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Archive through October 13, 2015
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hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Wayne - you certainly ask a good question "What is the reason for the Foam Washer (spacer)" at the top of the steering column. I'm certainly interested in any answers out there from the engineering type. In my view it just fills the space between the bottom of the steering wheel and the top of the IH plastic bearing (or aftermarket steal bearing). I guess the foam "keeps the dust out", but probably helps absorb moisture to hasten rusting of the splined column to the steering wheel splines. Course I guess IH had to fill the space with something.
hydroharry
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John E Mitchell - I'd recommend starting with just replacing the coil and see if that resolves the non-spark problem. I'll bet it does, and then you can decide on whether to replace the points. If you still have no spark you might want to replace your new condensor again. The current new ones seem to be developing a reputation for premature failure. If that still doesn't give you spark then your points have likely melted contacts and have to be replaced.
If you do decide to replace the points it's not that hard to do. Just be careful when you remove the points cover screws and don't let them drop down between the ISO-bar and frame. If you have one of those screw drivers with a clip on the end it will save you alot of trouble and pain. If not then I really hope you've got your mowing deck and sub-frame removed. As long as they are removed you can just about look up from underneath and see the screws laying there on the frame channel - if you can't see them you'll have to run your fingers along the frame until they fall out on the ground.
Installing the replacement points is pretty straight forward but you have to be extra careful not to drop any of the screws. Once you have the new ones in place I'd start with a gap of about .021 and then proceed to set the timing. Many guys use just a static method but I prefer dynamic live timing using a timing light. I still think it's the only true method to get it set dead nuts on the timing mark. Hopefully you site hole in the shroud is on the same side as the points. I know it is on the K321AQS 14hp but can't recall for certain on the K301AQS 12hp. If it's on the starter side you'll have to keep going back and forth between sides, adjusting the points, then reading the timing, etc. It will take you a little trial and error but will start great when you've got the timing dead nuts.
Ooh, and when you re-install the points cover you might want to switch to allen head screws to hold the cover on - which are much easier to keep hold of and not drop down on the frame channel.
If you do decide to replace the points it's not that hard to do. Just be careful when you remove the points cover screws and don't let them drop down between the ISO-bar and frame. If you have one of those screw drivers with a clip on the end it will save you alot of trouble and pain. If not then I really hope you've got your mowing deck and sub-frame removed. As long as they are removed you can just about look up from underneath and see the screws laying there on the frame channel - if you can't see them you'll have to run your fingers along the frame until they fall out on the ground.
Installing the replacement points is pretty straight forward but you have to be extra careful not to drop any of the screws. Once you have the new ones in place I'd start with a gap of about .021 and then proceed to set the timing. Many guys use just a static method but I prefer dynamic live timing using a timing light. I still think it's the only true method to get it set dead nuts on the timing mark. Hopefully you site hole in the shroud is on the same side as the points. I know it is on the K321AQS 14hp but can't recall for certain on the K301AQS 12hp. If it's on the starter side you'll have to keep going back and forth between sides, adjusting the points, then reading the timing, etc. It will take you a little trial and error but will start great when you've got the timing dead nuts.
Ooh, and when you re-install the points cover you might want to switch to allen head screws to hold the cover on - which are much easier to keep hold of and not drop down on the frame channel.
Hydroharry.
I think you are correct in starting with exchanging out the coil..I have found a proper coil at my local NAPA store in the form of a 76 Chevy coil. It has the internal 1.5 ohm resister and produces 20.000-volts. The good news is that it's about 1/4th the price of the current China made coil, that Kohler is sticking in a box, which in turn sells for 85 bucks before tax at my local Case/IH/Cub Cadet dealer. I plan on trying the new condenser with the new coil and seeing if it fires and runs. Brian Miller of A-1 Miller's Performance recommends setting the point gap at .035 with the 20K volt coil and says you can use the larger automotive type of condenser if you want to take full advantage of the new coil and inflict no damage to the points..
I had thought of the Allen head screws as an alternative to the stock screws used to hold the points plate and the cover, as well as the points adjustment screw. Those sizes would be 8-32 X 1/4" for the points adjustment screw. And 10-24 x 3/8" for the points mounting plate and the points cover. I hope to find those locally as well.
I was wondering about the timing on the K301a I saw the round cover on the right side of the cooling shroud when I was cleaning the grounds. I understand that there are 2 timing marks? The first for BTDC and the second for TDC. Do you know how many degrees the first mark is BTDC? At TDC the points should be at their widest open position, correct?
