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Archive through January 18, 2011
- Thread starter thoffman
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
mgonitzke
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Tristan-
I'd put in a stronger clutch spring if you go for more than 12 hp. 16 hp will slip a stock clutch during a hard pull.
I'd put in a stronger clutch spring if you go for more than 12 hp. 16 hp will slip a stock clutch during a hard pull.
Lonny, the sound of your hydralic problem could be the rod is bent or possibly the piston came loose from the rod. I've seen lots of cylider do that after a hard hit,the sudden impact is so quick that the relief valve does'nt have time to open and damages the cylinder. The good news is that some of the cylinders I've seen this happen to cost alot (15000). I work on hydralics alot and this is only my idea, sorry
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Lonnie,
You likely blew out the seal on the rod that seperates the extend/retract sides of the piston. When the valve pumps oil into the piston to close it, the oil bypasses the internal seal and fills the other side too. Since there is more surface area on the extend side of the piston then on the retract side, it eventually extends the cylinder all the way out.
When the cylinder is about 1/2 extended, and the valve in the N position, can the blade be rocked back and forth with a "squishy" feel to the hyd cylinder resistance???? This would indicate oil moving from side to side within the cylinder across the blown seal.
Find a new cylinder, or have a shop turn the end off at the weld, replace the seals and carefully weld it back up.
You likely blew out the seal on the rod that seperates the extend/retract sides of the piston. When the valve pumps oil into the piston to close it, the oil bypasses the internal seal and fills the other side too. Since there is more surface area on the extend side of the piston then on the retract side, it eventually extends the cylinder all the way out.
When the cylinder is about 1/2 extended, and the valve in the N position, can the blade be rocked back and forth with a "squishy" feel to the hyd cylinder resistance???? This would indicate oil moving from side to side within the cylinder across the blown seal.
Find a new cylinder, or have a shop turn the end off at the weld, replace the seals and carefully weld it back up.
I did find this and it explains what might have happened.
The piston divides the barrel body into two parts; the rod end which is the side from where piston enters the barrel body and the other side which is capped called the cap end. The piston is driven back and forth by the hydraulic fluid, which is mostly oil, introduced by the hydraulic pump. The piston has sliding rings and seals which prevent the leakage of fluid from one part of the piston compartment to the other part. The piston is connected with appropriate mounting arrangement. It conveys piston motion to appropriate moving part of the machine which carries the load.
So I would say the piston is damage in one direction allowing the fluid to bleed off and not giving the movement it was designed to do.
my .02
The piston divides the barrel body into two parts; the rod end which is the side from where piston enters the barrel body and the other side which is capped called the cap end. The piston is driven back and forth by the hydraulic fluid, which is mostly oil, introduced by the hydraulic pump. The piston has sliding rings and seals which prevent the leakage of fluid from one part of the piston compartment to the other part. The piston is connected with appropriate mounting arrangement. It conveys piston motion to appropriate moving part of the machine which carries the load.
So I would say the piston is damage in one direction allowing the fluid to bleed off and not giving the movement it was designed to do.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Ricks point about knocking the piston end off of the rod is a more likely possibility than the seal, I hadn't though of that possibility and it would explain the "always extends" more thoroughly.
Pull the pin the holds the rod end to the blade and see if you can pull the rod all the way out...
BTW, when a cylinder is static and the valve is in N, there is no relief valve in play....just locked in oil on both sides of the cylinder piston, that's it. The relief valve only comes into play on the cylinder side when the valve is open and moving the cylinder, dumping off pressure when the pump "deadheads" against a fully extended or retracted piston. When in neutral (on an open center system) the oil is just circulating from tank to pump to valve, to tank, only making whatever pressure it takes for the pump to shove it's rated volume of oil through the line restrictions and the relief valve is not in service (closed).
Pull the pin the holds the rod end to the blade and see if you can pull the rod all the way out...
BTW, when a cylinder is static and the valve is in N, there is no relief valve in play....just locked in oil on both sides of the cylinder piston, that's it. The relief valve only comes into play on the cylinder side when the valve is open and moving the cylinder, dumping off pressure when the pump "deadheads" against a fully extended or retracted piston. When in neutral (on an open center system) the oil is just circulating from tank to pump to valve, to tank, only making whatever pressure it takes for the pump to shove it's rated volume of oil through the line restrictions and the relief valve is not in service (closed).
fcurrier
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- Frank A. Currier(Northern Maine)
This sucks! You guys are getting technical and I'm trying to figure out why Tristan's using a 1000 instead of a 129 to haul/twitch firewood. No GD's here (except for the 1200 that I'm parting).
tgeirnaeirt
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- Terry Geirnaeirt
Hydro question!
