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Archive through December 11, 2008
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jbaker
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- jeff l baker
Kraig thanks for the pto response to my qa36 on my 128 not disengaging. I do not have a pto brake and tried adjusting the clutch any idea how thick new wear buttons are i am wondering if mine are worn to the point of not pulling in far enough
Jeff, going from memory and from eying it up, the fiber PTO wear button is about 3/16" to 1/4" thick, I think it's closer to 3/16". Hope that wishy/washy response helps.
PAUL - It's odd that IH didn't update the frt axle suffix from R1 to R2 when they modified the thickness. BUT, ONE THING was Consistent about IHC, "They were inconsistent in how they did things"
Since either axle would interchange with no other changes to anything else and the machining would all be the same, only fixturing would maybe need to be modified or adjusted, the only reason to document the change would be to account for the extra weight of iron to pour the casting. If someone could find the official blueprint of the frt axle it should have a revision block that may give a date when the print was updated to the thicker dimensions, and maybe there would be some internal IHC engineering change form stating the pour weight increased. There would have had to have been a maintenance form submitted to KEYPUNCH to make that change but I bet it got tossed decades ago! I'm assuming the axle casting was poured in LVL, so all documentation would be internal. When I was a Material Scheduler @ FARMALL sending out Engineering Change Notices to other IHC plants and outside vendors was part of My job. Among about 1000 other "Things"
Couple of the changes Craig mentions, lke the side tin on the K161 & the gaps or spaces between the rim & wheel center were all "Supplier Changes" IH Engineering probaby were made aware of and approved but never had to document because they really didn't have "Prints" for those parts. IH's print just referenced the supplier's part or spec. number with a generic picture, no dimensions.
I can see why Electric Wheel wanted to change the rear wheel centers. I bet the blank on the later wheels was at least an INCH narrower and an inch shorter. If You laid the center out "Flat", it would be square, a stamping made from a coil of steel off a set of progressive stamping dies. Less steel = Less $$$$
Last three companies I've worked for have been ISO 9001 Certified. I was even an internal Auditor at My last employer. Funny thing is IHC had ALL the processes & procedures in place WAY BACK in the dark ages before computers to be ISO compliant! When You got into tooling & routings for gear & shaft machining keeping on top of ALL the changes to make setups got complicated!
Since either axle would interchange with no other changes to anything else and the machining would all be the same, only fixturing would maybe need to be modified or adjusted, the only reason to document the change would be to account for the extra weight of iron to pour the casting. If someone could find the official blueprint of the frt axle it should have a revision block that may give a date when the print was updated to the thicker dimensions, and maybe there would be some internal IHC engineering change form stating the pour weight increased. There would have had to have been a maintenance form submitted to KEYPUNCH to make that change but I bet it got tossed decades ago! I'm assuming the axle casting was poured in LVL, so all documentation would be internal. When I was a Material Scheduler @ FARMALL sending out Engineering Change Notices to other IHC plants and outside vendors was part of My job. Among about 1000 other "Things"
Couple of the changes Craig mentions, lke the side tin on the K161 & the gaps or spaces between the rim & wheel center were all "Supplier Changes" IH Engineering probaby were made aware of and approved but never had to document because they really didn't have "Prints" for those parts. IH's print just referenced the supplier's part or spec. number with a generic picture, no dimensions.
I can see why Electric Wheel wanted to change the rear wheel centers. I bet the blank on the later wheels was at least an INCH narrower and an inch shorter. If You laid the center out "Flat", it would be square, a stamping made from a coil of steel off a set of progressive stamping dies. Less steel = Less $$$$
Last three companies I've worked for have been ISO 9001 Certified. I was even an internal Auditor at My last employer. Funny thing is IHC had ALL the processes & procedures in place WAY BACK in the dark ages before computers to be ISO compliant! When You got into tooling & routings for gear & shaft machining keeping on top of ALL the changes to make setups got complicated!
Jeff, this might help.
On the thin axle, my anecdotal evidence from surveying tractors and sn's tells me that the really thin axle stopped being used very early, like 16xx or so. I know 1516 has one, and my 1801 never had one. I would enjoy being shown thin axles on later tractors, if someone could show one. Paul's shown that really early tractors sometimes had thick axles, probably replaced. Too bad these Original axles had no cast ID numbers or R's whatsoever...
A bit of trivia, that a few know. There was a thin "R1" axle on the 70/100 series too! It was only on the first 1000 or so tractors, near as I can tell.
Under edit - Kraig once again I congratulate you on a fine job redoing K4K. I would like to dig and find an early picture of it from its "Kub Cave" days in MN. I remember it was a "grove" tractor. Way to go preserving some equipment that deserved better!
A bit of trivia, that a few know. There was a thin "R1" axle on the 70/100 series too! It was only on the first 1000 or so tractors, near as I can tell.
Under edit - Kraig once again I congratulate you on a fine job redoing K4K. I would like to dig and find an early picture of it from its "Kub Cave" days in MN. I remember it was a "grove" tractor. Way to go preserving some equipment that deserved better!
