I've repaired cost me $200 tops for all new spindles, belts, and blades; the Cub Cadet parts START at almost $200 per spindle.
They had better last a good, long time . . .
The 147 is a narrow frame and uses a different mule drive. The next step is identifying the model of the attachments on the 147 and figuring out which mule drives to use and how to set it up. Unless someone is able to vouch for mating the particular attachments available with the 147 with the 149 and is able to tell you how the mule drive was set up to do it, I would stay away. It sounds to me as if you might be buying yourself a lot of trouble.
As far as the engines go, you might be able to use the two engines to make one, but you need to assess their mechanical condition. The easiest way to do that is to pull the head off of each, check the smoothness of the bore, the valve lift, and general condition.
Matt: I talked with Roy Najecki last night, he told me that he too wound up looking for used aluminum-bodied spindles per your advice. Since the dealer can no longer source the ST745 "water pump bearings" from Cub Cadet, but is pointed toward the aluminum-bodied unit as a substitute / replacement, I wound up buying the new-style assembly with the old-style replaceable bearings.
Even though they set me back a pretty penny (a little less than what Dennis spent), I felt like I would be going backwards by buying new steel cups for a semi-good "water pump" bearing which, when it fails in a few years, would land me right back where I am now. If I were handy with a welder and had access to machine tools, I might fool around with trying to repair the cups because that is where the biggest part of the problem lies.
Every other deck I've repaired cost me $200 tops for all new spindles, belts, and blades; the Cub Cadet parts START at almost $200 per spindle.
They had better last a good, long time . . .
jchamberlin
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Alan: It is actuated by the rod to which the brake pedal is attached. I don't have experience with the 107, but on every other Cub I've seen there is a triangular piece of spring steel bent like a "J" --the bottom of the "J" wraps around the brake rod and is kept from sliding back-and-forth on the rod by one of the ubiquitous roll-pins; while the top of the "J" contacts a momentary push-button switch mounted on a special tab. The welded tab is almost directly below the right side of the steering tower.
I imagine on a 107 you're going to have to access it from beneath the tractor. Its kind of a pain to get to even on the newer models. Usually, what happens is the spring steel actuator breaks at the brake rod because of stress and rust, etc.
Good luck, you'll find it.
I imagine on a 107 you're going to have to access it from beneath the tractor. Its kind of a pain to get to even on the newer models. Usually, what happens is the spring steel actuator breaks at the brake rod because of stress and rust, etc.
Good luck, you'll find it.
Alan, the switch is located adjacent to the steering gear box on a 107. It is actuated as Jeremiah described. Here's a photo of a 127 (12hp version of the 107) from the bottom side. I've indicated where the switch is located.
Here's a photo of the piece of spring steel bent like a "J" as Jeremiah called it. Please note that this part is missing in the above photo of the switch.
Here's where the "J" part is located on a 1x5 series tractor, which would be the same in this regard as on your 107. Photos taken looking into the frame on the right side, through the slot for the manual lift arm.
Here's a photo of the piece of spring steel bent like a "J" as Jeremiah called it. Please note that this part is missing in the above photo of the switch.
Here's where the "J" part is located on a 1x5 series tractor, which would be the same in this regard as on your 107. Photos taken looking into the frame on the right side, through the slot for the manual lift arm.
Jeremiah,
You just answered another question there, too. The brake pedal won't return to the "up" position, as if a spring were shot. You identified the source of that. I took the seat/fender off, and you're right - I can't access it there. I suspect if I take the mower off and crawl underneath... question is if I can replace that switch or just bypass it.
You just answered another question there, too. The brake pedal won't return to the "up" position, as if a spring were shot. You identified the source of that. I took the seat/fender off, and you're right - I can't access it there. I suspect if I take the mower off and crawl underneath... question is if I can replace that switch or just bypass it.
Alan, the brake pedal return spring is near the center of the top photo in my post below.
JEREMIAH - I thought the same thing, the welder would be the right tool to fix those worn housings, but a big bench vice and a big hammer to make them not round is the key.
