As for the qustion on the 1200 with rear pto, or the 104 with creeper gear, i bought the 1200 before i posed the qustion, but wished that i could of bought both of them, and started to relize that one, with a creeper would be more useful with the blade, plow,or snowblower....since i brought this one home, but we will find, build, implments for the rear pto
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Archive through December 04, 2004
- Thread starter gwsmith
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
t.b. just an after thought, we used the inspection plate on top of the rearend to mount the suction and retun lines,Drilled holes and sealed with bulkheead hydro fittings, instead of welding to the rear cover plate....
Sorry Glen,
You dint say you wanted me to post'um, I thought you were just sending me pretty pics, LOL
You dint say you wanted me to post'um, I thought you were just sending me pretty pics, LOL
Last circuit is the ignition circuit. This circuit consists of the keyswitch, which provides power to the coil's PRIMARY winding (+)post. Contrary to factory manuals, the keyswitch actually applies 12v to the "I" terminal in both the Start and RUN positions. Use your voltmeter, ook for 12v in both key positions.
The coils' primary winding (-)post returns to ground through a set of contact points. As the engine turns, the contact points open and close. Each time contacts close, current flows through the coil, and when the points open, current stops. Current flow establishes a magnetic field, which is rapidly collapsed each time the points open. Collapsing field induces a high voltage in the coil's SECONDARY circuit (consisting of spark plug, wire, and coil secondary ground), which fires the plug. The condenser (on the coil's (-) post) acts as a snubber to prevent the collapsing field from drawing an arc across the contact points.
To test the ignition coil and points, unthread spark-plug from the head, connect it to the plug wire, and set the plug on the cylinder head, put a jumper wire from battery (+) to coil (+), and turn the flywheel. You should see a spark after no more than 2 rotations of the flywheel. If no spark, remove the points-cover, clean the points (I use a piece of 400-grit sandpaper folded in half and pulled through the points), and try again. If nothing, check the points for something broken, or a spring that has barely any closing force... should have the closing-tension of a clothespin. Once you get spark, pull the jumper-wire, turn the key to ON position- if the keyswitch (ane everything else you've tested) come out good, you should have starting and ignition.
The rest is just timing, fuel, and compresson.
The coils' primary winding (-)post returns to ground through a set of contact points. As the engine turns, the contact points open and close. Each time contacts close, current flows through the coil, and when the points open, current stops. Current flow establishes a magnetic field, which is rapidly collapsed each time the points open. Collapsing field induces a high voltage in the coil's SECONDARY circuit (consisting of spark plug, wire, and coil secondary ground), which fires the plug. The condenser (on the coil's (-) post) acts as a snubber to prevent the collapsing field from drawing an arc across the contact points.
To test the ignition coil and points, unthread spark-plug from the head, connect it to the plug wire, and set the plug on the cylinder head, put a jumper wire from battery (+) to coil (+), and turn the flywheel. You should see a spark after no more than 2 rotations of the flywheel. If no spark, remove the points-cover, clean the points (I use a piece of 400-grit sandpaper folded in half and pulled through the points), and try again. If nothing, check the points for something broken, or a spring that has barely any closing force... should have the closing-tension of a clothespin. Once you get spark, pull the jumper-wire, turn the key to ON position- if the keyswitch (ane everything else you've tested) come out good, you should have starting and ignition.
The rest is just timing, fuel, and compresson.
Zach- look at the wiring diagram, and understand the components.
You've got THREE circuits involved in starting the engine... the FIRST circuit is the starter-solenoid circuit. You've got power from battery (at keyswitch) going through a series circuit of one or more safety switches and the starter solenoid, returning to the battery via chassis ground. (Check that chassis ground!). When you make up all the safety switches, and close the keyswitch, the solenoid should close with a nice, stout Click. Torin's test proved that the solenoid's coil is good, and that the internal shorting bar IS moving, but since you can't get same response with keyswitch, there's a problem somewhere between the keyswitch and the starter solenoid post. Start by looking for 12v at the keyswitch BATT terminal. Then, put your tester on the S, and turn the key to the START position. Move to each pin of the next safety switch, with the connector still on the switch, and the switch depressed, you should see 12v at BOTH sides of the switch. Continue through all switches, and finally check the post on the starter solenoid. When you get 12v at all locations, you'll have a continous circuit, and the solenoid coil SHOULD pull in... provided you don't have a ground-return problem between the solenoid and the battery. (Check the grounds!). Once you've done this, you should be able to hop on, depress the pedal, twist the key, and get a CLICK out of the starter solenoid.
Next circuit is the starting circuit. Battery cable carries 12v high-current capacity to one post of the starter solenoid. A shorting-bar inside the solenoid shorts the two large terminals together, and current flows from the second post, through wiring, to the starter-generator's big post. When the solenoid clicks, current flows through the S/G, (which will operate in 'motor' mode), to the engine block (as ground-return). From the engine block, current flows through a short bonding-cable, to the frame, through to the battery (-)post, for a complete circuit. Since you applied 12v battery directly to the S/G and got motion, the SG is functional... at least enough to make motion. Good connections and grounding are imperative, because this is a high-current circuit... any resistance in Either side of the circuit will drag the SG BAD. (Check those grounds!). Completing this, you should have a solenoid which clicks when you turn the key, and an SG that spins.
