Let's put it this way, the more alternative fuel that's consumed, the more research will be put into the production. There IS a chemical-driven process of making ethanol being researched out there (read: significantly lower energy input) as well as the use of biomass (switchgrass, wood chips, etc) that lowers net energy input.
E-85
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kide
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Steve B:
You refer to "straight 87" and "E-10" . As far as I know, all gas marketed in Michigan for the past several years has been a blend containing at least 10% ethanol to, as was pointed out, replace the MBTE additive. Are they selling something called "E-10" in Illinois, along with an 87 octane with some other non-ethanol additive?
You refer to "straight 87" and "E-10" . As far as I know, all gas marketed in Michigan for the past several years has been a blend containing at least 10% ethanol to, as was pointed out, replace the MBTE additive. Are they selling something called "E-10" in Illinois, along with an 87 octane with some other non-ethanol additive?
Steve B,
Kendall is correct. If you recall, 2 years ago there was a huge increase in the price of ethanol due to a government mandate that all fuels switch the oxegenate from MBTE to 10% ethanol. During this time of year, you most likely can get 87 w/0 any ethanol, but after April 1, all gasoline has 10% ethanol, especially in the socialistic dictatorship of IL. (IL being a suburb of Chicago)
Kendall is correct. If you recall, 2 years ago there was a huge increase in the price of ethanol due to a government mandate that all fuels switch the oxegenate from MBTE to 10% ethanol. During this time of year, you most likely can get 87 w/0 any ethanol, but after April 1, all gasoline has 10% ethanol, especially in the socialistic dictatorship of IL. (IL being a suburb of Chicago)
kide
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Steve - you mean the alky's not needed in the winter?? Our pumps in MI all have the blend notice on them, AKAIK, the prices don't drop in the winter due to omission of it.. Like I said, it's been a lot of years that "gasohol" (10%) has been the standard fare in MI. I can't remember the last time I saw a pump without the notice, but as you point out, it would have been before the federal mandate on MBTE.
I've never attributed any small engine problems to the blended stuff - I've always assumed that the white residue in the bowls of pot metal carbs (when dry) was due to the chemical/electrolytic properties of the ethanol. In the old days, I'd get varnish - I don't see that much anymore in something recently used..
I've never attributed any small engine problems to the blended stuff - I've always assumed that the white residue in the bowls of pot metal carbs (when dry) was due to the chemical/electrolytic properties of the ethanol. In the old days, I'd get varnish - I don't see that much anymore in something recently used..
Kendell - That white powder residue is just normal oxidation of the aluminum. Being that it's contained in the bowl it builds up to where it shows more than you notice on the outside of something where it falls off.
kide
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KentucK - You'll see it in all different types of carbs, including the wonderful pot metal zinc-tin-crapola ones, but it's a lot more prevalent now than back when I'd tear a Stromberg 97 apart. Hmm - I've got three different Ford two barrels from the pre-50 era sitting on a shelf in the shop - I think I'll lift the lids and see what they look like. Investigative pictures to follow.. (I'll check the main jets to make sure these weren't set up for alky
)
I may have to dig out some old Holley's and Briggs 
I rebuilt the Briggs carbs about 12 years ago and stored'em back.
I took apart an old cast iron carb back maybe 24 years ago and didn't find any "white" powder in it but I did find the old red powder.
Now I need to go pull the carb off this 20 and get the crap out that I posted the pic of a couple days ago ... still trying to figure best way to get it out of the 5 gallon tank since it wouldn't drain out.
I rebuilt the Briggs carbs about 12 years ago and stored'em back.
I took apart an old cast iron carb back maybe 24 years ago and didn't find any "white" powder in it but I did find the old red powder.
Now I need to go pull the carb off this 20 and get the crap out that I posted the pic of a couple days ago ... still trying to figure best way to get it out of the 5 gallon tank since it wouldn't drain out.
I think you all must mean MTBE, not MBTE, never heard of MBTE....
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I know I didn't buy E85 but that stuff either had water in it or something because it didn't burn worth a crap. The 'blend' sticker was on the pump but I didn't think that it would hurt. I wouldnt dare pour E85 in any of my small engines at least not till I knew more about it or how to 'set up' for it.
kide
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Kraig: You mean it isn't methyl butyl tertiary ether (MBTE)???? You, of course, are correct it's Methyl tertiary-butyl ether (C5H12O) MTBE.... Either way, it's not supposed to be in our gasoline anymore, as it is apparently turning up in our ground water..
Kendell - Kathy said wally world didn't have a PM mag but they had plenty of wrestling rags ... naw I don't think it means that they sold out of the PM ... just don't know there is something other to read than wrestling rags ... crap should be banned from tv and magazines....
Kendell, I worked at an environmental company for 7 years, designing, building and servicing control panels for product recovery and water treat systems. I also was on a spill response team and had to help work on prepairing reports. I hated that job but I did learn a few things about chemicals. I still have my NIOSH pocket guide it comes in handy now and then when I want to look up a chemicals properties, i.e., dangers...
