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Archive through October 31, 2016
- Thread starter kmcconaughey
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Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
rvanmersbergen
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- Ray Van Mersbergen
Ed,scrap those other ideas amd become my neighbor, you wont have to deal with cold or snow, and you would have a fellow cub man next door!....just saying!
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- Jason Wiggins
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
ED,
You can't just set the carb by the number of turns, that just gets you started.
Get it good and warmed up, then at WOT run the main jet down until it stumbles, counting turns....then back it out until it loads up, counting turns. Now split the difference and back it out an additional 1/4 turn.
Do the same for the idle jet, but at closed throttle. It probably won't load up when you back it out, so run it in until it stumbles, back it out until it just runs well, then go another 1/8 turn.
If done successfully, you should be able to take the engine (warm) from idle to WOT in one quick push of the throttle lever with no stumbling coming off idle......if it does, back out the idle screw another 1/8 turn.
You can't just set the carb by the number of turns, that just gets you started.
Get it good and warmed up, then at WOT run the main jet down until it stumbles, counting turns....then back it out until it loads up, counting turns. Now split the difference and back it out an additional 1/4 turn.
Do the same for the idle jet, but at closed throttle. It probably won't load up when you back it out, so run it in until it stumbles, back it out until it just runs well, then go another 1/8 turn.
If done successfully, you should be able to take the engine (warm) from idle to WOT in one quick push of the throttle lever with no stumbling coming off idle......if it does, back out the idle screw another 1/8 turn.
Something I've done is use "starting fluid". NOT the spray can!
I've filled a spray bottle with gasoline and removed air cleaner cover and sprayed directly into throat of carburetor, choke and throttle wide open for this. Then close choke/throttle to your desired setting. If you have the side panels on, you'd have to take off and then put back on or run without. I don't suggest the spray can at all as will most everyone here. My 1200 or 1450 may have cranked a little more compared to warmer weather, but never killed a battery. I'm betting the carburetor is not set correctly. Try a new plug, clean points and setting carburetor to Steve's suggestion and see her fire right up!
I've filled a spray bottle with gasoline and removed air cleaner cover and sprayed directly into throat of carburetor, choke and throttle wide open for this. Then close choke/throttle to your desired setting. If you have the side panels on, you'd have to take off and then put back on or run without. I don't suggest the spray can at all as will most everyone here. My 1200 or 1450 may have cranked a little more compared to warmer weather, but never killed a battery. I'm betting the carburetor is not set correctly. Try a new plug, clean points and setting carburetor to Steve's suggestion and see her fire right up!
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Ed C - I agree with what Steve is saying about setting your carb, but I've also found most hard starting problems with Kohlers that seem to run ok after they are running, is the points setting and timing. You really can't just set the points at .020. That's a good starting point but you have to check the timing and adjust them to the point the timing is correct. Your 1650 should start within 10-15 secs of cranking in normal temps and 30-45 secs in cold temps. (The earlier Kohlers with the Starter/Generator start alot quicker than your 1650 K341AQS engine with the little integrated starter).
There should be info in the FAQ's or if you can't find it there then Matt G has an excellent "How To" on his home web page which you can get to from his profile or right here http://www.mgonitzke.net/cubcadet.html
There should be info in the FAQ's or if you can't find it there then Matt G has an excellent "How To" on his home web page which you can get to from his profile or right here http://www.mgonitzke.net/cubcadet.html
Steve B.-
I'm just curious as to why you suggested 87 octane over high test. I was told years ago by an old man, an excellent small engine mechanic, to use high test in all of my small engines. I know from experience it helps keep the head cleaner. I've also heard high test doesn't have ethanol which we all know is an evil thing for small engines. One other thing is high test has a longer shelf life but I've never kept gas long enough to have any issues there.
Just curious...
.
I'm just curious as to why you suggested 87 octane over high test. I was told years ago by an old man, an excellent small engine mechanic, to use high test in all of my small engines. I know from experience it helps keep the head cleaner. I've also heard high test doesn't have ethanol which we all know is an evil thing for small engines. One other thing is high test has a longer shelf life but I've never kept gas long enough to have any issues there.
