Just thinking about something.......If the attack on Pearl Harbor happened TODAY, how would the US respond???? The same politiacl bulls--t like in the Mid-East or go kick thier ass and THEN ask questions like Parents and Grandparents did?
-
This community needs YOUR help today. With the ever increasing fees of everything (server, software, domain, e-mail) , we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community to help spread our love and knowledge of IH Cub Cadets. You get a lot of great new account perks including access to private forums. If you sign up for annual, I will ship a few IH Cub Cadet Forum decals too in addition to all the account perks you get. You can see what it looks like below.
Sign up here: https://www.ihcubcadet.com/account/upgrades
If Pearl Harbor happened TODAY
- Thread starter thoffman
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
jchamberlin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,842
- Location
- Farmville, North Carolina
- displayname
- Jeremiah Chamberlin
Tom --I think Pearl Harbor happened on 9/11/01 and it seems as if we responded by kicking ass and asking questions later. The questions have changed, though. In WWII president Roosevelt felt a lot of pressure to enter the war; in the case of president Bush, he felt pressure not only to retaliate against the Taliban state in Afganistan which supported the Al-Qaida terrorists, but he felt pressure to "finish the job" his father had started in Iraq.
I believe his father stategically chose not to "finish off" Sadam Hussein in light of the political realities current at the time. I'm not sure what changed between Bush I and Bush II, but I don't feel we had anything to fear from Sadam, and that, politically speaking, we could get much more of our interests served by "leveraging" him as opposed to "leveling" him.
But its OK, the multi-national oil corporations headquartered in our our country once more own the oil fields, so business has been served.
As far as Afganistan is concerned, it seems we have been used as tools to serve the stategic agendas of others. We've never really been in charge of either battlefield --Iraq or Afganistan-- we have been, and are being, manipulated by others who, like a ju-jitsu fighter turn our own energy against us.
The only way out of this morass is for our political leaders to ask and answer the question, "What does the United States of America need to happen in this situation?" As opposed to "What kind of spin can I put on this situation to gain my next election?"
Of course, asking that question assumes that one "knows oneself" (per Socrates), and the sad fact is that we don't know ourselves --as a country or political entity: a nation-- we are too wrapped up in ourselves-- each of us, including our politicians, to even conceive of the notion of "the common good." We keep doing things that our founding Fathers would truly find "Un-Amarican," that is, at odds with our founding principles.
Well that's my rant. I guess I'm channeling Kentucky Ken.
I believe his father stategically chose not to "finish off" Sadam Hussein in light of the political realities current at the time. I'm not sure what changed between Bush I and Bush II, but I don't feel we had anything to fear from Sadam, and that, politically speaking, we could get much more of our interests served by "leveraging" him as opposed to "leveling" him.
But its OK, the multi-national oil corporations headquartered in our our country once more own the oil fields, so business has been served.
As far as Afganistan is concerned, it seems we have been used as tools to serve the stategic agendas of others. We've never really been in charge of either battlefield --Iraq or Afganistan-- we have been, and are being, manipulated by others who, like a ju-jitsu fighter turn our own energy against us.
The only way out of this morass is for our political leaders to ask and answer the question, "What does the United States of America need to happen in this situation?" As opposed to "What kind of spin can I put on this situation to gain my next election?"
Of course, asking that question assumes that one "knows oneself" (per Socrates), and the sad fact is that we don't know ourselves --as a country or political entity: a nation-- we are too wrapped up in ourselves-- each of us, including our politicians, to even conceive of the notion of "the common good." We keep doing things that our founding Fathers would truly find "Un-Amarican," that is, at odds with our founding principles.
Well that's my rant. I guess I'm channeling Kentucky Ken.
We just didn't go kick ass in WWII. It took a couple years and looked pretty grim at first. It was our industrial strength that won the war along with mistakes from the enemy and I believe good over evil.
I think our people would respond in the same way today if we had the chance but wars are fought very differently now.
I think our people would respond in the same way today if we had the chance but wars are fought very differently now.
In 1941 men (and women) scrambled to join the military to fight for our country and what they earned doing it didn't seem to matter. There's no way that would happen today unless the gov. offered a lot of money to each soldier.
