Archive through January 04, 2008
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Wyatt & Darryl,
The axle is from a Kubota B6000 Compact. I made 5 bolt axle flanges to accomadate the John D#$RE front wheels. It steers & articulates more than the factory axle.
The axle has a seconday set of gears on the axle ends = ground clearance. That also means ZERO driveshaft clearance which is one of my current puzzles.The secondary gears also complicates the gear ratio & reverses rotation (I have to explore whether I cah "flip" the ring-gear)
The axle is from a Kubota B6000 Compact. I made 5 bolt axle flanges to accomadate the John D#$RE front wheels. It steers & articulates more than the factory axle.
The axle has a seconday set of gears on the axle ends = ground clearance. That also means ZERO driveshaft clearance which is one of my current puzzles.The secondary gears also complicates the gear ratio & reverses rotation (I have to explore whether I cah "flip" the ring-gear)
dylschmidt
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Allen: it was fun to have you stop by.I trust then you made it home safe and sound. Welcome to the forum!
hope you enjoy it as I do.
dylschmidt
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Rick; can the input rotation be dealt with in the gear box after the pto? I see Dan H. used a #60 roller chain. I thought that was very interesting...I think early Chevy 4X4 pick-ups had a roller chain of some kind in the transfer box... to be honest with you... if I had thought of that myself earlier I thnk I would have built an enclosed chain drive instead of buying a gear drop box in my 1650-4... would have been cheaper and it could have changed some the clearence issues I had. Anyway...good luck and .....get to work
can't waite to see it.
Darryl,
I've got to drop down a bit at the PTO box to get under the foot rest as well as needing offset the input at the front axle. This makes for work,but also gives me two oportunities to get the ratio as close as I can. (If I remember right its about 3.24 to 1)
Depending on clearance, I'll probably use chain at the pto box and gear to gear at the front axle. Having the chain-case easily accessible will allow easy sprocket changes if needed,for different tire combos etc.I've looked high and low for chain cases and gear boxs; looks like I'll be scratch-building both because nothing seems close enough.(Plus I've blown my budgit out of the water)
I've probably got $500 bucks in the front axle/ tires including rebuild parts.Adds up fast.
And since a post isn't a post without pictures...from the Project archives.
Now, if you'll excuse me I've got work to do!!
I've got to drop down a bit at the PTO box to get under the foot rest as well as needing offset the input at the front axle. This makes for work,but also gives me two oportunities to get the ratio as close as I can. (If I remember right its about 3.24 to 1)
Depending on clearance, I'll probably use chain at the pto box and gear to gear at the front axle. Having the chain-case easily accessible will allow easy sprocket changes if needed,for different tire combos etc.I've looked high and low for chain cases and gear boxs; looks like I'll be scratch-building both because nothing seems close enough.(Plus I've blown my budgit out of the water)
I've probably got $500 bucks in the front axle/ tires including rebuild parts.Adds up fast.
And since a post isn't a post without pictures...from the Project archives.
Now, if you'll excuse me I've got work to do!!
dylschmidt
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Rick: way to go!! my hat is off to you for tackling such a complex project..good luck..
Cheat? Me.....never. Actually the tire size is my starting point. It's the constant in the equation that I've worked back from. Mostly for proportion/cosmetic reasons I'm running Truepower 8.50's front and rear. So unless I go crazy and want a dual 6-12 setup or something, I'll try to leave that Alone.
Oh, Ken, the can of worms you've opened. I'm shootin' for 2% faster to the front.This is open for debate, but from what I've been gathered from a good source within AGCO (sorry I don't have any CIH contacts) is that 2-3% for a MFWA is the magic number.
Here's the top three reasons; Everything open for debate.
1. The front tires follow a greater arc through a turn and need extra speed to avoid being "plowed".This works hand and hand with #3.
2.Due to natural accelerated wear of the front tires, eventually the ratio will "grow" closer to 1 to 1.If you start at 1 to 1 you will quickly have an a less than ideal power balance.
3.Pulling power is more effective due to some crazy torque something-or-other.(are those technical terms??)I can't remember the exact terms used here.
He (Agco Guy) told me that the Fendt tractors vary the overdrive ratio to the front by up to 15%.Its computer controlled of course.
So anyway, now I'm more confused and everybody else is too!! Anybody got a FENDT computer laying around LOL!!
But seriously, all this and it's just a toy that I probably will never work hard anyway, Unless of course, you bet me....or dare me.
Here's a shot from about 8 years ago.The transmission broke this day, and so began the project that won't end.
Oh, Ken, the can of worms you've opened. I'm shootin' for 2% faster to the front.This is open for debate, but from what I've been gathered from a good source within AGCO (sorry I don't have any CIH contacts) is that 2-3% for a MFWA is the magic number.
Here's the top three reasons; Everything open for debate.
1. The front tires follow a greater arc through a turn and need extra speed to avoid being "plowed".This works hand and hand with #3.
