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Archive through September 25, 2018
- Thread starter kharvey
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Kendal-
I actually tried that and it didn't change anything (??). Like I mentioned in my post, I have several air suckers here but they always respond to adjustments.
Hydro-
I was mainly concerned with not only doing it one handed but how in the world did you clean both gasket mating surfaces which may probably be the most important part of the job. There couldn't have been much room to work. As for the way in which to mount the gasket, I've done it both ways with success but agree with Gerrys way...it's just a little easier. And Gerry is correct about the gasket not being cork today but rather a composition. I'm the one that mentioned neoprene and the fact I made the gasket twice...my first and last time.
One thing I noticed that Gerry left out was that aggravating brake return spring on (some?) QLs located on the left side. He showed the spring that's easy to deal with but the other long spring can be a bear.
Since I had done this several times I figured I didn't need to read FAQ #94. My bad. I might have known about using a strap long before now.
I'm getting ready to go check the governor adjustment on Bull in a few minutes. I think I may also try another carb altogether just to see. It really bugs me to have a tractor with a new engine not running like it should.
And what did you mean by "it doesn't work on fe-male tractors"?
.
I actually tried that and it didn't change anything (??). Like I mentioned in my post, I have several air suckers here but they always respond to adjustments.
Hydro-
I was mainly concerned with not only doing it one handed but how in the world did you clean both gasket mating surfaces which may probably be the most important part of the job. There couldn't have been much room to work. As for the way in which to mount the gasket, I've done it both ways with success but agree with Gerrys way...it's just a little easier. And Gerry is correct about the gasket not being cork today but rather a composition. I'm the one that mentioned neoprene and the fact I made the gasket twice...my first and last time.
One thing I noticed that Gerry left out was that aggravating brake return spring on (some?) QLs located on the left side. He showed the spring that's easy to deal with but the other long spring can be a bear.
Since I had done this several times I figured I didn't need to read FAQ #94. My bad. I might have known about using a strap long before now.
I'm getting ready to go check the governor adjustment on Bull in a few minutes. I think I may also try another carb altogether just to see. It really bugs me to have a tractor with a new engine not running like it should.
And what did you mean by "it doesn't work on fe-male tractors"?
.
Frank-
I did notice that and thought his warped sense of humor was reflecting "jock strap". Good ole Hydro.
Hydro-
You never commented on your 169 and my question. I'm sure it's still collecting dust in the garage...poor thing. Maybe you can find a parade if they have them on the left coast.
.
I did notice that and thought his warped sense of humor was reflecting "jock strap". Good ole Hydro.
Hydro-
You never commented on your 169 and my question. I'm sure it's still collecting dust in the garage...poor thing. Maybe you can find a parade if they have them on the left coast.
.
hydroharry
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,377
- displayname
- Harry Bursell
Wayne - well so far no one has agreed that it's possible to do it using the hardest (quickest) method I described (not removing the fender pan). I'm trying to find out if my memory is correct or not.
Back to Bull - for me that dang Governor rod and throttle bracket clamp is always a PIA and mystery whether the rod is fully rotated. It's one item where you do really need 3 hands (or maybe 12 fingers and 3 thumbs) in order to make dang sure it's in place. Trying a different carb is a good idea too.
Ooh, and Frank picked right up on the female tractor comment. Might have to put a comment in the Garage about using a female tractor strap on, a jack that is.
Under Edit - Wayne, goldernit, you were posting when I was. Hey I DID forget to comment on my 169. It is setting in my garage. I ended up having an oil leak and had to pull the engine again. Thought it was the aluminum pan but ended up being the cam cover gasket. I changed the cam cover gasket and I actually went ahead and put a cast iron pan on it too. The engine is back in the tractor but nothing is hooked up yet. I had double hernia surgery last week an ain't supposed lift more than 5# and my wife and son both follow me every time I go in the garage. I might get to it in a couple more weeks. I missed out on the parades this year (only got to go up/down my own street and around the neighbor hood one time). Couple people asked me why I had a new tractor and a 10,000 square foot yard.
Back to Bull - for me that dang Governor rod and throttle bracket clamp is always a PIA and mystery whether the rod is fully rotated. It's one item where you do really need 3 hands (or maybe 12 fingers and 3 thumbs) in order to make dang sure it's in place. Trying a different carb is a good idea too.
