IH-CC 122 w/ issues while driving

[hydroharry]

Mike - WHOA!!!! To bad about the advice from that local small engine company. At least now you've found the place for good answers to your questions. Also, I suspect you haven't down loaded the service and operators manual for your tractor. You can get those on this site as well. The Operators manual is where the fluid specs and capacities are identified, that I mentioned yesterday. To help lead you in the right direction here's a link to the Operator manual

http://ccmanuals.info/pdf/1x2-3%20Operators%20Manual.pdf

And here is the Service Manual

http://ccmanuals.info/pdf/1x2-3%20Service%20Manual.pdf

And just in case you decide to follow Marty's suggestion to remove the rear cover plate to clean things out good here is the gasket you'll need (listed at CC Specialties).

​

OEM Rear end Cover Plate Gasket For all Cast Iron Rear End Machines PN/ IH-350837-R2 USE IH-350837-R3​ IH 350837 R2 USE IH 350837 R3​

$14.00 ​

 

[dschwandt]

Like Harry said, down load the manuals.
Will answer a bunch of ?? you are likely to have.

Good Luck!

 

[hydroharry]

Mike - I really hope you look back here at the Forum before you change that tranny fluid. Several guys besides me mentioned using HyTran (original name), which later was called HyTran Plus, and now I believe it's called HyTran Ultra or HyTran Ultraction. I even mentioned using an equivalent substitute from NAPA, but I forgot to mention why. The key to look for in the substitute is that it meets IH HyTran Spec B-6, which means the fluid will hold up to 50% of it volume in moisture. There has been a lot of discussion on this site, Red Power and many other sites about Spec B-6, and no one is going to win. I lost a battle in the early days of the Forum when I (incorrectly) stated there must be some equivalents since IH wasn't in the oil production business. It was quickly brought to my attention that IH did in fact own their own oil company, Viscosity Oil, and they were located right in the Chicago area. I was using a Valvoline Premium Tractor Fluid that stated it met IH Spec B-6. As I understand it, IH (now Case/IH or CNH) also includes other additives that are not part of Spec B-6 so it may be best to use the real stuff if you can get it. I see on Charlies site (CC Specialties) that he is sold out but expecting delivery soon. I don't know if that is a country wide shortage or what the cause is. As such, here is a pic of the NAPA stuff I mentioned that you could use in a pinch. I don't know if it actual states it meets Spec B-6 but the front label shows it meets Case-IH HyTran Plus.

 

[snicklas]

Since there is gear lube in there, I would get one of the magnetic heaters that are normally recommended to the hydro guys to help in starting in the winter. I would stick it to the bottom of the transmission housing, there should be a fairly flat spot. Plug it in and let it cook for a while. That should help to thin the oil a bit so it may drain better. I would also lift the front end of the tractor, to let gravity help you also..... just be careful working around the warm oil.... once you get as much as you can out, fill it back up with the correct fluid and you should be ok.....

Funny thing is, I can “smell” the problem through the internet.... LOL... the high sulfur content of gear lube is one smell that sticks with you. Especially when you have been on the road and walk by a truck (hopefully not yours) and you get a whiff of hot gear oil..... almost a disheartening and the Carmel smell of coolant.....

 

[Larry Liberto]

Mike - I really hope you look back here at the Forum before you change that tranny fluid. Several guys besides me mentioned using HyTran (original name), which later was called HyTran Plus, and now I believe it's called HyTran Ultra or HyTran Ultraction. I even mentioned using an equivalent substitute from NAPA, but I forgot to mention why. The key to look for in the substitute is that it meets IH HyTran Spec B-6, which means the fluid will hold up to 50% of it volume in moisture. There has been a lot of discussion on this site, Red Power and many other sites about Spec B-6, and no one is going to win. I lost a battle in the early days of the Forum when I (incorrectly) stated there must be some equivalents since IH wasn't in the oil production business. It was quickly brought to my attention that IH did in fact own their own oil company, Viscosity Oil, and they were located right in the Chicago area. I was using a Valvoline Premium Tractor Fluid that stated it met IH Spec B-6. As I understand it, IH (now Case/IH or CNH) also includes other additives that are not part of Spec B-6 so it may be best to use the real stuff if you can get it. I see on Charlies site (CC Specialties) that he is sold out but expecting delivery soon. I don't know if that is a country wide shortage or what the cause is. As such, here is a pic of the NAPA stuff I mentioned that you could use in a pinch. I don't know if it actual states it meets Spec B-6 but the front label shows it meets Case-IH HyTran Plus.
View attachment 138898

I am really confused by this notion that you must use hi-tran. It is my understanding that the transmission in the 122 is the same one from the Framall Cub. On the Framall Cub the manual says use SAE-30 and on the 122 the manual say hi-tran or SAE-30. So, why would you say he has to use hi-tran when IH designed it for either?

 

[mgonitzke]

I am really confused by this notion that you must use hi-tran. It is my understanding that the transmission in the 122 is the same one from the Framall Cub. On the Framall Cub the manual says use SAE-30 and on the 122 the manual say hi-tran or SAE-30. So, why would you say he has to use hi-tran when IH designed it for either?

He's not saying you HAVE to use HyTran, he's saying it is better to do so. It will deal with moisture a lot better than SAE30 engine oil or just about anything else.

 

[Larry Liberto]

He's not saying you HAVE to use HyTran, he's saying it is better to do so. It will deal with moisture a lot better than SAE30 engine oil or just about anything else.