I tried using brass shim stock to take up the wear inside the housings. Worked fine for a couple hours. I haven't tried my repaired old housing yet. But I think it'll work O-K.
The ST-745 bearings are still available. I bet the sponsors have them.
I tried using brass shim stock to take up the wear inside the housings. Worked fine for a couple hours. I haven't tried my repaired old housing yet. But I think it'll work O-K.
The ST-745 bearings are still available. I bet the sponsors have them.
jchamberlin
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Dennis: Yes, the ST745 bearing is available at the dealer, but he doesn't get it from Cub Cadet, he sources it directly from the bearing manufacturer.
One of the "features" of the new design is that the height of the blade becomes adjustable. At first I thought, "Oh no, not something else to adjust." But when you think about it, it is probably not a bad way to go. It give you another tool to level your deck.
Plus, if you and I were successful returning our old spindles to service, who's to say the height wouldn't be just a tad off. Then you would have to break out the shim stock and washers to raise/lower (?) the height of your freshly repaired spindle.
I think we're both better off running the replaceable bearing spindles in the aluminum housing, or at least that is how MTD/Cub Cadet feels.
One of the "features" of the new design is that the height of the blade becomes adjustable. At first I thought, "Oh no, not something else to adjust." But when you think about it, it is probably not a bad way to go. It give you another tool to level your deck.
Plus, if you and I were successful returning our old spindles to service, who's to say the height wouldn't be just a tad off. Then you would have to break out the shim stock and washers to raise/lower (?) the height of your freshly repaired spindle.
I think we're both better off running the replaceable bearing spindles in the aluminum housing, or at least that is how MTD/Cub Cadet feels.
Jeremiah - I beg to differ with ya on that one.
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
I think we're both better off running the replaceable bearing spindles in the aluminum housing, or at least that is how MTD/Cub Cadet feels.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>I think MTD would say ,"Hey Jeremiah you'd be better off buying a NEW machine."
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
I think we're both better off running the replaceable bearing spindles in the aluminum housing, or at least that is how MTD/Cub Cadet feels.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>I think MTD would say ,"Hey Jeremiah you'd be better off buying a NEW machine."
Did someone say ST745?
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And now that Charlies state govt. has collapsed, it means he doesn't have to charge sales tax! Everybody, now is a time to save money on your purchases.
<font size="-2">(Legal disclaimer---Dont believe a word I just said about taxes.)</font>
<font size="-2">(Legal disclaimer---Dont believe a word I just said about taxes.)</font>
Fellas,
All this talk about decks and their variations got me to thinking about mine. I have five decks. They are are all 42" 3-spindle rotary mower decks. However, some have an ID tag of: 42U1111, 42U1113, 42U1116 and two decks are without any evidence of ever having an ID tag. The only obvious differences between the decks I can see are the two decks without tags are equipped with half-moon/flat runners and no back gage wheels; whereas the three ID-tagged decks are equipped with round runners and do have rear gage wheels. They appear to all have the same ?? spindles....
Does the CC/IH literature give these different tagged and non-tagged decks specific style or type names, i.e., Style 1, Type A, etc.?
If so, where can I find the information differentiating these decks?
Thanks in Advance for the help, Guys!
Ryan
All this talk about decks and their variations got me to thinking about mine. I have five decks. They are are all 42" 3-spindle rotary mower decks. However, some have an ID tag of: 42U1111, 42U1113, 42U1116 and two decks are without any evidence of ever having an ID tag. The only obvious differences between the decks I can see are the two decks without tags are equipped with half-moon/flat runners and no back gage wheels; whereas the three ID-tagged decks are equipped with round runners and do have rear gage wheels. They appear to all have the same ?? spindles....
Does the CC/IH literature give these different tagged and non-tagged decks specific style or type names, i.e., Style 1, Type A, etc.?
If so, where can I find the information differentiating these decks?
Thanks in Advance for the help, Guys!
Ryan
JEREMIAH - I've ALWAYS shimmed my deck spindles with washers between the blades & the spindles. I know we discussed here a couple years ago about using the "friction washers" the parts manual shows and some people still use them. But I've never had problems with blades coming loose or slipping on any IH deck and haven't used a friction washer, haven't even SEEN a friction washer in over thirty years.
