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Archive through April 19, 2016

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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Hydro,

Thank you for correcting my misinformation I gave to Kevin. I was thinking of my 105 but I forgot the PO had replaced the engine back in a day.

Now my question is the 122 has the housing and # K301AS but has the same style setup as in the latter AQS. That must be the wrong 12HP for that year as well?
I have no history of the 122 but it was rode hard and has had several changes made to that as well. It a worker so I do not care, just want to know for the future.
 
Bill-My 122 has the angle bracket adjustment. They appear to have been the same through the 1X4 1X5 series at least. I have a Kohler replacement engine sitting on the work bench dated 1974 with the same setup.
 
Charlie - hmmm, very interesting about the 2 knuckles/spindles. If I read between the lines do I see my name? Honestly, although Steve referred to the one on the right as the "heavy spindle" from CCC/MTD I sure don't like the looks of the weld, and I wonder if the actual steel might be a lower grade/quality so they increased the overall dimension.

Bill - I don't know that I would call your reference "mis-information". It was generally a good reference to the items involved, just a later version. Now, about your 122 - does your engine block happen to be painted black? Maybe even the air cleaner cover? (If so you very likely have a newer replacement engine, maybe just a short block but very likely more).

I'd actually like to see some pics (they are worth 10,000 words).

It sure sounds like you may have a K301AQS engine but it would most likely have have an integrated starter that utilizes a flywheel with a ring gear. Because the flywheel ring gear requires a larger shroud I'm betting someone got the a complete AQS style engine, removed the ring gear flywheel and shroud, removed the integrated starter, installed the original flywheel and shroud, installed the original S/G set up, etc, and left the new carb, governor, linkage, throttle and choke connections in place. They very likely had to come up with some way to attach the 2 little levers for the choke and throttle onto the side of the shroud - probably not rocket science to just copy the AQS attaching method. Ooh, and they would have had to change the pear shaped air cleaner with rubber tube into the flywheel shroud, back to the original air clearner.

So Bill, if you can post some pics I'm sure we'd all like to see how you K301A is set up on your 122. No reason that I can think of that the method I described wouldn't work. If you have the black block I'd feel fairly certain you have a replacement engine. Otherwise, there is no real actual way to tell unless you have a newer style Kohler sticker label on the shroud as well, which a dealer may have had access to, or may have come in the original box/shipment. If you do happen to have a black air cleaner cover it could be your engine is a K301AS with just a different Kohler Spec number that provided the later governor, throttle and choke linkages and cable connections. Now lets see those pics.

Doug - I don't know when the AQS style came out from Kohler but it didn't mean Kohler stopped production of just the A version. It probably was just a matter of ordering the "correct" Kohler Spec number which is where all these details get hidden by Kohler. Most likely the PO of Bill's 122 either got a used replacement engine, or a dealer had an AS or AQS with different Spec Number on the shelf and just used it.

Jeff Baker, ole bud - how come you didn't bite on my comment about the narrow frame drag link steering cap interference issue with the mule drive mount? I mentioned it was a wide frame advantage and I figured we'd hear from you. I think you changed your tag line. Pretty certain it used to say Wide Frame Hydros are the Cat's Meow.
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Harry,

I'm sure they are both made from mild steel....nothing fancy or alloyed.

They are the same thickness, and the MTD one is wider at the spindle attachment area. As much as folks might not want to hear this, MTD did IMPROVE some things, and this is most definitely one of them. No question the right spindle is built heavier.

Under edit: IH made that change for the 82 series in 81 (literature shows it specifically )

I've seen pretty looking welds fail and ugly by comparisob hold, wouldn't judge quality on that factor alone.....how many spindle welds have we ever heard of failing around here?
 
Steve - I get what you're saying, but is more steel necessarily heavier duty? I'm wondering why you think the CCC/MTD version is heavier duty? How many spindles have we heard of failing because of the main spindle bending? The way the spindle attaches to the axle on the top and bottom it's pretty well clamped in place. The tractor would probably have to drop about 10 feet on the wheel to bend the spindle wouldn't it?
 
Harry B - Lost Terminology, is I don't know what you call the piece, I call the cam with the break/neutral slot. The base to that piece is what I adjusted. Pulled the plug wire so it would not start. Release the break, and bypass the break safety switch. Crank the starter and the machine creeped forward or backwards, adjusted till I found neutral. May not be the most correct way but that is how a hillbilly shade tree mechanic does it.
 
Might also be some late QL's with the updated spindles........more meat to weld 1" spindles to...vs. the previous 3/4" versions.
 
Harry,

I have seen 3/4" wide frame spindles twisted near the middle from a hard impact to the front tire.....

Most likely explanation for the extra metal is the increase to 1" spindles and need for more steel to weld to.
 
Steve - hmm, if Charlie got his pics correct those should both be 1" spindles. I can understand more meat to weld the 1" too, but I'm still thinking that's a poorer quality weld, even looks recessed rather than raised, and I would think it would be less tough than the IH version on the left in the pic.

Gary C - I kinda get what you're saying. thanks for the explanation.
 
Harry-
You're over-thinking it...
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Here's how this probably works. One day while working at MTD engineer-Bob was told he had to figure out a way to make the spindles stronger. Bob knew THICKER metal wouldn't work as it would mess up the steering geometry, so he put a little more "meat" on either side of the spindle stub. Done...

As far as one weld looking better than the other, I'd bet a "Benjamin" that those welds are done by a machine. Having said that, you could dig through a box of 1,000 spindles and find 960 of them that all look like different quality. They're all going to have similar "heat" and welding wire put into them and will be plenty strong enough. As Steve mentioned, when have we ever seen a stub spindle break loose from the bracket?

It's a garden tractor spindle, not a bracket on a NASA space vehicle.
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