We aren't the same country as we were 70 years ago. We are now "multi-cultural" and along with that have gone our morals along with "one nation under God". What we have today are wimps and foreigners. People don't know or seem to care what real freedom is nor what it takes to accomplish real freedom. The day will come, much to Americas disappointment, when the freesom we have taken for granted will once again be longed for.
Our forefathers would be ashamed and rightfully so. Just look at how politicians gain power today.
No, we simply wouldn't survive another Pearl Harbor IMO. And the sad news is it's just a matter of time. The rest of the world is like a crouching tiger ready to pounce.
God bless the men and women we had in 1941.
We aren't the same country as we were 70 years ago. We are now "multi-cultural" and along with that have gone our morals along with "one nation under God". What we have today are wimps and foreigners. People don't know or seem to care what real freedom is nor what it takes to accomplish real freedom. The day will come, much to Americas disappointment, when the freesom we have taken for granted will once again be longed for.
Our forefathers would be ashamed and rightfully so. Just look at how politicians gain power today.
No, we simply wouldn't survive another Pearl Harbor IMO. And the sad news is it's just a matter of time. The rest of the world is like a crouching tiger ready to pounce.
God bless the men and women we had in 1941.
Jeremiah,
I'm not talking about a few cowardly rag heads that flew planes into buildings, blend in with the crowds walking the side walks, and other terrorist acts. I'm talking about military machines coming from country "X" with "X" plastered all over their war maichines. As much as I hate to say it, I think Wayne is nuts on.
I'm not talking about a few cowardly rag heads that flew planes into buildings, blend in with the crowds walking the side walks, and other terrorist acts. I'm talking about military machines coming from country "X" with "X" plastered all over their war maichines. As much as I hate to say it, I think Wayne is nuts on.
rchristensen
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 933
- displayname
- Richard Christensen
Wayne I agree with some of what you say, but I think you are wrong when you say The problem is we have gone "muli-cultural".
The cultural mix is what made our country great. I think most of us came from foreigners passing through Ellis island at one time. Unless you are a Native American, your ancestors were foreigners at one time
I don't want to get political with this but, my thoughts are we changed our values when we went to an all volunteer military.
After 9-11 we sent our volunteer military to fight, and nothing was asked of our citizenry, unlike WW2 when everybody was asked to pitch in.
I recall a commentator once saying during the IRAQ war that the only people affected were the soldiers and their families. The rest of us could just go along with our lives as if every thing was normal. How sad.
The cultural mix is what made our country great. I think most of us came from foreigners passing through Ellis island at one time. Unless you are a Native American, your ancestors were foreigners at one time
I don't want to get political with this but, my thoughts are we changed our values when we went to an all volunteer military.
After 9-11 we sent our volunteer military to fight, and nothing was asked of our citizenry, unlike WW2 when everybody was asked to pitch in.
I recall a commentator once saying during the IRAQ war that the only people affected were the soldiers and their families. The rest of us could just go along with our lives as if every thing was normal. How sad.
Richard-
When I said foreigners I was simply refering to people that were made Americans in the last couple of generations or since Pearl Harbor. These are people with maybe one generation, if that much, of ancestry here. These are also people trying to bring their culture here and change the American way AS WE TRUE AMERICANS KNOW IT...that is the english language and Christianity to name a couple. I think America has a unique culture but there are so many ignorant people that would argue the point today. Cultural mix of this sort is not making this country great; it is adding to the confusion and destruction of America as we know it. I personally don't care to have a mosque down the street but they are there. As far as the changing of our values...they are changed almost daily. I think that's been evident for over a hundred years now and probably longer. Look at how oil, airplanes, cars, music, sex, and the computer to name a few have evolved and changed our "values" with it.
The bottom line here is if we didn't have the craving for money and the corruption in Washington DC this thread wouldn't have even been started. And you can't help but get political. America is losing a little bit every day and I don't think it's the fault of the average, true American that have great, greatgrandfathers and a thing called a family tree...HERE. Somehow (through corruption) we have just let things slip through our fingers. I know I wasn't asked about or able to vote for or against Obamacare for instance. Were you?
Those men and women I spoke of in '41 would be scratching the hell out of their heads now.
OK Charlie, you can POOF now.