Ooh, and Frank picked right up on the female tractor comment. Might have to put a comment in the Garage about using a female tractor strap on, a jack that is.
Under Edit - Wayne, goldernit, you were posting when I was. Hey I DID forget to comment on my 169. It is setting in my garage. I ended up having an oil leak and had to pull the engine again. Thought it was the aluminum pan but ended up being the cam cover gasket. I changed the cam cover gasket and I actually went ahead and put a cast iron pan on it too. The engine is back in the tractor but nothing is hooked up yet. I had double hernia surgery last week an ain't supposed lift more than 5# and my wife and son both follow me every time I go in the garage. I might get to it in a couple more weeks. I missed out on the parades this year (only got to go up/down my own street and around the neighbor hood one time). Couple people asked me why I had a new tractor and a 10,000 square foot yard.
I have found that a couple of stiff rubber bands come in handy when adjusting the governor.
Clamp the vise grips on the end of the shaft and secure with one rubber band.
The 2nd band will pull the choke wide open that leaves both hands free to deal with the bolt that clamps the lever to the shaft.
Clamp the vise grips on the end of the shaft and secure with one rubber band.
The 2nd band will pull the choke wide open that leaves both hands free to deal with the bolt that clamps the lever to the shaft.
elamott
Well-known member
Throttle shaft
I have forgotten (old age) what size brass washer is used for the throttle shaft bushing on a K301
Thanks
Earl L
I have forgotten (old age) what size brass washer is used for the throttle shaft bushing on a K301
Thanks
Earl L
Earl L.
I'll send ya one tomorrow.
I'll send ya one tomorrow.
mgwin
Well-known member
Wayne,
Just have sat down. Man I'm tired! Been a long hot two weeks.Have only glanced at some posts including yours.
One thought, and you may have already done it. Have you made sure the "needle valve" holes are good and cleaned out? There are several tiny holes in them.
I hope you know what I am talking about, because I can't think of what they are called. I'm so tired, I am not sure what I am called right now.
It is the adjusting needles for the high and low idle.
Man, I have got to go to bed while I still can!
OH, and by the way, they are still on CL Wayne! You just gotta look!
Just have sat down. Man I'm tired! Been a long hot two weeks.Have only glanced at some posts including yours.
One thought, and you may have already done it. Have you made sure the "needle valve" holes are good and cleaned out? There are several tiny holes in them.
I hope you know what I am talking about, because I can't think of what they are called. I'm so tired, I am not sure what I am called right now.
It is the adjusting needles for the high and low idle.
Man, I have got to go to bed while I still can!
OH, and by the way, they are still on CL Wayne! You just gotta look!
Marty-
I looked in the Charlotte CL for the 149s and just couldn't find them. I'll try again (tomorrow...bedtime now).
Earl-
FYI, the bushings I have are Hillman P/N 58087-A. If you have a hardware store that carries Hillman they are rather inexpensive. I also think these are bronze.
Hydro-
I use visegrips as David mentioned to put force on the governor shaft while I deal with the two nuts/wrenches. It's always worked well for me. Sorry to hear of your hernia situation and glad you got them fixed. I assume since it was a double jobby it was an inguinal hernia. I scrubbed a many of them being an OR Tech in while in the service but you were on the other end of this deal. Pay attention to what the doc says. And I hope you get the cub back out and exercising soon. You didn't say anything about the crank balance or was that a while back now?
.
I looked in the Charlotte CL for the 149s and just couldn't find them. I'll try again (tomorrow...bedtime now).
Earl-
FYI, the bushings I have are Hillman P/N 58087-A. If you have a hardware store that carries Hillman they are rather inexpensive. I also think these are bronze.
Hydro-
I use visegrips as David mentioned to put force on the governor shaft while I deal with the two nuts/wrenches. It's always worked well for me. Sorry to hear of your hernia situation and glad you got them fixed. I assume since it was a double jobby it was an inguinal hernia. I scrubbed a many of them being an OR Tech in while in the service but you were on the other end of this deal. Pay attention to what the doc says. And I hope you get the cub back out and exercising soon. You didn't say anything about the crank balance or was that a while back now?