JEFF - I assume Your adjusting the frt PTO with the turnbuckle on the right side of Your tractor. There should be a locknut to loosen, then turn the turnbuckle so the rod gets shorter, then snug down the locknut again. As long as the ends of the two rods don't butt against each other You can adjust away. There's supposed to be a "Clearance" between the wear or thrust button and the center pin of the PTO clutch, Service/Operator's manual says a single thickness of a matchbook cover should slide between the two when engaged with the engine off for safety. If there's not that much clearance it will wear itself into adjustment. You just need to adjust the rod shorter so the PTO wll disengage. I had that same problem with My 129. Wear on the thrust button is actually a good thing, the face wears into a concave shape which helps the button self-center when disengaging the PTO. About once a year I'd break the OEM wear button when installing the mule drive belt on the 129. Then over the next month or two I'd break about 2-3 more while trying to get them worn into shape.
CRAIG - Been YEARS (like 43) since I was around an Original model CC. Isn't there a DATE CODE marker on the frt axle casting? ALL FARMALL produced castings and later LVL produced castings had a small "Tag" held onto the pattern about 5/16"-3/8" tall and 1-1/4" long, an impression of four screw heads, and a code like this: ()03()15()G() Brackets "()" would be a screw head. If I remember right the first number, "03" was month, second "15" was date, last letter was IH code for year, F was '60, "G" was '61, "H" was '62. Not all castings got them, some were too little, but I've seen them on smaller castings than a CCO frt axle casting.
Denny, perhaps it's time you invested in one of Dan H's improved wear buttons. My #2 125 "powered by Killer" is sporting one.
Craig C., thanks for the nice comments. I'd love to see some photos of K4K before it was mine.
Craig C., thanks for the nice comments. I'd love to see some photos of K4K before it was mine.
Denny -
I know about the date codes, and I always thought it odd that for some reason the original axles didn't have any, unless I remember wrong. Can anyone find date codes on an original axle?
the 70/100 definitely has part ID and date codes, I remember that for sure.
I know about the date codes, and I always thought it odd that for some reason the original axles didn't have any, unless I remember wrong. Can anyone find date codes on an original axle?
the 70/100 definitely has part ID and date codes, I remember that for sure.
Jeff, click on the CC Specialties button above or on the Madson's Service button, I believe they both stock them.
Mine has not worn to the point where it will self center, it's only been run for about 2 hours. This photo was taken right after I installed it.
Mine has not worn to the point where it will self center, it's only been run for about 2 hours. This photo was taken right after I installed it.
KRAIG - I "Sold" the 129 2-1/2 yrs ago. Or Financially speaking.... I traded Dad the 129 for His '51 M FARMALL. I actually liked that tractor, Best mowing tractor I had. It was pretty much a "Basket Case" that kinda-sorta ran when I got it. It had a Lot of "ME" and My checkbook in it.
The 72 has never had a PTO button problem, the 70 has "PTO PROBLEMS" however. If I still had the 129 it WOULD have one of Dan's buttons in it.
CRAIG - I wonder if during the crunch time to get Cub Cadets to market IH didn't have a cheap wooden pattern made (thin axle?) while the longer lead-time aluminum matchplate pattern was being finished and approved (THICK axle?)?
Since the whole design of the axle changed between the orignal CC and the 70/100 that may explain the changes on that axle too.
The 72 has never had a PTO button problem, the 70 has "PTO PROBLEMS" however. If I still had the 129 it WOULD have one of Dan's buttons in it.
CRAIG - I wonder if during the crunch time to get Cub Cadets to market IH didn't have a cheap wooden pattern made (thin axle?) while the longer lead-time aluminum matchplate pattern was being finished and approved (THICK axle?)?
Since the whole design of the axle changed between the orignal CC and the 70/100 that may explain the changes on that axle too.
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Has anybody else had issues getting those bronze PTO buttons through the lever-arm without running a drill bit through to open them up?
Art, I had to drill mine. I had the grill off and the lever out so it was easy to drill it out with the drill press.
Denny
You are correct, IH was consistently inconsistent. The only casting on an Original with a date code is the transmission case I believe. The grill doesn't have one, the front axle or the rear axle tubes don't have one. The gear reduction housing may have, but I don't have one I can get to, to look. The grill has a cast P/N, and the axle tubes have a P/N on the flange (inset, not raised) and two thick front axles I looked at have some numbers faintly stamped into the back on the left side. They are stamped like the S/N's are, but so light I cannot make out the complete number on either axle.
As far as I know, all the production casting were poured at Louisville, at least until they went to the aluminum rear axle tubes and grill castings on the QL's an82 series. 409 had some 12 digit, 4 section, engineering part numbers cast on the axle tubes and reduction housings that basically told what the part was, the project, section it belonged too etc., but I don't know if they were cast in Louisville or someplace else.
You are correct, IH was consistently inconsistent. The only casting on an Original with a date code is the transmission case I believe. The grill doesn't have one, the front axle or the rear axle tubes don't have one. The gear reduction housing may have, but I don't have one I can get to, to look. The grill has a cast P/N, and the axle tubes have a P/N on the flange (inset, not raised) and two thick front axles I looked at have some numbers faintly stamped into the back on the left side. They are stamped like the S/N's are, but so light I cannot make out the complete number on either axle.
As far as I know, all the production casting were poured at Louisville, at least until they went to the aluminum rear axle tubes and grill castings on the QL's an82 series. 409 had some 12 digit, 4 section, engineering part numbers cast on the axle tubes and reduction housings that basically told what the part was, the project, section it belonged too etc., but I don't know if they were cast in Louisville or someplace else.
Ben, does this help?
Ben, this'll probably help.
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