Super Frame vs 82 series frames

[mpatterson]

The attached pictures are thanks to Nic Bextermueller, who spent the time to measure up two tractors for us as reference.

Regarding the debate of STD frames vs. Super frame sizes. I went out to measure them. The difference is 6" between the front of the fenders and the noted hole.

And for that hard to read measurement at the bottom, it's 57 1/2"


Notice on my 782. The holes are nearly behind the fenders...

This discussion all came about because I was inquiring about either lengthening an 82 series (standar) frame or finding a super frame to install a Sims cab meant for a super frame. As outlined by Matt G. the Super cab will not properly fit onto a standard frame, they are two different cabs.

 

[mgonitzke]

The extra length is actually at the back of the frame. Comparing a 782 to a later MTD tractor can mislead you, as there are actually a lot of differences in the holes in them at that point. If you look at that super frame a little closer, you'll see the GT rearend mounting holes and the holes for the frankenstein bolts for the IH 3-point.

 

[digger]

Mike P.
Nothin to be sorry about. This way, your info/progress will be in one spot and easier to get to for everyone.

 

[mpatterson]

Matt,
So if I was to modify the 782 standard frame, I would have to add the 6 inches to the rear of the frame, and drill new holes or add it behind the fenders somewhere?

OMG! This is starting to turn into a lot more work than I thought it would be!

 

[mgonitzke]

If you added 6" of another frame most everything would be where it belongs.

Remind me again what you'll accomplish by doing this?

 

[nbextermueller]

Matt,

Maybe your right, they probably just added 6" to the stock material, and popped new holes in it. But I have an IH 782, CCC 2072, CCC 1050, and the MTD 2063.

If I was going to take a Std frame and make it a super, And keep the 23" tire, I would add the material right where I have that lightning bolt. There are no other holes in that area.

I actually measured all 4 tractors to look for differences and short of a few bolt holes, they are as I described. Adding 6" to the back would obviously work, but then you have to drill a bunch of holes.

On a different note, you may also notice that the foot rest on the Super are about 1.5" higher than the 782. The are bolted to a bracket welded on the side of the frame instead of the 782's under the frame. This is because the fenders have to clear the 26" tire. This bracket would also have to move back with the fenders after lengthening a 782 frame.

 

[nbextermueller]

I went back out and did more searching. I agree with Matt that the added material from IH/CCC is at the rear. I took more pictures and will be posting them as soon as I resize them.

I still say extending a 782 would be easier adding the material in the middle.

 

[mpatterson]

Matt,
I am needing to make my Sims cab fit onto a tractor. I have the 782 & the 782 parts tractor to work with right now. I do not want to put the cab on the 982 I have. I bought a QA42a blower this past fall

I want to use it with the cab and which ever tractor I use. My issue is the cab I bought first of all is for a super, second it has a different door than the others I have seen. It is this style of cab

So I was figuring of buying a super roller frame and building a tractor with my 782 parts. That way I would have the longer frame so the cab would fit. I then would need to find the correct fender pan or modify the doors I have to fit the square type fenders of an 82 series. Which I think I could still do since I think there is enough meat left of the door to reshape the curve on the back side where it meets the window. Then others pointed out, think it was Art, that I would have issues with the blower reaching the ground using the taller tires from a super. So I am thinking a low rider super, so use the regular tires off the 782, and stretch the frame of the 782, that way the blower fits right, the cab fits right, and all my body panels fit right too. I would just have to reshape the doors on the cab, and get a tunnel cover for between the seat and the steering column the correct length, like they use on the supers. So thats how I threw everyone into the frame length discussion.
Are we thinking right? I know you had put the cab on your super, but you already had a blower meant for a super and well, your cab had the matching doors to your fenders.
I kinda like the idea of reshaping the doors from the stand point of making "fenders" like Art has on his tractor and you as well. I like how they over hang the fender pan and would likely keep the windows cleaner too since more of the tires are covered up and preventing spray up onto the side windows. It also looks more finished looking.

 

[nbextermueller]

Mike P,

So I just had another thought about this. If you lengthen your 782 frame, your going to have to double check where the rear of the mule drive hooks up.

That's another +1 for Matt's thought of adding to the rear.

 

[mpatterson]

Here is a picture of a 682 frame, which should be the same as a 782 iun my pea brain. Matt & Nic, where would you add the extra 6" to the frame? At the very back? Or cut the frame just behind where the fender pan would bolt on. I am thinking if you add it to the back, you'd have to drill new holes for the braces for the fender pan would you not?

Where if you cut it in the middle, then you'd only have to lengthen the drive shaft?

Picture thanks to fellow forum member's posting

 

[jstertz]

No Problem Mike! Anything to help out a fellow forum member

 

[nbextermueller]

Ok, more pictures...

This is a profile of my 2072. A more apples-to-apples style tractor. Notice the front fender support bolts are further to the rear and higher than the 782 at the bottom of the page. The front of the fenders on a 782 are all the way under the clutch pedal pad. here they are much further back.

This is looking up to the left rear frame rail. The red circles are where the 782 rear would bolt. And as Matt said, the upper hole w/ grommet and wires is actually the hole for the frankenstein bolts of a Std sleeve hitch.

Here is a rear view of the 2072.

Here is the same view of my 782. Look closely at the 2 to spot the differences. Hint, look at the chamfer in the bottom of the frame relative to the holes.

 

[nbextermueller]

And to answer your question, see this:

Adding at the line would only require a longer driveshaft from a Super. The circled bracket would need to be moved back 6" also to bolt the fenders to as noted in my previous post. And there is a cutout in the fender to clear the bottom of the manual lift (arrow), but you should be fine with a hydro lift on a 782.

 

[mgonitzke]

If you lengthen the 782, you'll need a new driveshaft, hydraulic lines, and will have to extend all the wires that go to the back of the tractor, and then the cab is still totally wrong after all of that and will have to be modified anyway. I wouldn't count on Cyclops fenders bolting up to a 782 either...they added a lot of new holes in the frame for the Cyclops tractors, it seems.

At this point, I'd either find the correct cab (what you should have done in the first place) or modify that one to work and leave the tractor alone. Modifying the cab is going to be easier and faster than modifying the cab AND the tractor.

 

[nbextermueller]

I reluctantly agree with Matt... It will also require a longer Hydro control rod. Dig into the cab only.

 

[mpatterson]

Any suggestions on "how" you would modify the cab? I know I can modify the shape of the cab doors to fit the 82 series fenders. BUT, I have to get the cab to sit back further on the engine panels, otherwise the cab will be about 6 or 8 inches too far forward.

Hence lengthening the frame.

 

[dtanner]

Mike Patterson

I think I added this idea earlier . I would mod the doors and back on the end of the frame I would add some steel coming back the length you need and up to support the back of the tractor cab. Fill in the gap between the fenders and cab with some sheet metal. Done