Archive through October 18, 2012

[jzimmerman]

128- no spark

No question this will be basic stuff for most of you. I thought it would be for me.

Jumped on the 128 and it wouldn't start. Quickly found no spark. There was power to both sides of the coil. I checked the points, which appeared to be closed up. Fine, haven't changed the points in years, time to do that.

After the points were changed and gapped, still no spark. Changed the coil, still no spark. Bypassed the coil/points lead, no spark. Used a different spark plug wire, no spark. Along the way I installed a new plug which ain't firing either.

The points look like they are opening correctly, and the coil is new. Any help you can offer would be much appreciated. I need to cut the grass one or two more times before putting the snow thrower on.

Some clear thinking is needed here, my head appears to be stuck up my butt.


Zimm

 

[dtanner]

Frank C

When do you plan on pulling the breather cover to check for a stuck valve ? I bet that is all that is wrong with that 169

I`am feeling much better toady and hope that I can get in my shop in the am. I have so much to do !

 

[kmcconaughey]

Jeremiah, the Cub with the copper fuel lines is Dan Hoefler's. I have a rubber gas hose on the Killer Kohler in my 125 and a clear gas hose on my Original. Both use the OEM style sediment bowl. Just curious, is the fuel filter you are using specified for automotive use or for small engine use. It DOES make a difference. An automotive fuel filter requires a fair amount of pressure to move the fuel through it. A small engine filter will gravity flow through it.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Joe, when you have the key in the ON position, do you have any voltage on the + terminal on the coil? If not, your ignition switch could be bad, or you have a bad electrical connection somewhere.

 

[pfunk]

Joe, if the voltage doesn't drop to zero on the negative side of the coil with the points closed, you're not getting good contact through the points. Try dragging a piece of paper through the points a couple of times. Even new points generally have a film on them that prevents good contact.

 

[bjamison]

Starter/Generator Question:

A couple of times, I've hopped on my fine 109 and hit the switch. The starter/generator sound like it's turning, but the pulley - belt and engine aren't turning. I hop off the tractor, turn the engine via s/g belt/pulley and rotate the engine off what I think is the max compression stroke (if that makes sense or is possible). Hop back on the tractor, turn the key, the s/g spins the engine and it cranks like a champ.

I think I've got a pretty good battery, though I haven't tested it for voltage.

Have I got something I need to worry about or do you think I've just got a weak battery?

Another quick question:

What causes an exhaust valve to stick? Is it carbon built-up? Is there a way to prevent this or at some point in the life of an engine it happens due to age? I don't have any issues with this, am curious about how a stuck valve comes to be in the first place.

Frank C - very nice looking 169!!

 

[jchamberlin]

Bill: Sounds like the S/G pulley is slipping on the belt.

Joe: Have you put a meter across the points, that is from ground to the negative side of the coil as you crank the engine? You should see the needle jumping to nearly 12 volts every time the the points open. Also, have you replaced the condenser with "known good" or new?

Kraig: Fuel Filter is Kohler, it is large and flows well: you'll see in the picture.

 

[hydroharry]

Bill (more questions than answers) - you wrote that the S/G "sounds" like it's turning, but the pulley, belt and engine are not. Jeremiah is suggesting the pulley is turning but the belt is slipping. If this is the case your S/G would make a sort of "whirring" sound, and you'd resolve it by putting more tension on the belt. If the S/G is "attempting" but not turning the pulley, belt and engine, then I think it would sound more like "errrrrrah'" If this is the case you might be starting to develop a flat spot or dirty spot on the brushes in the S/G, but honestly, before I'd worry about that I really lean toward your battery getting weak. These Kohlers do need a strong battery, at least 275 CCA and I prefer 350CCA. If yours happens to be one of those that's less than 200 CCA it could still be a good battery but just not have quite enough power to really start turning the engine (works ok on a lawn tractor but not a garden tractor). If you happen to have around 250CCA then the first thing I'd do is swap it with your off brand tractor (assuming that has a decent battery) and see if it makes a difference. If it does then I'd be pretty certain you need a newer stronger battery. If your off brand tractor doesn't have a batter you can swap with the 109, then next time this happens try using jumper cables to the 109 battery from your truck. If it starts right up then I'd feel pretty certain your current battery just isn't providing the power it used to. I'm not promoting where to get your battery but WallyMart has a 350CCA usually for less than $30, and it's usually just $3 more than their 250 or 275 version. And if they are out of the 350CCA wait till they get them in. Or Charlie sells a brand that seems to last nearly forever according to his description - last time I looked I think he said more than 5 years on a QL unit and starts the tractor even at 37degrees BELOW - now that's a strong battery, and it must be a "good'n". Some people like the Sears Diehard, but when I looked you had to get their "Gold" version and that was over $50 (and I don't think its probably any better than Wally's). NAPA is supposed to have a good one but don't quite know where they price it - and of course you probably have other local suppliers you frequent. Let us know what you do and how you make out - but my guess is your battery is just starting to get weak and as the weather gets colder it eventually won't start for you if you just keep using it.