.
Thanks to all who gave me further info on the removal and replacement of the cork gasket. I had already come across the link that was provided. That's a great source. I did not quite undo some of the linkages as suggested, but figured it doesn't really matter as long as the job gets done.
I'm confused on the suggestion that I planned to roll the frame frontward. Guess it could be done that way, but I was going to back it out on the jack. I do like the idea of attaching a strap around the jack and trans since, as can be seen in my recent posts, my main concern is having the thing slip off the jack. Not sure what is meant by the draw bar...but I'm thinking it is the mechanism that attaches to the rear lift? If so, I already have that out - had to take the left rear wheel off to pull the pin out - but perhaps I'm referring to a different part. Anyway, the more info I gather here the better. Very busy right now into next week so not sure when I'll get to the Cub, but figured it ain't going anywhere. Plus, the guy who has my block and is going to switch parts over to one he has there that was already bored said he's really busy with putting in a truck engine for a guy. So...it'll be a work in progress for awhile yet. Many thanks again. I'll keep posting as I make further progress.
OH...almost forgot...I have only partially drained the hytran fluid. I'm not big on removing that rear pan - did it once - was enough. Why these old tractors didn't have some sort of transmission drain plug on the bottom is beyond me. I used an extractor to suck out at least 2 quarts. Is it necessary to get all the rest out? I was going to wait until separation and then - I'm assuming once I take off whatever is needed to get at the gasket, at that time I'd be able to get my extractor tube in there and get more fluid out. Don't know if this is a good way to do it or not, but I'm used to using the extractor on my cub to change oil. I haven't loosened the oil pan bolt in years since I've had issues with 3 different bolts leaking over the last 37 years.
I'm confused on the suggestion that I planned to roll the frame frontward. Guess it could be done that way, but I was going to back it out on the jack. I do like the idea of attaching a strap around the jack and trans since, as can be seen in my recent posts, my main concern is having the thing slip off the jack. Not sure what is meant by the draw bar...but I'm thinking it is the mechanism that attaches to the rear lift? If so, I already have that out - had to take the left rear wheel off to pull the pin out - but perhaps I'm referring to a different part. Anyway, the more info I gather here the better. Very busy right now into next week so not sure when I'll get to the Cub, but figured it ain't going anywhere. Plus, the guy who has my block and is going to switch parts over to one he has there that was already bored said he's really busy with putting in a truck engine for a guy. So...it'll be a work in progress for awhile yet. Many thanks again. I'll keep posting as I make further progress.
OH...almost forgot...I have only partially drained the hytran fluid. I'm not big on removing that rear pan - did it once - was enough. Why these old tractors didn't have some sort of transmission drain plug on the bottom is beyond me. I used an extractor to suck out at least 2 quarts. Is it necessary to get all the rest out? I was going to wait until separation and then - I'm assuming once I take off whatever is needed to get at the gasket, at that time I'd be able to get my extractor tube in there and get more fluid out. Don't know if this is a good way to do it or not, but I'm used to using the extractor on my cub to change oil. I haven't loosened the oil pan bolt in years since I've had issues with 3 different bolts leaking over the last 37 years.
snicklas
Well-known member
Keith,
It sounds like you removed the top rockshaft for the rear lift, if you removed a long pin. The drawbar is the triangle at the bottom with the hole in it to pull a trailer with. It's held on with the bottom 3 bolts of the back cover, and may also have the bottom U shaped bracket for the rear 3 point hitch (that is what IH calls the top rock shaft and lower u bracket).
As to removing the cover, yes it is important. Hy-Tran is hydroscopic (will absorb water) and will create little globs (similar to corn starch if it doesn't get mixed well) These globs will settle to the bottom, and need to be removed. I believe this is why IH didn't put in a drain plug. Trust me, you want the water out of the fluid. I used a "hy-tran compliant fluid" that did not en-train and remove the water. The pump whined more than it should, and when I changed the fluid (for Hy-Tran) the fluid I took out was still the correct viscosity, but was the color of peanut butter, because of all the emulsified water. Once I had the correct fluid, it doesn't whine as much. The main thing to make sure you don't have a leak, is make the surface surgically clean, and make sure the bolts go back in the hole they came out of. Because depending on what is bolted to the outside, like just the drawbar, or the drrawbar and U bracket, a tiller hitch, etc will change the length of the bolt. The wrong bolt can pop the bolt hole in the transmission case and cause a leak......