So it's a moister concern that warrants the use of HyTran?
Wouldn't the use of SeaFoam in SAE-30 be just as good?

 

[Larry Liberto]

80W140?!! Wow, that stuff would be like molasses!
I would highly suggest to take the rear cover off and try cleaning all you can out before putting in the Hytran. The axle housings will have some in them also. You may get by without taking these off (lot more work involved), but I would remove the rear cover. You can get a rear cover gasket for around 12-15 bucks.

What the Farmall Cub guys suggest for cleaning out their transmission, which it is my understanding that the Cub 122 has the same transmission, is to drain it, fill it with kerosene, drive it around for a few minutes, drain again and finally fill with the proper fluid.

 

[mgwin]

I am not knocking anybody's suggestions, I am just going by what I have experienced myself.
I have opened several trannys that have more than likely been closed up since their birth 50+ years ago. I am sure most of the previous owners did not change the fluid in the transmission if they were having no issues whatsoever. Remember the phrase: "If it aint' broke, don't fix it."
The fluid inside these transmissions were dark, and somewhat thicker from years of use. There was little to no evidence of moisture, proving the Hytran absorbs moisture very well.

If the Hytran back in those days lasts 50+ years, then imagine how long today's Hytran would last!
30 wt. oil is ok, but it is thicker, and the temperature range on 30 wt. oil is less than the Hytran.

My preference:
If you have the tranny out of the tractor, I would take the rear cover off, along with the axle housings, and clean everything along with replacing the axle seals. That way you can inspect for any damage, or debris that may be lying in the bottom of the tranny. If there is no debris or layers of "metal dust" lying in the bottom, you know your tranny is in pretty good shape.
Why change the axle seals?
I would hate to change just the fluid, only to find out the axle seals were leaking. Remember, the seals have been in there as long as the fluid has!
CCSpecialties has the seals for less than 8 bucks each.

If the tranny is still in the tractor, and you do not want to take it out, you could still change the axle seals.
If you put any type of fluid in the transmission to clean out the old fluid, you will have some of that fluid remain in the tranny and axle housings.
Taking off the rear cover and wiping out the tranny will get most of the old fluid out, except for what is lying inside the housings.
Raising the front of the tractor will help the old fluid to run out of the tranny also.

With a little effort, you can clean out the tranny, replace seals and gaskets, and fill it back up with Hytran for probably less than 75 bucks.
Then you will have a tranny that should last another 50+years!

 

[hydroharry]

Well, it's pretty obvious I'm a Hydro guy and I sorta hate to get into Gear Head discussions, but since I jumped in here goes an additional 2cents:
Yup the manual for the 122 (and 71, 102) states to use either SAE-30 or IH Hy-Tran. IH kept the recommendation the same for the next series of gear drive tractors (72, 104, 124), but then a funny thing happened. The manual for the 73, 106, 126 states to only use IH Hy-Tran, and the next series, 86, 108, 128 manual not only states to use IH Hy-Tran but includes a warning more or less, stating IH would not be responsible for sub-standard performance if a fluid not meeting IH Spec B-6 is used. IH maintained this same recommendation and warning statement for the long production run of the next series as well, the infamous Quiet Line gear drive series 800, 1000 and 1200 series.

Now, I certainly can't speak to anything about the Cub tractor, but it seems to me the IH Hy-Tran recommendation for gear drive Cub Cadets is something that evolved over time (and likely IH's experience with a whole lotta tractors). In my view the key element is the moisture absorbing characteristics of Hy-Tran. I don't know what SeaFoam really does but I believe it's for fuel systems and eventually burns off or out as part of the combustion process. It's pretty obvious it likely won't burn out of a tranny. I believe the issue with the tranny under discussion is that moisture (water) mixed with SAE-30 oil will likely cause some foaming, if it even mixes with the oil. This would result in really poor lubrication of some areas as it flows thru-out the tranny. On the other hand, Hy-Tran will absorb 50% of it's volume in moisture and I don't think it will foam, and as such just it would keep on lubricating as it should.

All we're talking about here is 3 and 1/2 quarts (or 4 quarts if you go by the Quiet Line 800, 1000, 1200 manual). At todays prices for oil we're really not talking about that much price difference if you use an equivalent brand which shows it meets Spec B-6. If you go for the really good real Hy-Tran you're probably about doubling the price, but as Marty noted it will probably last you another 50 years (but I wouldn't leave it that long

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die
(they just find another resting place)

 

[mgonitzke]

So it's a moister concern that warrants the use of HyTran?
Wouldn't the use of SeaFoam in SAE-30 be just as good?

Yes, that is at least one reason to use HyTran. It will trap small amounts of water in goo and globs that will stick harmlessly to the transaxle housing. Probably more importantly for a gear drive tractor (since there is far more air space in the transaxle than on a hydrostatic drive tractor) is that is very "sticky" and will cling to the parts, so if the tractor sits a long time, even the parts that are not immersed will not rust as condensation comes and goes. I have had tractors that sat for years, even decades outside before me getting them running, and the insides of the transaxles generally looked new.

Seafoam's website says you can put it in engine oil to "clean intake valve and chamber deposits" and "liquefy harmful residues and deposits", but I've not actually heard of anyone that does that, and neither of those things are applicable to the transmission in a Cub Cadet, so I'm not sure why one would want to put it in there. It isn't going to do anything about condensation, nor will it make the oil cling to surfaces better.

 

[tromaniecki]

Will let y'all know the results... thanks for everyone input.

Hey Mike, any news on what the results might be?