Was out last week pushing snow with my 782 and had no problems with the hydro. I went out the next morning to clean up the little snow we had gotten overnight. My hydro lever had a bunch of slack in it and would move the tractor forward but only after I fully extended the lever. It hardly moved when I put it in reverse. I have checked for leaks but seem not to have found any. But my hytran was about 20-25ounces low, so addded fluid and seemed to get a bit more responsive in both directions but still not to what it was originally. I was able to finish pushing snow. Today I went out and it will not move into forward or reverse no matter how far I move hydro lever. Should I start by draining fluid and replacing filter first and see what happens?? Have never had an issue with hydro but have never worked on or had to trouble shoot one either. Any suggestions would be appreciated to get me started looking in the right direction. Thanks and I love this site!!
Was out last week pushing snow with my 782 and had no problems with the hydro. I went out the next morning to clean up the little snow we had gotten overnight. My hydro lever had a bunch of slack in it and would move the tractor forward but only after I fully extended the lever. It hardly moved when I put it in reverse. I have checked for leaks but seem not to have found any. But my hytran was about 20-25ounces low, so addded fluid and seemed to get a bit more responsive in both directions but still not to what it was originally. I was able to finish pushing snow. Today I went out and it will not move into forward or reverse no matter how far I move hydro lever. Should I start by draining fluid and replacing filter first and see what happens?? Have never had an issue with hydro but have never worked on or had to trouble shoot one either. Any suggestions would be appreciated to get me started looking in the right direction. Thanks and I love this site!!
sblunier
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Terry G.
Sounds like you may have a mechanical linkage problem either at the centering spring on the trunion or near the neutral return "Y". I'd pull the frame cover and check for obvious issues, then if nothing is apparent to you snap some pics and post them here.
Does the hyd. lift function still work??? If so, you are moving oil through the filter and into the hydro.
Hydros very seldom ever internally break and most problems can be traced to linkages and mechanical adjustments, with an occasional faulty fwd/rev check valve.
Sounds like you may have a mechanical linkage problem either at the centering spring on the trunion or near the neutral return "Y". I'd pull the frame cover and check for obvious issues, then if nothing is apparent to you snap some pics and post them here.
Does the hyd. lift function still work??? If so, you are moving oil through the filter and into the hydro.
Hydros very seldom ever internally break and most problems can be traced to linkages and mechanical adjustments, with an occasional faulty fwd/rev check valve.
I am unable to move the cylinder rod by hand, but when I use the tractor to push the cylinder rod back in, I can than move the rod freely out and in.
Little to no resistance.
But If I use the hydraulics to push the rod all the way out, than I can not push the rod back in as there is more restance than I can overcome.
I belive I may have either blown the internal seal or busted the plate the off the bottom of the rod.
Have a new replacement cylinder on order from local cub dealer, spendy little cylinder. Total cost will be over $300 by time shipping and tax is added.
OUCH!!!
Little to no resistance.
But If I use the hydraulics to push the rod all the way out, than I can not push the rod back in as there is more restance than I can overcome.
I belive I may have either blown the internal seal or busted the plate the off the bottom of the rod.
Have a new replacement cylinder on order from local cub dealer, spendy little cylinder. Total cost will be over $300 by time shipping and tax is added.
OUCH!!!
tgeirnaeirt
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- Terry Geirnaeirt
Stev,
Did that and did not notice any linkage issues. I did notice a bit of oil ontop of both check valves. One thing I did notice the last couple of times I pushed snow is that the hydro lift did not seem to work very well especially when i first started pushing snow. As I went along it got better but did not seem like it had its normal travel.
Did that and did not notice any linkage issues. I did notice a bit of oil ontop of both check valves. One thing I did notice the last couple of times I pushed snow is that the hydro lift did not seem to work very well especially when i first started pushing snow. As I went along it got better but did not seem like it had its normal travel.
Tom, thats what I wanted to hear. Hopefully I'll have a '1400' or '1600' shortly then!
Matt, I need to do an overhaul to the clutch anyway. I debated doing the MWSC setup but then folks say thats too much for a daily worker. I dont know of any middle ground between stock and a puller, do you have suggestion? I routinely pull my 6x10 (1400#empty) and with a pile of firewood on it I have to take the smallish hill around the house in 1st gear, she will slip a little in 2nd as it is, but fine in 2nd on the flats.
Frank - many reasons I am using the 1000 over the 129. But mainly the 129 isnt running good-has some issues that needs adressed (motor, front axle, rear end frame mount, etc), the hydro is all over the place (even when the motor was fine), and its setup for the tiller with the rear gearbox, and havent been able to get headlights for it yet (the 1000 now has lights).
I like the 1000 so much better though I got a creeper for it and may even setup the tiller on it in the spring to see how it does with the #2. Extra HP would help there too, no doubt.