Joe Z - figured I'd put in my guess on your "no spark" situation. I'd lean mostly in Jeremiah's direction of the condensor, but before you replace it with a known good one I'd still wiggle the wire connector on the starter switch terminals, or even pull it off and push it back on a couple times. Dang things have a habit of corroding a little, but if you're like alot of us on here, we have some crusty'ness on our edges too.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Didn't mean to dance around Charlie's rules. Just trying to tease Frank C. with his 169. This 147's future is already pretty much decided upon. I'd never try and talk Frank out of that tractor. Should I ever decide that I really needed another 16 horse Cub Cadet then I'd simply find my own or buy another Quietline 1650. Right now I don't need anymore headaches with getting things running or helping anyone else out with their hydros. There are enough experts here to help someone so I can just take some steps back and watch the fun.

Y'all have a terrifically wonderful day and a happy fun-filled weekend. I'm going to work.

The Monkees

 

[dfrisk]

BRIAN B. - re "Fuel bowl leaks", not sure if you were having leaks from the sediment bowl/fuel valve on the gas tank, or the float bowl on the carb. Cork is a MISERABLR gasket material, it's porous, little bits of tree bark, a natural material also porous pressed together with some type of binder to hold it together. Cork gaskets ALL leak eventually. A rubber or other man-made material will seal much better for much longer once installed properly. Look up Richard Christensen's posts about replacing the cork hydro gasket. ANYHOW, Neoprene has short term resistance to gasoline & oil products, plain old Buna-N rubber is better, and cheaper, and the best for those applications is VITON, and also more expensive. There's gasket material chemical resistance charts all over the Internet that compare suitability of gasket materials for specific uses.

The sediment bulb by design is prone to leakage, and the screen is not really all that good of a filter. An in-line filter is MUCH better, has finer media in them for filtering. All my CC's run in-line filters and just fuel shut-off valves on the tanks, and either rubber fuel lines, except the #72 KRAIG posted pic's of back a page, it was plumbed with 3/8" Braided Stainless Steel hoses & AN fittings. Yeah, it's over-kill for a garden tractor, but it looks cool! ;-) The tank threads are 1/8" NPT, and a short closed nipple, maybe 1/2-3/4" long threads into the threaded hole of the tank, and probably sticks up off the bottom of the tank maybe 1/8 inch, more or less. A gasoline resistant thread sealer should be used on that fitting, and on the sediment bowl or gas valve attached to the nipple.

If your leak was at the carb float bowl, the factory float bowl was stamped/drawn aluminum, very soft, and once tightened, and removed, the bottom surface of the bowl took a set against the force of the screw in the bottom that held the bowl to the carb, and will not seal again unless you carefully tap the bottom flat again. I haven't tried one yet, but Dave Kirk sells a stamped steel carb float bowl than is much stronger/stiffer, and should be able to be reused without reworking the bottom of the bowl.

At today's going rate of $4/gal for gas, nobody can afford to waste & leak gas. It's bad enough to lose it from evaporation!

About 30 yrs ago I got tired of the leaing sediment bowl, poor fuel filtering and converted my #72 over to rubber fuel lines and a BIG in-line fuel filter that was chrome-plated diecast sealing a clear pyrex glass sleeve with o-rings and a cleanable/replacable nylon mesh sleeve filter that was fine enough to filter WATER out of gasoline. That was the end of my fuel leaks, dirt in the carbs, runability problems. I've got similar fuel systems on EVERY IH tractor I depend on to run now. As IH said in all their operator's manuals, "Buy clean fuel - Keep it clean".

 

[dfrisk]

BILL J. - Yes, it's possible for the ACR compression release to not activate and cause hard cranking. And I fix it the same way you do, turn the engine over by hand with the S/G pulley until it's past the compression stroke.

If your S/G & battery turn the S/G pulley inside the belt against a K241 with full compression I don't think there's too much wrong with your tractor. But Harry's correct, Bigger is better on batteries, I've been running 500+ CCA car batteries in my NF CC's for 30 yrs. The WF tractors with the battery under the seat your stuck with only 350 CCA as the largest that will fit without major surgery.

 

[bjamison]

Not sure if this should go somewhere else, but...

What is your favorite ag tire for these IHCC's.

