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Archive through August 12, 2007
- Thread starter tmcall
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Mike F., a guy named Mike Masheris (a welder by trade) came up with a great fix for it. Here's what it looks like after it's welded up. Note that this frame hadn't actually cracked yet as I decided to have my Original frame fixed before it actually cracked.
Also note that the welded on splints are on the backside of the flanges, if they were put on the other side it would mess up the fit and the drive shaft would be the thickness of the splints too short. One other thing, it sounds like you have a creeper gear in yours, I believe that they use the lower mounting holes of the frame so adding a splint there like in my photos could also mess up the drive shaft fit!!!!!
Mike F., does your Original have the "gearcase" like this one? If so, it has the Danco creeper gear aka "Underdrive".
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Ryan W.-
I think they started putting balance gears in the K241-K341 starting with the 1x8/9 series. Check your service manual for your 127, if it describes the engine as "dynamically balanced" or something along those lines it probably has balance gears too. Your 129 most likely has them. I'm not sure if my 1650 had noise coming from the balance gears (too many other rattles and noises) but when I pulled the pan to replace the gasket I noticed that they wobbled a bit. So I removed them so they wouldn't try to come out of that priceless K341 block. The scary thing is, that tractor has ONLY 400 HOURS and the bearings in the balance gears had fairly significant wear already. My advice would be to remove them next time you have the motor out of your tractor, all it costs is a pan gasket and an oil change.
I think they started putting balance gears in the K241-K341 starting with the 1x8/9 series. Check your service manual for your 127, if it describes the engine as "dynamically balanced" or something along those lines it probably has balance gears too. Your 129 most likely has them. I'm not sure if my 1650 had noise coming from the balance gears (too many other rattles and noises) but when I pulled the pan to replace the gasket I noticed that they wobbled a bit. So I removed them so they wouldn't try to come out of that priceless K341 block. The scary thing is, that tractor has ONLY 400 HOURS and the bearings in the balance gears had fairly significant wear already. My advice would be to remove them next time you have the motor out of your tractor, all it costs is a pan gasket and an oil change.
kide
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 3,779
- displayname
- Gerry Ide
Kraig - I looked at an Original (late 61 - serial # was in the 20000 range) over the weekend and was scratching my head at the "links" on the outside of the frame at the union with the gearcase.. Now I know WTF ...
Balance gear thread ...again. Man, I'm sure that the 129 (and the new "smoker 149") are gonna get new pan gaskets soonest. The K-301 in the 129 is a mid-late '95 replacement with about 500 hours on it (tick, tick, tick.......kablammm!!!!)
Balance gear thread ...again. Man, I'm sure that the 129 (and the new "smoker 149") are gonna get new pan gaskets soonest. The K-301 in the 129 is a mid-late '95 replacement with about 500 hours on it (tick, tick, tick.......kablammm!!!!)
Kraig,
Yes mine looks exactly like your picture with the creeper gear. Mine doesn't look as pretty. (ie. It's still used for cutting grass & blowing snow). Where is the welder located? I'm close to Toronto, Ontario. It obviously looks like I'll have to take the tractor apart to make the fix. I guess I'll need to see how far I need to go once I confirm that this is my problem (ie. once I get home tonight).
Thanks
Yes mine looks exactly like your picture with the creeper gear. Mine doesn't look as pretty. (ie. It's still used for cutting grass & blowing snow). Where is the welder located? I'm close to Toronto, Ontario. It obviously looks like I'll have to take the tractor apart to make the fix. I guess I'll need to see how far I need to go once I confirm that this is my problem (ie. once I get home tonight).
Thanks
Mike F., I had my good friend Art weld that for me. I got the "splints" from Mike Masheris, who lives in Illinois. (I should correct myself, Mike lists his occupation as "Millwright" not welder as I had earlier written, sorry Mike) Mike had made up a couple of sets of them and I lucked out and got the parts from him. I'm not sure if Mike makes those for sale or not. In any case I would think that any competent welder should be able to do a similar fix for you should that be what is causing your issue.
My 782 with a Magnum M18S engine has electrical problems and I need advice. Last week it wouldn’t start unless I jumped the solenoid terminals, and the PTO clutch would not engage until I ran to it a temporary wire directly from the battery. The battery terminal on the key switch is nearly rusted away so I figured that’s the problem.
So I got a new key switch (P/N 925-3021), and after I installed it the 782 started, but died when the key was released to the Run position. So I pulled out the key switch and bench tested it for continuity at the Off, Run-Light, Run, and Start positions. All okay per the Service Manual “Key Switch” wiring diagram table. The Clutch Switch also bench tested okay for continuity.