When I said foreigners I was simply refering to people that were made Americans in the last couple of generations or since Pearl Harbor. These are people with maybe one generation, if that much, of ancestry here. These are also people trying to bring their culture here and change the American way AS WE TRUE AMERICANS KNOW IT...that is the english language and Christianity to name a couple. I think America has a unique culture but there are so many ignorant people that would argue the point today. Cultural mix of this sort is not making this country great; it is adding to the confusion and destruction of America as we know it. I personally don't care to have a mosque down the street but they are there. As far as the changing of our values...they are changed almost daily. I think that's been evident for over a hundred years now and probably longer. Look at how oil, airplanes, cars, music, sex, and the computer to name a few have evolved and changed our "values" with it.
The bottom line here is if we didn't have the craving for money and the corruption in Washington DC this thread wouldn't have even been started. And you can't help but get political. America is losing a little bit every day and I don't think it's the fault of the average, true American that have great, greatgrandfathers and a thing called a family tree...HERE. Somehow (through corruption) we have just let things slip through our fingers. I know I wasn't asked about or able to vote for or against Obamacare for instance. Were you?
Those men and women I spoke of in '41 would be scratching the hell out of their heads now.
OK Charlie, you can POOF now.
Theres one thing here that Ive been pondering after reading all of these posts...
Suppose we did have a Pearl Harbor like attack on the US again. Suppose we did have the draft where every young man and women would be URGED to sign up and fight for our country...can anyone fathom how long that would take to do something like that? To train and teach thousands of men and women to try and learn the latest technology of aircraft, marine, and army branches?? We cant just tell Private Bob to go hop in a B-29 and go bomb the hell out of some place...me, and a lot of people on this sight wouldnt have a CLUE on what to do first.
Another thing that relates to this. We have a memorial on campus here at ISU dedicated to the men and women fighting in current wars, conflicts and past conflicts and wars. The most polite way to pay respect while walking through this memorial is to take your hat off. Nothing pisses me off more than to see a young man or woman walk through that memorial and leave their hat on. How can you do this???
My family was never involved with any past conflict. My father was the only family member in the service for 3 or 4 years or so. I was never really brought up to speak of war unless it was related to historical talk. But I know well enough to pay respect for the people who served our country. Pearl Harbor is just another reminder of how many heroes were made that day. I can't ever thank them enough for doing what they did. Thank you to all who have served.
Suppose we did have a Pearl Harbor like attack on the US again. Suppose we did have the draft where every young man and women would be URGED to sign up and fight for our country...can anyone fathom how long that would take to do something like that? To train and teach thousands of men and women to try and learn the latest technology of aircraft, marine, and army branches?? We cant just tell Private Bob to go hop in a B-29 and go bomb the hell out of some place...me, and a lot of people on this sight wouldnt have a CLUE on what to do first.
Another thing that relates to this. We have a memorial on campus here at ISU dedicated to the men and women fighting in current wars, conflicts and past conflicts and wars. The most polite way to pay respect while walking through this memorial is to take your hat off. Nothing pisses me off more than to see a young man or woman walk through that memorial and leave their hat on. How can you do this???
My family was never involved with any past conflict. My father was the only family member in the service for 3 or 4 years or so. I was never really brought up to speak of war unless it was related to historical talk. But I know well enough to pay respect for the people who served our country. Pearl Harbor is just another reminder of how many heroes were made that day. I can't ever thank them enough for doing what they did. Thank you to all who have served.
Ryan M.
To answer your question on who would do the job!
As of right now,
Army - 538,128
Navy - 332,832
Marine Corps - 194,912
Air Force - 328,439
Total DoD - 1,394,311
Coast Guard - 42,331
And if they brought a bunch of old bastages like me back in, we'd be ready in 2 hours tops! LOL
To answer your question on who would do the job!
As of right now,
Army - 538,128
Navy - 332,832
Marine Corps - 194,912
Air Force - 328,439
Total DoD - 1,394,311
Coast Guard - 42,331
And if they brought a bunch of old bastages like me back in, we'd be ready in 2 hours tops! LOL
Dave,
Well said. As far as being multi-national, I don't think out forefather kids were being taught spanish. They learned ENGLISH. That's a big problem for me. If and or when the s--t were to hit the fan,I'll bet all those guys would haul a$$ outta' here and go back to the old country.