I did a little "OOPS" last fall on my 38" deck for my 72. I stripped the threads on the center spindle. I contemplated buying a replacement shaft until I priced it on the parts look-up. I have the old 38" deck from the CC70 that Dad bought as "new old stock" back around 1980 to replace the worn-out 38" cast iron end deck. So I grabbed it and was shocked to see it had the later style spindles with the ST745 bearings. So now my good deck has one waterpump bearing spindle and two with Timpken tapered roller bearings. That center spindle gets one heavy flat washer between the spindle & blade the outside spindles don't need and the blades line up withing 1/16th inch tip-to-tip when I install the blades.
Suggestion for all, use anti-sieze on spindle threads, and I use a 1/2" impact to remove/install the hex nuts but make sure you start the nuts a full turn or two before tightening them, you don't want to strip the threads!
I actually like the ST745 bearings, I got my 44A deck with my old 129 very well used then used it another 15 years as my main mower and NEVER had any bearing issues with it. And for whatever reason, either the ST745 bearings, or the speed ratios between the center & outer spindles, it pulled much easier than any 38" deck I've ever had.
Wish I had THAT 44A deck under my CC72 now. I tried getting it to fit one afternoon but couldn't get the right combination of mule drive & deck to make it fit correctly.
I did a little "OOPS" last fall on my 38" deck for my 72. I stripped the threads on the center spindle. I contemplated buying a replacement shaft until I priced it on the parts look-up. I have the old 38" deck from the CC70 that Dad bought as "new old stock" back around 1980 to replace the worn-out 38" cast iron end deck. So I grabbed it and was shocked to see it had the later style spindles with the ST745 bearings. So now my good deck has one waterpump bearing spindle and two with Timpken tapered roller bearings. That center spindle gets one heavy flat washer between the spindle & blade the outside spindles don't need and the blades line up withing 1/16th inch tip-to-tip when I install the blades.
Suggestion for all, use anti-sieze on spindle threads, and I use a 1/2" impact to remove/install the hex nuts but make sure you start the nuts a full turn or two before tightening them, you don't want to strip the threads!
I actually like the ST745 bearings, I got my 44A deck with my old 129 very well used then used it another 15 years as my main mower and NEVER had any bearing issues with it. And for whatever reason, either the ST745 bearings, or the speed ratios between the center & outer spindles, it pulled much easier than any 38" deck I've ever had.
Wish I had THAT 44A deck under my CC72 now. I tried getting it to fit one afternoon but couldn't get the right combination of mule drive & deck to make it fit correctly.
jchamberlin
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Dennis: if by "ST745" bearing you mean the so-called "water pump style," I agree, I like them too. The problem is that the stamped-steel housing just isn't strong enough to hold them firmly. A sturdy cast piece with some kind of shim/adjustment feature would be perfect.
Ryan: I noticed on Parts Lookup for the 44" deck (I think), there was a note, "except for U1115." So there are variations between models, but it all seems very sporadic. The best method seems to be examining your deck, as you did, and knowing what you're looking at when you do (unlike myself or my dealer's counter person).
From what I can tell, if you see a stamped-steel tapered "cone" protruding from the bottom of the deck, you have the water-pump style, one-piece, "throw-away" type bearings, regardless of how the pulley is fitted to the top. The units with replacable bearings either have the aluminum housing beneath the deck or a straight-sided tool-steel cylinder. Others may be able to clarify my assessment.
Ryan: I noticed on Parts Lookup for the 44" deck (I think), there was a note, "except for U1115." So there are variations between models, but it all seems very sporadic. The best method seems to be examining your deck, as you did, and knowing what you're looking at when you do (unlike myself or my dealer's counter person).
From what I can tell, if you see a stamped-steel tapered "cone" protruding from the bottom of the deck, you have the water-pump style, one-piece, "throw-away" type bearings, regardless of how the pulley is fitted to the top. The units with replacable bearings either have the aluminum housing beneath the deck or a straight-sided tool-steel cylinder. Others may be able to clarify my assessment.