Just curious...
.
mfrade
Well-known member
Wayne S., my thoughts on "high test" fuel.
A- it last no longer than regular. High test has a higher octane rating to suppress "detonation" which can cause engine damage. If you hear your engine knocking then 'high test" could help your situation. Otherwise your just wasting money.
B- It was just released in yesterdays news that nearly 85% of folks driving cars today believe that "high test" is somehow better for their car and a requirement, yet the OEM's state specifically to run the vehicle on regular fuel for optimum results.
It really has become an urban legend that high test is so much better for your engine when the reality is that it's the same fuel with combustion inhibitors to control fuel explosion speed/rate. If you know your engine is running compression say 10 1/2 to 1 or above then by all means investigate the need to run a higher octane fuel, otherwise run the lowest octane fuel you can.
p.s., I also add fuel conditioner to my fuel and keep it for months at a time. Here in MA we don't have much choice in the fuels available, I cannot get E-85 for instance, so I haven't had to deal with that much methanol in the yard equipment or daily drivers. But the hot rod engine compression ratio is 13 to 1, I blend methanol race fuel @ a 50 / 50 ratio to gas so I don't have any serious knocking and it runs so much cooler. Of course the carbs and fuel system have to be built to handle these conditions but it's relatively easy to convert.
A- it last no longer than regular. High test has a higher octane rating to suppress "detonation" which can cause engine damage. If you hear your engine knocking then 'high test" could help your situation. Otherwise your just wasting money.
B- It was just released in yesterdays news that nearly 85% of folks driving cars today believe that "high test" is somehow better for their car and a requirement, yet the OEM's state specifically to run the vehicle on regular fuel for optimum results.
It really has become an urban legend that high test is so much better for your engine when the reality is that it's the same fuel with combustion inhibitors to control fuel explosion speed/rate. If you know your engine is running compression say 10 1/2 to 1 or above then by all means investigate the need to run a higher octane fuel, otherwise run the lowest octane fuel you can.
p.s., I also add fuel conditioner to my fuel and keep it for months at a time. Here in MA we don't have much choice in the fuels available, I cannot get E-85 for instance, so I haven't had to deal with that much methanol in the yard equipment or daily drivers. But the hot rod engine compression ratio is 13 to 1, I blend methanol race fuel @ a 50 / 50 ratio to gas so I don't have any serious knocking and it runs so much cooler. Of course the carbs and fuel system have to be built to handle these conditions but it's relatively easy to convert.
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Ed C - it was late last nite when I posted about how quick your engine should start and I dreamt about it all nite. Your 1650 should start within 5-10 secs in normal temps and 15 secs in cold temps. Running the starter any longer than 15 secs risks damage to the starter and you should let it cool for 60 secs before trying again. If your 1650 is well tuned it really should start within about 5 secs in normal temps. In cold temps the little starter is alot slower and the engine will almost groan or you may even think your battery is weak, but it still should start in 15 secs at most. I really think you probably have a points/timing issue.
(And for those of you with the older Kohlers with Starter/Gens they should start in 0-5 secs at normal temps. I used to say they would start "almost" before you turn the key but that is a little unbelievable, although almost true. When it's really cold they turn more slowly, especially the hydro tractors, but still should start in 10 secs at most. You might have to try 2 or 3 times - waiting about 15-30 secs in between).
These times are just "my opinion" of a well tuned Kohler. If your's doesn't start within the times I noted then you may have a points/timing issue, spark plug, gas, battery, carb, head gasket, valve, on and on, issue - or you live in the artic.
(And for those of you with the older Kohlers with Starter/Gens they should start in 0-5 secs at normal temps. I used to say they would start "almost" before you turn the key but that is a little unbelievable, although almost true. When it's really cold they turn more slowly, especially the hydro tractors, but still should start in 10 secs at most. You might have to try 2 or 3 times - waiting about 15-30 secs in between).
These times are just "my opinion" of a well tuned Kohler. If your's doesn't start within the times I noted then you may have a points/timing issue, spark plug, gas, battery, carb, head gasket, valve, on and on, issue - or you live in the artic.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Wayne,
Mike nailed my thoughts on high test almost to a tee.