Well said. As far as being multi-national, I don't think out forefather kids were being taught spanish. They learned ENGLISH. That's a big problem for me. If and or when the s--t were to hit the fan,I'll bet all those guys would haul a$$ outta' here and go back to the old country.
Tom-Like it or not, Spanish is almost important to learn anymore, especially in a career in agriculture or business. The amount of people who are in these fields dont speak English. Thats just how it is...
And what about all the immigrants from foreign countries who came here legally to better their lives?? Whos to say that they wouldnt pick up a gun and helmet and say "im ready to kick some ass??" If they have enough initiative to come here and legally become Americans, I GUARANTEE they would feel honored to serve their country.
Sometimes, you just gota look at it from a different point of view. Thats my .02. Take it or leave it
And what about all the immigrants from foreign countries who came here legally to better their lives?? Whos to say that they wouldnt pick up a gun and helmet and say "im ready to kick some ass??" If they have enough initiative to come here and legally become Americans, I GUARANTEE they would feel honored to serve their country.
Sometimes, you just gota look at it from a different point of view. Thats my .02. Take it or leave it
Ryan-
There isn't one thing wrong with people immigrating here the way it use to be done and was intended. When the constitution was upheld and enforced, like the days following WWII and unlike today, people that got here were thankful and ANXIOUS to learn english because it was the American way. That seems to be a way of the past now but the constitution still reads the same...it just isn't enforced for some reason. Immigrants are coming here now and bringing their country with them expecting us to move over and get out of their way. There have been many instances where other flags were flown ABOVE the American flag on American soil and, AS A NATION, this should not be tolerated but it is...and by our own government.
Why do we have the American flag? How do we plan to become multi-cultural under that flag and remain loyal to America as a nation? I don't see how it can be done. Like I said before, America has its own unique culture but the true Americans keep turning their heads and ignoring matters by allowing this invasion of "multi-culturalism" to continue. It's not "just how it is"...it's how we are allowing it to become. Go to any other nation of the world and try to shove America down their throats and see where you get. It would most likely be harsh treatment if not the death penalty.
Instead of "one nation under God" we are one nation that would sell our own mothers in a heartbeat if the price was right. All of this crap since Pearl Harbor has simply taken this great nation down to its knees mostly because of the dollar and the corruption needed to get it. What a shame with no one to blame but ourselves.
There isn't one thing wrong with people immigrating here the way it use to be done and was intended. When the constitution was upheld and enforced, like the days following WWII and unlike today, people that got here were thankful and ANXIOUS to learn english because it was the American way. That seems to be a way of the past now but the constitution still reads the same...it just isn't enforced for some reason. Immigrants are coming here now and bringing their country with them expecting us to move over and get out of their way. There have been many instances where other flags were flown ABOVE the American flag on American soil and, AS A NATION, this should not be tolerated but it is...and by our own government.
Why do we have the American flag? How do we plan to become multi-cultural under that flag and remain loyal to America as a nation? I don't see how it can be done. Like I said before, America has its own unique culture but the true Americans keep turning their heads and ignoring matters by allowing this invasion of "multi-culturalism" to continue. It's not "just how it is"...it's how we are allowing it to become. Go to any other nation of the world and try to shove America down their throats and see where you get. It would most likely be harsh treatment if not the death penalty.
Instead of "one nation under God" we are one nation that would sell our own mothers in a heartbeat if the price was right. All of this crap since Pearl Harbor has simply taken this great nation down to its knees mostly because of the dollar and the corruption needed to get it. What a shame with no one to blame but ourselves.
jchamberlin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,842
- Location
- Farmville, North Carolina
- displayname
- Jeremiah Chamberlin
Well put, Wayne.
Wayne,
I totally agree. I get that a lot of foreigners come here and make their own cultural values a priority...you know why? I live at a college. A college filled with people from China, Japan, and Mexico. Some of these kids are super proud to be here. Some unfortunately, are not. I agree. It totally pisses me off. Worst part about it is, I live with TWO non respectful immigrants. (It wasn't my choice, BTW.)