It sounds like you removed the top rockshaft for the rear lift, if you removed a long pin. The drawbar is the triangle at the bottom with the hole in it to pull a trailer with. It's held on with the bottom 3 bolts of the back cover, and may also have the bottom U shaped bracket for the rear 3 point hitch (that is what IH calls the top rock shaft and lower u bracket).
As to removing the cover, yes it is important. Hy-Tran is hydroscopic (will absorb water) and will create little globs (similar to corn starch if it doesn't get mixed well) These globs will settle to the bottom, and need to be removed. I believe this is why IH didn't put in a drain plug. Trust me, you want the water out of the fluid. I used a "hy-tran compliant fluid" that did not en-train and remove the water. The pump whined more than it should, and when I changed the fluid (for Hy-Tran) the fluid I took out was still the correct viscosity, but was the color of peanut butter, because of all the emulsified water. Once I had the correct fluid, it doesn't whine as much. The main thing to make sure you don't have a leak, is make the surface surgically clean, and make sure the bolts go back in the hole they came out of. Because depending on what is bolted to the outside, like just the drawbar, or the drrawbar and U bracket, a tiller hitch, etc will change the length of the bolt. The wrong bolt can pop the bolt hole in the transmission case and cause a leak......
kide
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 3,779
- displayname
- Gerry Ide
Wayne: I went back and looked at my pictures, do remember some unpleasant moments during reassembly, but don't remember a longer spring, maybe that was only on a QL, not the 1X9 series.. I guess I'll be able to refresh my memory soon, as the one thing I didn't do 8 years ago is fix the trunnion springs that I had shimmed with washers about 25 years ago (SMH), so I got some sheet metal to pull again.
Over the years, I've reviewed those pics and I'm always amazed that the only harassment I got was for the Fram filter (from the Boss, of course). It's kinda like your mom always warning you to wear clean underwear just in case you ended up in the ER.. Things I've never wanted Hydro or the Correct Police to see, I never really thought about until those pics were out there (like why the Scag weights on the rear end and WTH are they bolted to??)
Wayne - one thing I used to check on a hunting engine is whether it was too lean or too rich - I used to pull the choke part way out - if it got worse, it was already to rich, if it improved, you had an air leak or running too lean from a plugged jet, low float level or if the carb had HS needle, it needed adjustment. (ooooooor the Governor was FUBAR) The first feedback loop I ever dealt with was a governor on a rototiller when I was about 10 years old. It was because I'd really messed with the carb, grossly too rich. Sometimes you don't need an older mechanic(Dad) to show you the details - BUT IT HELPS!
Over the years, I've reviewed those pics and I'm always amazed that the only harassment I got was for the Fram filter (from the Boss, of course). It's kinda like your mom always warning you to wear clean underwear just in case you ended up in the ER.. Things I've never wanted Hydro or the Correct Police to see, I never really thought about until those pics were out there (like why the Scag weights on the rear end and WTH are they bolted to??)
Wayne - one thing I used to check on a hunting engine is whether it was too lean or too rich - I used to pull the choke part way out - if it got worse, it was already to rich, if it improved, you had an air leak or running too lean from a plugged jet, low float level or if the carb had HS needle, it needed adjustment. (ooooooor the Governor was FUBAR) The first feedback loop I ever dealt with was a governor on a rototiller when I was about 10 years old. It was because I'd really messed with the carb, grossly too rich. Sometimes you don't need an older mechanic(Dad) to show you the details - BUT IT HELPS!
Gerry-
I don't think the 1x8/9 series had the long spring which is located on the left side vs the right with the short spring. The model that gave me my first experience is a 1250. I actually made a thin hook tied to a string and used this to put tension on this spring when installing. Maybe others will chime in about this spring. Hydro briefly mentioned it in one of his recent posts so he apparently has some experience here.
And thanks for the input on the carb issue. I've had some last minute garden work that had to get done before rains set in so I haven't messed with Bull. I'm going to re-adjust the governor and if that doesn't work try another carb. The good news here is I got the garden work done so...