BTW, it is false to think all high test is ethanol free.......far from it, most has the same 10% ethanol all of the other grades do.
At 7:1 or 8:1 our Kohlers just don't knock on 87 octane........and anything else beyond that becomes "extra" not "necessary".
Mike nailed my thoughts on high test almost to a tee.
BTW, it is false to think all high test is ethanol free.......far from it, most has the same 10% ethanol all of the other grades do.
At 7:1 or 8:1 our Kohlers just don't knock on 87 octane........and anything else beyond that becomes "extra" not "necessary".
nbextermueller
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- Nic Bextermueller
My club has a bunch of guys that run out and buy 110-115 octane race fuel to put in the stock tractors. They also mistakenly think it makes HP. It actually hurts HP significantly because it burns so much slower.
I've told plenty of new guys to switch to 87 for best results with non-high compression engines.
I've told plenty of new guys to switch to 87 for best results with non-high compression engines.
dylschmidt
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- Darryl Schmidt
Octane
IMHO;it isn't about if "high test" is better or not. each state may be diff, but here in Minnesota the 91 octane is the only fuel that dose not contain alcohol...87 has and 93 has...it is the alcohol that evaporates early leaving a mess in carbs....
my understanding from a friend of mine in the petro bus is that 91 octane is clean from ethanal..
I started using 91 a few years ago and have far less carb issues..
just my 2 cents..
IMHO;it isn't about if "high test" is better or not. each state may be diff, but here in Minnesota the 91 octane is the only fuel that dose not contain alcohol...87 has and 93 has...it is the alcohol that evaporates early leaving a mess in carbs....
my understanding from a friend of mine in the petro bus is that 91 octane is clean from ethanal..
I started using 91 a few years ago and have far less carb issues..
just my 2 cents..
Only time I use 93 octane, in my 5 IH Cub Cadets, is in the fall. I drain and fill them back up with ethanol-free 93 octane before sitting for the winter. I found one station in my county that sells it. Wish somebody had 87 octane ethanol-free available. I never use any fuel stabilizer and never have had any carburetor issues.
The Conoco station that sells the ethanol-free 93 octane fuel will lower the price of it to be the same as 87 octane the day there is a car show or cruise night in town. Pretty darn cool them doing this.
My 'garage queen' 2004 Supercharged Monte Carlo SS says right on the inside of the fuel door to use "Premium Fuel Only". When gas prices were almost double what they are now, I ran 87 octane in it with no decrease in power or mileage. Did not make it spark knock either. When I DO drive it, I tend to lay my foot in it.
And to finish on topic...may do my fall garden plowing this weekend.
The Conoco station that sells the ethanol-free 93 octane fuel will lower the price of it to be the same as 87 octane the day there is a car show or cruise night in town. Pretty darn cool them doing this.
My 'garage queen' 2004 Supercharged Monte Carlo SS says right on the inside of the fuel door to use "Premium Fuel Only". When gas prices were almost double what they are now, I ran 87 octane in it with no decrease in power or mileage. Did not make it spark knock either. When I DO drive it, I tend to lay my foot in it.
And to finish on topic...may do my fall garden plowing this weekend.
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I run 93 octane in all my small engines. Only because I only have one 5 gallon can and need 93 for my chain saws. For awhile I brought my 1 gallon 2 stroke can and the 5 gallon when I needed a fill but its much easier to only deal with one can at a time, as well as feeling kind of silly with a less then $3 fill, kind of like when I was in High school and had little cash even if gas was under a dollar.
dylschmidt
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In Minnesota 87 and 93 have alcohol..
Only 91 is alcohol free
Only 91 is alcohol free
I run regular 87 in any and all of my equipment, with MMO. If anything will be sitting for more than a week or 2 I at least run the carb dry. No problems yet. Even in spring after sitting all winter, although I empty the tank(s) and mix in my truck to use up if I left any in there. I can't find ethanol free gas too well here in northern IL. And usually they jack the price up anyway.
Ah, the good ole 1200.
Ah, the good ole 1200.