You've got THREE circuits involved in starting the engine... the FIRST circuit is the starter-solenoid circuit. You've got power from battery (at keyswitch) going through a series circuit of one or more safety switches and the starter solenoid, returning to the battery via chassis ground. (Check that chassis ground!). When you make up all the safety switches, and close the keyswitch, the solenoid should close with a nice, stout Click. Torin's test proved that the solenoid's coil is good, and that the internal shorting bar IS moving, but since you can't get same response with keyswitch, there's a problem somewhere between the keyswitch and the starter solenoid post. Start by looking for 12v at the keyswitch BATT terminal. Then, put your tester on the S, and turn the key to the START position. Move to each pin of the next safety switch, with the connector still on the switch, and the switch depressed, you should see 12v at BOTH sides of the switch. Continue through all switches, and finally check the post on the starter solenoid. When you get 12v at all locations, you'll have a continous circuit, and the solenoid coil SHOULD pull in... provided you don't have a ground-return problem between the solenoid and the battery. (Check the grounds!). Once you've done this, you should be able to hop on, depress the pedal, twist the key, and get a CLICK out of the starter solenoid.
Next circuit is the starting circuit. Battery cable carries 12v high-current capacity to one post of the starter solenoid. A shorting-bar inside the solenoid shorts the two large terminals together, and current flows from the second post, through wiring, to the starter-generator's big post. When the solenoid clicks, current flows through the S/G, (which will operate in 'motor' mode), to the engine block (as ground-return). From the engine block, current flows through a short bonding-cable, to the frame, through to the battery (-)post, for a complete circuit. Since you applied 12v battery directly to the S/G and got motion, the SG is functional... at least enough to make motion. Good connections and grounding are imperative, because this is a high-current circuit... any resistance in Either side of the circuit will drag the SG BAD. (Check those grounds!). Completing this, you should have a solenoid which clicks when you turn the key, and an SG that spins.
Charlie, you're an Angel in flannel and coveralls. Please accept my thanks for your generous donation toward Zak's education.
Zak, consider yourself most-thoroughly hazed, as I went through great writer's cramp to bring you a very personalized manual.
(Message edited by dkamp on December 04, 2004)
Zak, consider yourself most-thoroughly hazed, as I went through great writer's cramp to bring you a very personalized manual.
(Message edited by dkamp on December 04, 2004)
Did IH make a rear weight bracket for the red 82 series tractors? Does anyone have any pics of how it is attached? I'm thinking about fabracating a rear weight bracket for my 782 insead of wheel weights. Did IH secify how much weight could be added to this bracket? I am also worried that my axle castings are made from alumium and that i can't add alot of weight to it. any pics info would be apreciated!
Jim
Jim
Jim- the axles are one of the main reasons why wheel weights are so popular- they provide ballast without increasing support load. Using fluid in tires is one step better- it adds weight without support, and since it's fluid, it doesn't significantly increase the wheels' polar moment inertia... meaning, if you goose the hydro or pop the clutch, the tires may spin rapidly, but the fluid will lazily allow the spin, and not cause you to twist the axle off.
I'm not sure if there's a maximum allowable ballast spec for any of the CC's (I think the weight-bracket runs out of space when it's at-limit) but there've been plenty of people who've challenged the Queen Mary in the ballast department (both dead and 'live' [ahem] weight) and a few guys have proven that cub axle housings, shafts, an differential carriers Can be broken. I think the general consensus is that it's better to have wheelspin occur before breakage... because the consequences of the latter make for a short cubbing day, and a long night in the workshop...
(Message edited by dkamp on December 04, 2004)
I'm not sure if there's a maximum allowable ballast spec for any of the CC's (I think the weight-bracket runs out of space when it's at-limit) but there've been plenty of people who've challenged the Queen Mary in the ballast department (both dead and 'live' [ahem] weight) and a few guys have proven that cub axle housings, shafts, an differential carriers Can be broken. I think the general consensus is that it's better to have wheelspin occur before breakage... because the consequences of the latter make for a short cubbing day, and a long night in the workshop...
(Message edited by dkamp on December 04, 2004)
Dave, Jim,
I think if you have a loader on your cub you might want to put weight on the back as well as the wheel. The weight on the back will take some of the weight off the spindles. However if your rig has a 3-point you might want the weight on the front. I like to run light as possible.
Save an axle spin a wheel.
I think if you have a loader on your cub you might want to put weight on the back as well as the wheel. The weight on the back will take some of the weight off the spindles. However if your rig has a 3-point you might want the weight on the front. I like to run light as possible.