I plan on a major overhaul of the 129 and to outfit it with hydro lift, but thats probably a year or two away atleast.
Yeah I am a GD person... just personal preference. Look back yesterday at my pics with my new F350 - I had to custom order that from the factory last year to get a 6 speed manual. The last auto I owned is a '78 Bronco lol. Except for the wifes Lexus RX300 - that has a bunch of problems with that gosh darn automatic.
Matt, I need to do an overhaul to the clutch anyway. I debated doing the MWSC setup but then folks say thats too much for a daily worker. I dont know of any middle ground between stock and a puller, do you have suggestion? I routinely pull my 6x10 (1400#empty) and with a pile of firewood on it I have to take the smallish hill around the house in 1st gear, she will slip a little in 2nd as it is, but fine in 2nd on the flats.
Frank - many reasons I am using the 1000 over the 129. But mainly the 129 isnt running good-has some issues that needs adressed (motor, front axle, rear end frame mount, etc), the hydro is all over the place (even when the motor was fine), and its setup for the tiller with the rear gearbox, and havent been able to get headlights for it yet (the 1000 now has lights).
I like the 1000 so much better though I got a creeper for it and may even setup the tiller on it in the spring to see how it does with the #2. Extra HP would help there too, no doubt.
I plan on a major overhaul of the 129 and to outfit it with hydro lift, but thats probably a year or two away atleast.
Yeah I am a GD person... just personal preference. Look back yesterday at my pics with my new F350 - I had to custom order that from the factory last year to get a 6 speed manual. The last auto I owned is a '78 Bronco lol. Except for the wifes Lexus RX300 - that has a bunch of problems with that gosh darn automatic.
LONNIE - I agree with STEVE - On most hyd cylinders the shaft or rod necks down where the piston attachs to the rod, creates a weak spot, sudden shock of hitting an immovable object probably snapped the shaft right there. The way it's acting fits all the symtoms. Those tiny cylinders are crazy expensive....too bad a 2" x 8" ASAE standard cylinder couldn't be made to work.... think they were around $50-60 last time I checked.
TRISTAN - Like TOM H says, no reason you can't put more HP to a GD. The rearend will take it if used normally. The limiting factor of using all that HP will be traction. I had one instance of clutch slippage with my #72 at a Wisconsin plow day. Conditions seemed ideal for plowing, and I was getting my plow down a good 7-8 inches, some places more, I was right at the point of high-centering on the bottom of the rearend. Even with only 10 HP I could feel the clutch slipping. The tires factory clutch spring just wasn't supplying enough force to the clutch.
And I know what you mean about manual trans. I waited THIRTEEN l-o-n-g weeks for my '96 PSD to be built & delivered with the manual 5-spd back in '96.
TRISTAN - Like TOM H says, no reason you can't put more HP to a GD. The rearend will take it if used normally. The limiting factor of using all that HP will be traction. I had one instance of clutch slippage with my #72 at a Wisconsin plow day. Conditions seemed ideal for plowing, and I was getting my plow down a good 7-8 inches, some places more, I was right at the point of high-centering on the bottom of the rearend. Even with only 10 HP I could feel the clutch slipping. The tires factory clutch spring just wasn't supplying enough force to the clutch.
And I know what you mean about manual trans. I waited THIRTEEN l-o-n-g weeks for my '96 PSD to be built & delivered with the manual 5-spd back in '96.
Hello, I have a hydrostat problem. I'm pretty new to owning IH cubs so I have a lot to learn, bear with me! I just picked up a 127 in nice shape but the transmission is out. I'm hoping I get lucky and only find a sheared pin on a shaft but I don't know and haven't had a chance to look yet. I have a feeling it was towed without using the dump valve lever. So my question is "what is the likely cause of the transmission failure and what might it take to fix it in terms of cost and parts?" I did browse the vault but it is vast and I couldn't find answers.
Syd Smith, Cincinnati
Syd Smith, Cincinnati
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Tristan S.-
Just use the stock clutch with a red pulling spring and a locking collar behind it instead of the roll pin; compress it 3/4" instead of 1", and it should hold up to higher HP yet not slip.
Just use the stock clutch with a red pulling spring and a locking collar behind it instead of the roll pin; compress it 3/4" instead of 1", and it should hold up to higher HP yet not slip.
stanner
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- Scott Tanner... Can't even see the Cub in this mess..
Terry G.
Another possibility is an inproper or clogged hydro filter. It happened on mine when air gets into the hydro fluid.... If not linkages, try a fluid/filter change. Use the proper filter, not a Fram.
Another possibility is an inproper or clogged hydro filter. It happened on mine when air gets into the hydro fluid.... If not linkages, try a fluid/filter change. Use the proper filter, not a Fram.
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