Marty (BTW)-
I am well aware of the tiny holes in the high speed needle. I always shoot carb cleaner in one end and watch for it to exit the other. I do this in both directions too. I then hold it up to the light for a final type inspection. I also removed the main jet and it was clean as well. The idle mixture needle doesn't have holes as I'm sure you're aware.
.
I don't think the 1x8/9 series had the long spring which is located on the left side vs the right with the short spring. The model that gave me my first experience is a 1250. I actually made a thin hook tied to a string and used this to put tension on this spring when installing. Maybe others will chime in about this spring. Hydro briefly mentioned it in one of his recent posts so he apparently has some experience here.
And thanks for the input on the carb issue. I've had some last minute garden work that had to get done before rains set in so I haven't messed with Bull. I'm going to re-adjust the governor and if that doesn't work try another carb. The good news here is I got the garden work done so...
Marty (BTW)-
I am well aware of the tiny holes in the high speed needle. I always shoot carb cleaner in one end and watch for it to exit the other. I do this in both directions too. I then hold it up to the light for a final type inspection. I also removed the main jet and it was clean as well. The idle mixture needle doesn't have holes as I'm sure you're aware.
.
glippert
Well-known member
Gerry - You made me chuckle twice this morning with your last post. 1st was your use of FUBAR - I don't think I've heard (or seen) anyone use that acronym since a got out of the Air Force 15 years ago! Second chuckle came at the end ("but it helps"). Thanks for getting my Thursday going with a smile.
On topic: Cub Cadet.
On topic: Cub Cadet.
kide
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 3,779
- displayname
- Gerry Ide
One thing I forgot about the carbs - the loose throttle shaft really only affects idle and just above idle, the amount of air getting in through the shaft becomes insignificant as engine speed increases.. Carb cleaner? Always get at least one shot in my face when cleaning those little holes in the pickup tube.
Gotta quit commenting on stuff at night when I'm tired, wake up the next morning and...
FUBAR - yup, I worked with at least 3 ex USAF types. One worked the DEW line, another was an aircraft radar tech, the third was and A&E (?) type working on stuff inside the cockpit of planes.. good background for working on Burroughs mainframe computers, I guess.
Gotta quit commenting on stuff at night when I'm tired, wake up the next morning and...
FUBAR - yup, I worked with at least 3 ex USAF types. One worked the DEW line, another was an aircraft radar tech, the third was and A&E (?) type working on stuff inside the cockpit of planes.. good background for working on Burroughs mainframe computers, I guess.
Wayne,
I had a 12hp low-hour, black replacement Kohler engine that had the 'hunt' issue at WOT. It about drove me crazy figuring it out. I could fill this page up telling everything I tried while engine was in tractor.
I did finally find the issue. Got pissed off, removed the engine, tore it down and found one of the fly-weights on the plastic governor gear was sticking. I installed a good metal governor gear assembly from an early 12hp engine and problem was solved!
I had a 12hp low-hour, black replacement Kohler engine that had the 'hunt' issue at WOT. It about drove me crazy figuring it out. I could fill this page up telling everything I tried while engine was in tractor.
I did finally find the issue. Got pissed off, removed the engine, tore it down and found one of the fly-weights on the plastic governor gear was sticking. I installed a good metal governor gear assembly from an early 12hp engine and problem was solved!
Kirk-
Thanks for the reply but boy am I hoping that's not the case here. This engine was rebuilt about 2 years ago and last year I finally swapped it out in Bull. The last thing I want to do is go back through this engine.
.
Thanks for the reply but boy am I hoping that's not the case here. This engine was rebuilt about 2 years ago and last year I finally swapped it out in Bull. The last thing I want to do is go back through this engine.
.
mgwin
Well-known member
Wayne,
I figured you already knew about the needles.
What did you expect from someone who was totally exhausted, carrying a splitting migraine, and half asleep?
Man, that was the worst migraine I have had since I took the flu shot last fall!
I figured you already knew about the needles.
What did you expect from someone who was totally exhausted, carrying a splitting migraine, and half asleep?
Man, that was the worst migraine I have had since I took the flu shot last fall!
In case anyone hasn't noticed today!
It's freakin snowing! LOL
It's freakin snowing! LOL
