Archive through September 30, 2012

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Frank A. Currier(Northern Maine)

A ball hone might have made those marks if it was damaged with some missing ends. One would have to ask just how deep are those marks ? can one catch a fingernail on them ?

 

[jbaker]

Don/Frank,,,The marks are very fine and I can not feel them with my nail, I wasn,t even sure if the camera was going to see them.
the engine was running fine except for the leaking head gasket.

 

[drglinski]

Had a weird dream last night- dreampt that we got dumped on with snow and my CC was still sitting with it's mower on- the blade was still sitting in the corner of the garage and the chains were waiting near it. I woke up and was glad that it wasn't snowing yet.

 

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jeff l baker
It just looks like the scratches are deep .Looks like a new piston ,did you have that engine rebuilt ? If it works good and you can keep up with oil usage . running them is all I hope for .

 

[hydroharry]

Mike P - I'm basically in agreement with Jeremiah and Gerry. I'm really leaning towards this being a valve problem, and hopefully just an adjustment problem. You'll have to study either the Kohler or CC Engine manual on how to adjust the valves. And since I suspect you've never checked and adjusted the valves on this engine before you're gonnna need a breather kit (which will come with a couple gaskets, funky mesh filter, rubber spacer). You have to remove the breather cover so you can check the valve clearances. Now, it's your choice here but if it were me besides checking and adjusting the valves I'd also pull the head, de-carbon the piston surface and head, get a good look at your cylinder walls, and replace the head gasket. I know you said the previous owner replaced the head gasket, but what caused the head gasket to blow in the first place? Did it blow because the valves were out of adjustment and now you're encountering the same problem. Do you know if he de-carboned the head when he replaced the gasket? Did he torque, run the engine, and then re-torque the head bolts? If I were you I'd be alot more comfortable knowing what the inside of the cylinder and head looked like, especially if the valve adjustments are off. I have always considered a good tuneup on these Kohlers to include replacing points, condensor, spark plug, checking and adjusting the valve clearances, and de-carboning the head and piston. Kohler recommends the head decarboning every 500 hours (which is probably every 5 to 10 years for most people). I don't know their recommendation on the other items but I would think at least that often. I'm sure hopeful that adjusting your valves will resolve the problem but I'd just like to know your cylinder and head are good, and that backfiring hasn't blown the head gasket.

Dan G - if I were you and had that dream, I'd be running around trying to find another CC unit to have on the ready all the time, just in case it does snow.

Jeff B - sure looks like cross hatching to me since the marks appear to be quite evenly spaced and repeat in the same spots as you look down the cylinder wall. And I believe not being able to feel them with your nail is a good thing. Now, I don't like that carbon on the top of the cylinder wall. I can't see the top of the piston but if the carbon is built up in the same area it will start wearing away your piston and eventually fail. So I'd definitely make sure you get all the carbon cleaned off from the top of the cylinder wall, top fo the piston, and in the area of the valves, etc.

 

[jbaker]

Guys, as Harry said the lines are all uniform now that I look at it, I have never had the engine open and don,t recall if the p.o. said anything about it.
It ran strong before I pulled it and it only had the head gasket problem for a short time, Money is tight and I hate to break the pan gasket.
It may or may not have balance gears still.

Harry the carbon build up is not bad but will be cleaned up with the rest. I am shaving the head (Matt G's way) tonight.

My local cub dealer was out of stock on the head gasket so I am going to a local green store in the morning to get one.

will post pics tomorrow..



Wayne what do you think??

 

[wshytle]

Jeff-

I'm not that well versed in the rebuilding department yet but I do think the cross hatching you see is too little to have been done by a flex hone. Dennis will chime in and verify the condition of the bore I'd bet. Carbon can scratch the bore as well as actually gouge the piston under certain conditions. Don may be onto something about a broken ring spinning but I just don't know. I personally don't see how something can spin that fast as the piston does its travel.

Like I said, Dennis will chime in with some good ideas I'm sure.

Did this engine have balance gears? Now would be a good time to rid it of them if not.

 

[hydroharry]

Jeff - don't go to the Green store for the head gasket. I did that for a carb kit and it cost me nearly double. I'd try another local store - if you have a good NAPA they often carry this stuff, and many of their parts are actually OEM Kohler (I know most of the carb kits are, not sure about the head gasket). If you don't have a NAPA that carries this stuff then try one of the "off Red" dealers (like W-Horse). As for pulling the balance gears (if it has them), well if you're this far you just as well spring for the pan gasket and do it - but the pan gasket has to be correct for the cub version block. I think the Green guys and the other guys use that larger pan gasket since they have the mounting base with ears, but not sure.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Wyatt C. I haven't found out anything yet as far as differences. Now the only difference is the different housing and the charge pump.

Gotta get to bed early tonight... Work beckons tomorrow morning.

 

[pfunk]

Don T. My wife and I insured our Cub Cadets through Hagerty. It was a whole lot cheaper than going through our homeowners and they seem like a great company to deal with.