I then checked the wiring harness against the wiring diagram and found the “I” terminal tan/blue wire which runs to the clutch switch and then to the engine (Ignition Module) COIL was swapped with the “R” terminal grey wire that runs to the engine (rectifier/regulator) ALT. Also the previous owner spliced a jumper wire between B and E terminals of the Clutch Switch, which keeps electricity flowing to the Coil even when the PTO is turned on. A month ago when I replaced the electric PTO clutch I also replaced the Clutch Switch even though it tested okay. At the time I didn’t check the wiring harness thus the jumper wire has been in place with the 782 working fine for several years. I wonder why that jumper wire was put there? Maybe there was a break in the wire and that’s how they fixed it. Today I did replace the tan wire between the fuse and “B” Clutch Switch terminal because I found an intermittent continuity problem in the wire. Anyway, I don’t think it has anything to do with today’s problem because electricity is flowing to the Coil as before.
So I swapped the wires running to the Key Switch “I” and “R” terminals so they agree with the wiring diagram and try starting the 782. Then as before the engine starts, but quits when the key is released to the Run position. I disconnected the Gray and the paired Violet & Violet/White wires at the engine connector and tested continuity. All are getting electricity (hot) with the key switch at the Run position. I then reconnected the Violet wire set. The Seat Switch, which is supposed to be open for the engine to run, is defective and is permanently open. Just to be sure I disconnected the wires off the seat switch.
Again I try and start the 782 but now with the Gray (ALT) wire disconnected at the engine connector. The engine starts and runs. The charge indicator needle swings to maximum charging (which it never did before). The hour meter is running as usual, and the clutch switch to engage the mower deck PTO works fine. But when I move the key to the Off position the engine keeps running, but now the charge indicator needle moves to the 0 neutral position. With the engine still running and key in the off position I reconnect the Gray (ALT) wire and the engine keeps purring along. It not only until I move the key to the Run position does the engine quit.
At this point I’m stumped. Could it be the stator or rectifier/regulator? I haven't tested those yet.
Thanks,
Roy
So I got a new key switch (P/N 925-3021), and after I installed it the 782 started, but died when the key was released to the Run position. So I pulled out the key switch and bench tested it for continuity at the Off, Run-Light, Run, and Start positions. All okay per the Service Manual “Key Switch” wiring diagram table. The Clutch Switch also bench tested okay for continuity.
I then checked the wiring harness against the wiring diagram and found the “I” terminal tan/blue wire which runs to the clutch switch and then to the engine (Ignition Module) COIL was swapped with the “R” terminal grey wire that runs to the engine (rectifier/regulator) ALT. Also the previous owner spliced a jumper wire between B and E terminals of the Clutch Switch, which keeps electricity flowing to the Coil even when the PTO is turned on. A month ago when I replaced the electric PTO clutch I also replaced the Clutch Switch even though it tested okay. At the time I didn’t check the wiring harness thus the jumper wire has been in place with the 782 working fine for several years. I wonder why that jumper wire was put there? Maybe there was a break in the wire and that’s how they fixed it. Today I did replace the tan wire between the fuse and “B” Clutch Switch terminal because I found an intermittent continuity problem in the wire. Anyway, I don’t think it has anything to do with today’s problem because electricity is flowing to the Coil as before.
So I swapped the wires running to the Key Switch “I” and “R” terminals so they agree with the wiring diagram and try starting the 782. Then as before the engine starts, but quits when the key is released to the Run position. I disconnected the Gray and the paired Violet & Violet/White wires at the engine connector and tested continuity. All are getting electricity (hot) with the key switch at the Run position. I then reconnected the Violet wire set. The Seat Switch, which is supposed to be open for the engine to run, is defective and is permanently open. Just to be sure I disconnected the wires off the seat switch.
Again I try and start the 782 but now with the Gray (ALT) wire disconnected at the engine connector. The engine starts and runs. The charge indicator needle swings to maximum charging (which it never did before). The hour meter is running as usual, and the clutch switch to engage the mower deck PTO works fine. But when I move the key to the Off position the engine keeps running, but now the charge indicator needle moves to the 0 neutral position. With the engine still running and key in the off position I reconnect the Gray (ALT) wire and the engine keeps purring along. It not only until I move the key to the Run position does the engine quit.
At this point I’m stumped. Could it be the stator or rectifier/regulator? I haven't tested those yet.
Thanks,
Roy
rbedell
Well-known member
Roy:
The 782 NEVER was wired for a M-18. So, in order for it to run correctly, some modifications are needed. But before that happens, we need to know what the Chassis Serial Number is so we can identify which wiring harness you have.