KENtucky, no, but I do like to know HOW dangerous it is.
I wonder if it lists cowtrack coffee....
FWIW- I checked around Sioux Falls tonight and the going rate for E85 was about $2.43, E10 was $2.95, and "regular" non-ethanol was $3.14. Diesel was $3.35, forgot to check what biodiesel was at the pump (not sure if they dispense it this time of year)
Kraig-
I've spent hours and hours training with those NIOSH books. (I'm operations-level HAZMAT certified, as well as gone through the BNSF railway HAZMAT incident training) Rule of thumb: if you can stick your thumb up and hide the whole scene, you're close enough! Some scary stuff out there!
Kraig-
I've spent hours and hours training with those NIOSH books. (I'm operations-level HAZMAT certified, as well as gone through the BNSF railway HAZMAT incident training) Rule of thumb: if you can stick your thumb up and hide the whole scene, you're close enough! Some scary stuff out there!
Brian, you can use e-85 in a small engine provided it has an adjustable carb and a brass float. You would also need to change to copper tubing for fuel lines. From there turn the mixture needles need to be turned out about 1 turn each. That gets you in the ball park. Yes, you will loose some hp, but if you were to bump up the compression, you can recover most of the power loss. E-85 typically has an octane rating of 100.
The premium vs regular debate is unless you have a high compression engine, you are wasting your money paying for premium. Premium and regular have the same amount of BTU's. L head engines are somewhere in the 5 to 1 compression ratio area, far below the need for increased octane rating.
Producing ethanol from corn doesn't take as much food out of the system as the anti ethanol crowd would like us to believe. The leftovers, also called distillers dry grain, are used in animal feed in place of corn. The market price for DDG's is high enough that it makes business sense now to sell it and use other fuels for the fermentation process.
Something else I've seen is when they mix E-85, either they aren't mixing it correctly, or the gasoline is settling out. I have seen several occasions where E-85 vehicles have come in to my shop and have had nearly 100% alcohol in them.
The premium vs regular debate is unless you have a high compression engine, you are wasting your money paying for premium. Premium and regular have the same amount of BTU's. L head engines are somewhere in the 5 to 1 compression ratio area, far below the need for increased octane rating.
Producing ethanol from corn doesn't take as much food out of the system as the anti ethanol crowd would like us to believe. The leftovers, also called distillers dry grain, are used in animal feed in place of corn. The market price for DDG's is high enough that it makes business sense now to sell it and use other fuels for the fermentation process.
Something else I've seen is when they mix E-85, either they aren't mixing it correctly, or the gasoline is settling out. I have seen several occasions where E-85 vehicles have come in to my shop and have had nearly 100% alcohol in them.
Its funny, everyone complains about the price per gallon but no one talks about the cost per month, or trip. Even though E-85 isn't the answer the research is looking good for additional sources of ethanol and more efficient vehicles. A 100 MPG SUV is right around the corner.
brendan,
The local News station did a report on E-85.
"KARE 11 took a road test to find out if ethanol really is a practical alternative to gas. We drove a flex-fuel Dodge Durango, one of about six million vehicles on the road today specially designed to run on either E85 or gasoline, and started with a full tank of pure E85. We drove until the tank was empty.
Using E85, we drove a total of 351.4 miles. The Durango's tank held 28 gallons. That means our fuel efficiency with E85 was 12.55 miles per gallon.
After the tank had been drained, we re-filled at a gas station in Wisconsin, where the regular unleaded contained no ethanol. We drove back to Minnesota, and with no ethanol in the tank, the car felt the same on the road. But the difference in miles per gallon was huge. With gas containing no ethanol, we averaged about 20.41 miles per gallon.
In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.
The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85.
Either way, the money you save at the pump does not offset the difference in mileage. At the time of our road test, E85 cost 19 percent less than gas. So with E85, you have to spend more money to drive the same distance."
Ethanol: Fuel of the future?
Ethanol Part II - Our E85 road test
brendan,
The local News station did a report on E-85.
"KARE 11 took a road test to find out if ethanol really is a practical alternative to gas. We drove a flex-fuel Dodge Durango, one of about six million vehicles on the road today specially designed to run on either E85 or gasoline, and started with a full tank of pure E85. We drove until the tank was empty.
Using E85, we drove a total of 351.4 miles. The Durango's tank held 28 gallons. That means our fuel efficiency with E85 was 12.55 miles per gallon.
After the tank had been drained, we re-filled at a gas station in Wisconsin, where the regular unleaded contained no ethanol. We drove back to Minnesota, and with no ethanol in the tank, the car felt the same on the road. But the difference in miles per gallon was huge. With gas containing no ethanol, we averaged about 20.41 miles per gallon.
In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.
The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85.
Either way, the money you save at the pump does not offset the difference in mileage. At the time of our road test, E85 cost 19 percent less than gas. So with E85, you have to spend more money to drive the same distance."
Ethanol: Fuel of the future?
Ethanol Part II - Our E85 road test