 

[tbradshaw]

Charlie, You say that the rubber pieces that slip onto the metal fuel line for the older cadets are still available? I noticed the part number in the photo that you posted, is it a cadet or kholer number? I have contacted a kholer dealer in the area and am going to call him back tomorrow with my model and spec numbers to see if these items can bet gotten directly from kholer. For anyone reading this, my son took apart my original without my supervision. Can anyone send me a couple of photos showing how the choke and throttle cables are run and hooked up? I am having trouble figuring out how the throttle cable hooks into the disc on the governor mechanism. Thanks again for the help and advice.

 

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Paul E. Funk

I think they will let me used a video , They are getting back to me on that.I hate to have to do a list of every think I have in my shop. Dang that would take days and I have a 14 K governor to replace for a friend .I need to haul the 123 in and see what parts Frank C will send over here. Got a call earlier tonight for a guy wanting me to buy his 4 Cubs. Seems one has a creeper and I don`t have one yet ! Can someone tell me about the UD- 6 ? Is it just a two speed or has it more speeds ? and what cub does it fit?

 

[mpatterson]

Why are you guys suggesting to rid the engine of the balance gears? I missed something, why are these not desired anymore? What was the purpose of them putting them in there in the first place if no one likes engines with them?


Is it worth taking the 241 I am having issues with to an engine shop to have them check out the valves and the head or is that money wasted?

 

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Mike Patterson

The balance gears were added to help cut down on vibration . I think it has been proven that when they fail they can put a window in a perfectly good engine . Take no chances I say .

Thomas C. Bradshaw

I can take a few better pictures in the am if you need me to.

Thomas C. Bradshaw

Just find a piece of vacuum line and cut yourself off a piece !

 

[lpalma]

Don T

The ud6 if for an original only.It gives it 6 speeds 8 if you count Rev.

 

[digger]

Tom B.
Fuel Line Sleeve PN/ IH-144526-H1 - KH-220547-S

 

[ksharpe]

Mike Patterson – hang in there, these guys will help you get it running again. I’m sorry that I personally don’t have anything to offer you other than IMHO if your funds are limited, don’t take it to a shop yet. I bet they guys can coach you through the mechanical issues. If it turns out that the problem is beyond your tools and / or ability then take it in and open you wallet.

All who have helped Mike, I send my thanks, not just for trying to help him, but for my education. I am not in the same tough and frustrating position as he is, but I have learned a lot from your input and his suffering! This forum is great!

Wyatt C – I have to agree that just looks weird. I have never seen a channel machined like that. I have to wonder if a machine or tool was down on the production line and they found a (inferior, but functional) work around to keep the line running. The “holes” appear to be well positioned on the arc, which is curious. How consistent is the depth of the series of “holes”? I’m interested to know more about it.

Donald T – “THREE IS NO WAY my cubs will get parted wile I suck air” that quote just kicked my butt- fell out of my chair… Thanks I needed a good laugh today! As for your insurance I think a separate agreed upon value policy for the tractors may be the way to go. A buddy of mine is WAY into older Porsche cars and that is the way he went. The cost was pretty reasonable, it seems the insurance company understands the value the owners place on there “toys” and balances the risk of damage in the pricing.

Gary Idle – keep working on Mason and he may someday start mowing the grass for you.

 

[hydroharry]

Mike P - I'm really thinking you have a valve out of adjustment, and you can adjust them yourself. It's easy enough if you have a feeler gauge. I know you can get the carb off and back on without to much trouble, so I'm certain you can get the breather (valve) cover off and reinstalled correctly. The service manual will give you enough details on adjusting the valves, and it shows a diagram of breather cover parts. When you put the breather cover back don't over-tighten the nut holding it on. It just gets snugged on. Have a good look at the nut holding the cover on before you remove it so you can tell about when you have it back correctly. Make sure you get a gasket kit for the breather. If yours has been on there as long as I think it has it's gonna leak oil unless you have new gaskets, and if you over tighten the nut on the cover you'll just distort the cover and make the oil leak worse. Get the breather gasket kit. If this doesn't solve your backfire and rough high speed then you'll have to remove the head and see if the gasket it blown or if you have another issue. At this point is when you may have to consider a shop, but you can post some pics on here before going that route, just like Jeff B just did with his blown head gasket.

Now, about the balance gears - 1st off your K241 won't have them as far as I know. I believe they were only used in 12hp K301, 14hp K321 and 16hp K341 engines. They call them gernade gears since when they let go they usually put a window in the block, as Don T noted. I had thought for the longest time that if Kohler put them in there they had their reason and I re-installed them in my K341. I found out later that Kohler eventually quite putting them in the engines and didn't change anything else - so, I now wish I didn't have them in mine, but I haven't pulled it apart yet to remove them. My K341 doesn't shake that much and I have to think it is as a result of the various rebuild parts I used along with the under sized crank - am I lucky? Well I guess time will tell.

 

[fcurrier]

Jeff:

It became clear this morning. The deck is sitting behind the tractor and the hanger is just leaning against both of them. What looked like a belt between them is shadow.

 

[jbaker]

Frank, I believe your correct. But the shadow sure did look like a belt hooked up