The 782 NEVER was wired for a M-18. So, in order for it to run correctly, some modifications are needed. But before that happens, we need to know what the Chassis Serial Number is so we can identify which wiring harness you have.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2006
- Messages
- 2,912
- displayname
- Allen Schumacher
Pat K, from what I've read here on Forum there doesnt seem to be a Delco cross. Seems Delcos are made for cars. What you want is a Kohler 4151921S, thats the latest number. Sponsers above have them. If your really in a hurry, check with a shop that fixes Commercial lawn mowers, thats where I got one. Other guys will add comments soon so keep checking back.
mgonitzke
Well-known member
Finally ran the 1650 for the first time after putting in new CCC motor mounts to the tune of almost $90 and welding the brace between the rails and removing the balance gears. I'm pretty impressed. I tightened the new mounts so that 1 thread showed on each bolt. Even without the balance gears there is very little vibration at full throttle. It vibrates less than my 1450, and is almost as smooth as the 582 and 1811 I used to own. Not bad for a K-341, huh?
I also finally got dual hydraulic handles fixed, I had to drill a new hole for the handle in that cast piece and re-tap it, and I also added 2 1/4-20 setscrews to hold it on. I had to make a new handle out of a 3/8" bolt, and it really doesn't look too bad. I think I've got me a new snowthrower tractor now. Anyone have problems with belt slippage with a 16 h.p. or larger engine and a QA-36A with the stock pulley?
I also finally got dual hydraulic handles fixed, I had to drill a new hole for the handle in that cast piece and re-tap it, and I also added 2 1/4-20 setscrews to hold it on. I had to make a new handle out of a 3/8" bolt, and it really doesn't look too bad. I think I've got me a new snowthrower tractor now. Anyone have problems with belt slippage with a 16 h.p. or larger engine and a QA-36A with the stock pulley?
Dennis F-
guys over at redpower forum want to troubleshoot the problem, rather than give me the steps to adjust the carb/and or linkage... but it's hard to troubleshoot the tractor one step at a time, it's over 2 hours away!
guys over at redpower forum want to troubleshoot the problem, rather than give me the steps to adjust the carb/and or linkage... but it's hard to troubleshoot the tractor one step at a time, it's over 2 hours away!
Roy: as roland said, your tractor was retrofitted with the M18. there are (at least!) two different ways to wire up the tractor, one of which requires a relay (i have that schematic, but it's not my own, so i dont want to post it here)
the other way to wire it up, roland helped me with awhile back, and i have it here for you, but note the serial number break. (though i think this one may be for the kohler command, with different wire colors) and requires a key switch from a different year tractor (perhaps a 1512 if i remember correctly)
basically, the motor you have should have a separate kill wire, and you have to wire that up properly.
the other way to wire it up, roland helped me with awhile back, and i have it here for you, but note the serial number break. (though i think this one may be for the kohler command, with different wire colors) and requires a key switch from a different year tractor (perhaps a 1512 if i remember correctly)
basically, the motor you have should have a separate kill wire, and you have to wire that up properly.
djhostetler
New member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1
- displayname
- Dustin Hostetler
Hi all. I've been a member of the site for some time now but this is my first post. Does anyone know the size of the engine mounting bolts on a 107. I picked one up a while ago for cheap and the engine is not bolted down....weird i know. But I did get it running. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
Dustin
Dustin
Dustin H.
If you click the Parts Lookup Button above and enter in 107 for the model number, I think you'll find this.
If you click the Parts Lookup Button above and enter in 107 for the model number, I think you'll find this.
Ryan W.,
To my knowledge, Kohler has never issued a service bulletin covering removal of balance gears. If the engine has been reasonably cared for during it's life, the balance gears should survive until first major overhaul. At that time, the needle roller bearings and stub shafts that support the gears, should be replaced. Those that don't do this usually end up with a ventilated crankcase.
The stock Kohler K-series engine crankshaft only has enough counterweight mass to offer a 26.8 % reciprocating balance factor. The balance gears contribute an additional 22.3% to the counterweights in the vertical direction, resulting in a recip balance factor of near 50% (just about ideal for a single cylinder engine). There's another way of achieving the same result and that's by adding additional counterweight mass to the pto-side (thinner) counterweight, as shown in the picture below.
To my knowledge, Kohler has never issued a service bulletin covering removal of balance gears. If the engine has been reasonably cared for during it's life, the balance gears should survive until first major overhaul. At that time, the needle roller bearings and stub shafts that support the gears, should be replaced. Those that don't do this usually end up with a ventilated crankcase.
The stock Kohler K-series engine crankshaft only has enough counterweight mass to offer a 26.8 % reciprocating balance factor. The balance gears contribute an additional 22.3% to the counterweights in the vertical direction, resulting in a recip balance factor of near 50% (just about ideal for a single cylinder engine). There's another way of achieving the same result and that's by adding additional counterweight mass to the pto-side (thinner) counterweight, as shown in the picture below.