2.Due to natural accelerated wear of the front tires, eventually the ratio will "grow" closer to 1 to 1.If you start at 1 to 1 you will quickly have an a less than ideal power balance.
3.Pulling power is more effective due to some crazy torque something-or-other.(are those technical terms??)I can't remember the exact terms used here.
He (Agco Guy) told me that the Fendt tractors vary the overdrive ratio to the front by up to 15%.Its computer controlled of course.
So anyway, now I'm more confused and everybody else is too!! Anybody got a FENDT computer laying around LOL!!
But seriously, all this and it's just a toy that I probably will never work hard anyway, Unless of course, you bet me....or dare me.
Here's a shot from about 8 years ago.The transmission broke this day, and so began the project that won't end.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that most 4 X 4 AG/Construction <u>is</u> set up that the front pulls/goes faster that the rears. That makes the machine being pulled though soil material rather than being pushed though it.
Well from what I've watched on TV and read on 4x4 forums even offroad in dirt to stay within the 1% rule or you'll bust the transfer case.
My buddy's Jeep has a 3.54 Scout in the rear and the Jeep 4.27 in the front and even on a real loose sandy / rolling rocks hill it was trying to run the back of the Jeep over the front half. He only used it that one time to keep from having me winch him up again. When he gets his mind made up I'll be putting the wider 3.54 IH front under it.
Since you'll be offroad with it you might get away with it but I wouldn't drive it to town locked in ... besides remember you've got imported steel in that front axle ! ... Dang Toyota bolts twist like modeling clay before they break !!!!!!
At any rate (pun!) keep the project going and the pics coming
My buddy's Jeep has a 3.54 Scout in the rear and the Jeep 4.27 in the front and even on a real loose sandy / rolling rocks hill it was trying to run the back of the Jeep over the front half. He only used it that one time to keep from having me winch him up again. When he gets his mind made up I'll be putting the wider 3.54 IH front under it.
Since you'll be offroad with it you might get away with it but I wouldn't drive it to town locked in ... besides remember you've got imported steel in that front axle ! ... Dang Toyota bolts twist like modeling clay before they break !!!!!!
At any rate (pun!) keep the project going and the pics coming
Rick - Sitting here running it through my mind again (whosh! that was fast) I see that your front ratio will need to be faster than the rear due to your smaller tire size. BUT ... I still say the ground coverage should stay within the 1% rule to keep from stressing the drivetrain.
What I meant earlier about cheating with tire OD was the measurement of the OD not the stated tire size ie... air pressure
What I meant earlier about cheating with tire OD was the measurement of the OD not the stated tire size ie... air pressure
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<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
Think of it this way -
Take a single drive axle and put it in first gear then pull it with another vechicle in second gear. The gears are going to be stressed if both vehicles are getting 100% traction.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Ken-
That kind of reminds me when my wife and I go to the mall...
Think of it this way -
Take a single drive axle and put it in first gear then pull it with another vechicle in second gear. The gears are going to be stressed if both vehicles are getting 100% traction.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Ken-
That kind of reminds me when my wife and I go to the mall...
dylschmidt
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here is 2cents more.I am sure articulated 4 wheel drive ag tractors run an equal front to rear ratio. but.. front wheel assit ag tractors run anywhere from 1 1/2 to 3% advance on the front axle. these tractor were to be taken out of 4 wheel drive when driven on hard surface. all other 4X4's like articualing 4wheel drive and other "full time" 4 wheel drive like the case IH 3294 had an equal front to rear ratio.
Oh, boy....like I said "can of worms". The MFWA Ag vs Rock Crawler debate.I agree with both Ken and Darryl on this. I come from the truck 4x4 school of thought so it was hard for me to swallow running things faster to the front. That said, and since I won't be pulling a 14,000# earth scaper (this thin IS just a toy) Most likely I should stay as close to 1 to 1 as possible. The 4x4 is definatly a "use with care" featue.If I end up at 2% no big deal.
Thanks for the input everyone...isn't this fun?
Hey, Art maybe if you drive my tractor in the mall, then you two will get along!!
Thanks for the input everyone...isn't this fun?
Hey, Art maybe if you drive my tractor in the mall, then you two will get along!!
Rick Beam that's one sweet original you have in the works there. Keep us up to date on the progress. You might know the answer to this question off the top of your head.
I'm working on some plans for a 9 speed gearbox similar to the M&W one. Since cub transmission gears are readily available I'm thinking of trying to use as many of them in the 9-speed box as possible to keep my costs down. Does anyone know what the diametral pitch and pressure angle of the spur gears that IH used?
I'm modeling the whole thing up in Pro/E and should have some screen shots to post here soon.
I'm working on some plans for a 9 speed gearbox similar to the M&W one. Since cub transmission gears are readily available I'm thinking of trying to use as many of them in the 9-speed box as possible to keep my costs down. Does anyone know what the diametral pitch and pressure angle of the spur gears that IH used?
I'm modeling the whole thing up in Pro/E and should have some screen shots to post here soon.