ISU staff seems to treat these people with more respect than their own Iowans who come here. Yea, I guarantee its all about the money. Im 100 percent sure it is. You cant go telling them what to do though, what to believe, because theyll go rat you out to a staff member saying you were harassing them. Try using the Constitution against them, they wont care. I know thats wrong that they dont care.
My point of all this is I agree with you Wayne. Im as diehard about America as you are. But if you dont believe me, try going to a present day university. You will see it first hand...again, I agree its wrong. But what does a guy do? Tell them off and get put in the pen, or give them respect just like every person should get?
"thats just how it is"... (IMHO)
I totally agree. I get that a lot of foreigners come here and make their own cultural values a priority...you know why? I live at a college. A college filled with people from China, Japan, and Mexico. Some of these kids are super proud to be here. Some unfortunately, are not. I agree. It totally pisses me off. Worst part about it is, I live with TWO non respectful immigrants. (It wasn't my choice, BTW.)
ISU staff seems to treat these people with more respect than their own Iowans who come here. Yea, I guarantee its all about the money. Im 100 percent sure it is. You cant go telling them what to do though, what to believe, because theyll go rat you out to a staff member saying you were harassing them. Try using the Constitution against them, they wont care. I know thats wrong that they dont care.
My point of all this is I agree with you Wayne. Im as diehard about America as you are. But if you dont believe me, try going to a present day university. You will see it first hand...again, I agree its wrong. But what does a guy do? Tell them off and get put in the pen, or give them respect just like every person should get?
"thats just how it is"... (IMHO)
Ryan-
I've had a Chapel Hill, NC address for most of the past 50 years which, as I'm sure you know is the home of the UNC Tarheels. I have even taken some classes through the years at UNC but never full time. I really think you'd be hard pressed finding a more liberal, multi-cultural place period across the entire nation...even California. You name it, we got it. The same goes for Durham, Raleigh, Cary, which together make up the research triangle of NC. Out of four surgeries I've had at the Durham VA hospital I managed to have one surgeon I could actually understand. Most of their surgeons come from Duke Medical Center which is right across the street. That's a good thing too; they are some of the best around from what I've been told.
Now Carrboro, NC, which is actually part of Chapel Hill is a sanctuary for illegals. I have a CH address but live closer to Carrboro. There is not any sign of proper immigration going on here yet you see Mexicans working everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if you could see them standing on the street corners using Google earth. And they can't get in trouble for being illegal with deportation out of the question.
In the days following Pearl Harbor look at how America dealt with Japanese immigrants. It didn't matter how many generations were represented either. Today we have a government attempting to sue states for their trying to uphold the constitution against illegals.
Splain that one to me Lucy!
I've had a Chapel Hill, NC address for most of the past 50 years which, as I'm sure you know is the home of the UNC Tarheels. I have even taken some classes through the years at UNC but never full time. I really think you'd be hard pressed finding a more liberal, multi-cultural place period across the entire nation...even California. You name it, we got it. The same goes for Durham, Raleigh, Cary, which together make up the research triangle of NC. Out of four surgeries I've had at the Durham VA hospital I managed to have one surgeon I could actually understand. Most of their surgeons come from Duke Medical Center which is right across the street. That's a good thing too; they are some of the best around from what I've been told.
Now Carrboro, NC, which is actually part of Chapel Hill is a sanctuary for illegals. I have a CH address but live closer to Carrboro. There is not any sign of proper immigration going on here yet you see Mexicans working everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if you could see them standing on the street corners using Google earth. And they can't get in trouble for being illegal with deportation out of the question.
In the days following Pearl Harbor look at how America dealt with Japanese immigrants. It didn't matter how many generations were represented either. Today we have a government attempting to sue states for their trying to uphold the constitution against illegals.
Splain that one to me Lucy!
Wayne,
Since I'm not a politician, and just a Cub Cadet mechanic
I can't give you a straight answer. You can't give the answer. Nobody can. Unless you are Chuck Norris
Its just how things ended up. I guess when we all go to the Big Man upstairs he can fill us in on why things are the way they are.
In the meantime...GO CYCLONES!
Since I'm not a politician, and just a Cub Cadet mechanic
In the meantime...GO CYCLONES!