I have a set of Firestone 23 deg tires on a tractor - which I have always thought to be the best ag tire you could get - and they make the tractor go like a Jeep, no need for a diff lock! Problem is - they have not held-up. They seem soft and yet cracked. Also, they aren't holding their diameter. They are balooning to a larger diameter with air pressure - sort of going round rather than staying relatively flat across the tread face. They are very pricey too.

I've got another tractor with Carsile Tru Power tires on them. They seem great and to me will do anything the Firestones will - at a lower cost.

I've got yet another tractor with Carsile Super Lug tires. These tires are old, hard and seemly worn out! But, I still get great traction, even when moldboard plowing. The tire shoulders are somewhat rounded vs the Firestones or Tru Power.

I run ag's with wheel weights year round and see no negative effect on the yard during the summer when mowing vs turf tires.

It also seems to me like you could get these ag's in 2 or 4 ply. Do you have a preference for either?

So I'm probably going to buy a set of ag tires for my IHCC fleet - I'd just like to know your thoughts on ag tires in addition to my own experience.

 

[nbextermueller]

My favorite tires are the Firestone 23's. Yes, the Miller compound is a little soft, but they grip nicely. They shouldn't be aired up past 10psi. That will keep them nice and flat and smooth out the ride.

The Carlise Tru Powers suck. Yes they work, but I just spin out ALOT more than Firestones. The Super Lugs are the only comparable tire to the 'stones. But they are NLA. I have Deman Ditch Diggers that are also NLA, and they are a hair better than the Tru Powers.

Vogel TT's are pretty good but steep enough in the lug. And some of the china tires are well, junk.

Soooo that my 2 cents.

 

[jbaker]

Marlin I meant no offense just having fun,
Where do you get all you little smiley clipart?

Bill this is my guess, the carbon build up comes from the cheaper oil and using MMO helps a bunch

 

[dcmay]

I was picking up leaves with my old EZ Vac and picked up a rock.Now I only have half of an impeller.Talk about a vibration.Wow!Probably will have to make a new one as I don't know the model and understand EZ Vac is gone.The leaves are still falling and I my have to chop them.

 

[jchamberlin]

For Harry's benefit, and so Dennis can add his commentary, I offer pictures of the fuel line setup I'm running on my 149. Note the sediment in the bowl with probably not even 30 hours on the tractor --I've only used it for 1/2 a season, and it was cleaned out with muriatic acid before the season started. I'm running premium with a shot of MMO. All hoses, clamps, and filter were new at the start of the season.

Tank outlet with replacement bowl from CC Specialties:

Top View of Fuel Line with Filter from Kohler:

Inlet at the Carburetor:

Now everyone can tell me what mistakes I made, how I could have done it better, question me about why I did it this way, and tell me how they have done it, or would do it.

Edit: Fuel Bowl is steel version from Kirk Engines, it works well. The original did not have much strength left and was a source of leaks.

 

[digger]

Jeremiah C.
What's that rusty lookin gunk ring in the fuel bowl?
Change that filter out to the smaller gravity flow type. I never did have much faith in that bigger style for small gas engines.
Just my 3 cents.

 

[lpalma]

Jeremiah,
Why not do away with the glass bowl setup and use a type that was used originally on a 149?? Pull the screen off. Still use the filter that Charlie recommended.
Just my 2 cents.
I see Charlies price is higher...

 

[bbranstetter]

Dennis,

Can't say I disagree with anything you had to say. For what ever reason I've just never had too much problem with the fuel bowl on mine after switching back to cork, maybe 'cork in apperance' would be a better way of saying it. The ones I get from TSC or some thing like that, don't seem to have the noticeable chunks of cork like you would think. They appear to be denser and light tan in color. I'm not really sure if there treated with a chemical or not but they really seam to hold up well. It might be that there not cork at all but they sure make me think of it. I'm going to dig around and see if I can find one and post a picture.

 

[hydroharry]

Jeremiah - well, I agree with the others but will throw in my extra 1/2 cent - I suspect your problem is due to the gravity required to fill the fuel bowl, flow thru that big Kohler filter and then overcome the upward bend in the fuel line. It's just to much when the fuel level is near the bottom of the tank. I would do away with the glass bowl and go back to original style shutoff, change the filter to the smaller L/G style, but in addition standardize your clamps to all the same style, and when you convert the filter you can get that bend out of your spark plug wire and route it over the top of the fuel line. With this said, my bigger suggestion is to do something with your gas tank. You may have cleaned it out but it's certainly still rusting. Someone out there has a coating that will seal all the rust inside the tank, either that or get another tank. And besides all this stuff, are you sure we're looking at pics of a 149? The heat shield appears to be from an early narrow frame, and the coil seems to be mounted way up high.