Save an axle spin a wheel.
mgallinaro
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2004
- Messages
- 69
- displayname
- MICHAEL J. GALLINARO
Glen S
Creeper drives are a pretty simple installation. (A LOT EASIER TO RETRO-FIT THAN A REAR PTO!) You can usually find used ones on E-bay, and buy a rebuild kit from one of the sponsors above. Travis at CCS did have a complete one listed on his site. This way you can get the best of both tractors, the added power of the 12 horse, the rear pto and the creeper.
Creeper drives are a pretty simple installation. (A LOT EASIER TO RETRO-FIT THAN A REAR PTO!) You can usually find used ones on E-bay, and buy a rebuild kit from one of the sponsors above. Travis at CCS did have a complete one listed on his site. This way you can get the best of both tractors, the added power of the 12 horse, the rear pto and the creeper.
Taking work on my 169 at a more than casual pace, I finished buttoning it back up following the installation of gauge and sender for the hydro. Since I wanted to see what I had to start with, and I'm not likely in any danger of undercooling it through the winter, I went ahead and put the sender in without doing any mods, even replacing the near-missing cooling fan. Only variation I through in is that I'm not using HyTran (using Type-F). Using what I had ay my disposal, I just tried heating up the hydro by running the 169 at "part hydro" up against a curb, occasionally feeling the hydro to see if I'm getting it any warmer. About the time the hydro was too hot to touch on the top the gauge was just tipping 140°F. Given, 140°F is less than too hot to touch, my sender is on the bottom of the hydro in one of the plugs flanking the inlet tube. Feeling around the bottom, the temp sender was hot, but not too hot to hold onto.
What's to be learned from this I can't say with certainty, but one thing's for sure, the plugs on the bottom of the hydro don't likely go into the pump/motor circuit, and seem to be reading more of the average system temperature, so attempting to sample the pump/motor circuit to get an "early temperature reading" wasn't achieved, BUT at least it is a place that the plug can be removed, drilled & threaded and put back onto the transmission without the need to completely gut and clean shavings out of the transmission.
Also, IMHO, from the abuse that I tried dishing out, the transmission didn't heat up near as easily as when I used HyTran. Not a full endorsement of another fluid, just an observation/opinion.
IF I can get the pictures downloaded from my camera I'll post the pictures later.
What's to be learned from this I can't say with certainty, but one thing's for sure, the plugs on the bottom of the hydro don't likely go into the pump/motor circuit, and seem to be reading more of the average system temperature, so attempting to sample the pump/motor circuit to get an "early temperature reading" wasn't achieved, BUT at least it is a place that the plug can be removed, drilled & threaded and put back onto the transmission without the need to completely gut and clean shavings out of the transmission.
Also, IMHO, from the abuse that I tried dishing out, the transmission didn't heat up near as easily as when I used HyTran. Not a full endorsement of another fluid, just an observation/opinion.
IF I can get the pictures downloaded from my camera I'll post the pictures later.
K
kbranch
Guest
I have a very dumb question, so please don't thrash me too hard. My dad has a 100 and seems to think that there is a k181(8 hp) in it, while all the other 100s I have seen have the k241(10hp) in them, so which is it that I have? I don't have the cub on hand or I would just go look at it, currently it is sitting at our hunting club an hour away from my house. thanks for the help
Kevin B,
Just cause it looks like a 100 and barks like a 100 doesn't mean that Vet down the road dint make it chirp like a bird and stick a K181 in it.
Just cause it looks like a 100 and barks like a 100 doesn't mean that Vet down the road dint make it chirp like a bird and stick a K181 in it.
Or it could be a 70 that someone put an upgrade to a K181 and replaced the hood or decals at sometime in it's life. Does it have only an acorn nut on top of the steering wheel like a 70 or does it have a cap that covers the center of the steering wheel like a 100?
P
pwade
Guest
Hi guys,
I'm trying to upgrade my 1200 steering like the one on here some time back by Jack Moore. I've done a little surfing trying to find the thrust bearing Jack used for the upgrade. He calls it a "nice605". Can someone help me locate one anywhere? Thanks. Here's the picture he posted. Looks like a great idea to enhance the stock steering box.
I'm trying to upgrade my 1200 steering like the one on here some time back by Jack Moore. I've done a little surfing trying to find the thrust bearing Jack used for the upgrade. He calls it a "nice605". Can someone help me locate one anywhere? Thanks. Here's the picture he posted. Looks like a great idea to enhance the stock steering box.
balbrecht
Well-known member
Phillip,
I ordered a few through these guys:
https://www.motionmro.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
But the shipping was more than the bearings (bearing was about 3 bucks shipping about 10). See if they have a local outlet near you and save on the shipping, or order enough to make it worth the shipping. The upgrade is well worth the effort, I done it on all my Cub Cadets. -Bri
-Brian
(Message edited by balbrecht on December 04, 2004)
I ordered a few through these guys:
https://www.motionmro.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
But the shipping was more than the bearings (bearing was about 3 bucks shipping about 10). See if they have a local outlet near you and save on the shipping, or order enough to make it worth the shipping. The upgrade is well worth the effort, I done it on all my Cub Cadets. -Bri
-Brian
(Message edited by balbrecht on December 04, 2004)