I used to be into air-cooled VWs back in the day (I'm 60 now) and I used to use a simple test light to set the points/dwell. Basically, you'd roll the engine over to the first mark on the crank pulley, loosen the hold down distributor clamp, pop the cap off, clamp the test light lead to the + side of the coil, turn the key on and ground the test light tip. If the timing was right, the test lamp would glow as soon as the points began to open. If no glow you'd turn the distributor base to get the points rub block squarely up on the apex of one of the 4 lobes of the distributor cam, loosen the points adjustment screw and gap the points to their normal gap setting, retighten the points hold down screw and turn the distributor base back beyond the apex of the cam on a flat and then rotate the base in the other direction to where the test lamp just lights up. At that point you retighten the dist base clamp and roll the crank to the right to TDC and then check the points gap again.. Basically the distributor's I ran on the Bugs were the Bosch 009 HP which are centrifugal/mechanical advance as opposed to the stock vacuum advance.
All the above leads to my questions..How does the timing advance in the K301? And where is the advance mechanism located? All I have been able to make out in a photo is of a points actuator rod rubbing up against the eccentric on the crankshaft. I guess I'm just old and dense.
Thanks for all the sage wisdom..I need it...LOL..
Regards
John
I think you are correct in starting with exchanging out the coil..I have found a proper coil at my local NAPA store in the form of a 76 Chevy coil. It has the internal 1.5 ohm resister and produces 20.000-volts. The good news is that it's about 1/4th the price of the current China made coil, that Kohler is sticking in a box, which in turn sells for 85 bucks before tax at my local Case/IH/Cub Cadet dealer. I plan on trying the new condenser with the new coil and seeing if it fires and runs. Brian Miller of A-1 Miller's Performance recommends setting the point gap at .035 with the 20K volt coil and says you can use the larger automotive type of condenser if you want to take full advantage of the new coil and inflict no damage to the points..
I had thought of the Allen head screws as an alternative to the stock screws used to hold the points plate and the cover, as well as the points adjustment screw. Those sizes would be 8-32 X 1/4" for the points adjustment screw. And 10-24 x 3/8" for the points mounting plate and the points cover. I hope to find those locally as well.
I was wondering about the timing on the K301a I saw the round cover on the right side of the cooling shroud when I was cleaning the grounds. I understand that there are 2 timing marks? The first for BTDC and the second for TDC. Do you know how many degrees the first mark is BTDC? At TDC the points should be at their widest open position, correct?
I used to be into air-cooled VWs back in the day (I'm 60 now) and I used to use a simple test light to set the points/dwell. Basically, you'd roll the engine over to the first mark on the crank pulley, loosen the hold down distributor clamp, pop the cap off, clamp the test light lead to the + side of the coil, turn the key on and ground the test light tip. If the timing was right, the test lamp would glow as soon as the points began to open. If no glow you'd turn the distributor base to get the points rub block squarely up on the apex of one of the 4 lobes of the distributor cam, loosen the points adjustment screw and gap the points to their normal gap setting, retighten the points hold down screw and turn the distributor base back beyond the apex of the cam on a flat and then rotate the base in the other direction to where the test lamp just lights up. At that point you retighten the dist base clamp and roll the crank to the right to TDC and then check the points gap again.. Basically the distributor's I ran on the Bugs were the Bosch 009 HP which are centrifugal/mechanical advance as opposed to the stock vacuum advance.
All the above leads to my questions..How does the timing advance in the K301? And where is the advance mechanism located? All I have been able to make out in a photo is of a points actuator rod rubbing up against the eccentric on the crankshaft. I guess I'm just old and dense.
Thanks for all the sage wisdom..I need it...LOL..
Regards
John
hydroharry
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John E Mitchell - your questions are really directed to the wrong guy. I'm really what's referred to most often as a shade tree mechanic. I can't address theory of operation questions, just symptoms to fix or replace parts.
I can say there are 2 timing marks on the flywheel. You'll have either an "S" or "SP" stamping for the BTDC setting, and a "T" stamping for the TDC mark. Since the BTDC and TDC marks are fairly close together I can only guess how many degrees the timing is actually set to when correct, probably in the range of 10-15 degrees at most.
Hopefully one of the more knowledgeable frequent contributors on here can really address your questions. I haven't seen Matt Gonitzke post for a while but he has provided instructions for static timing previously that were quite simple to understand. Here's a link to his own web page where he lists instructions.
http://www.mgonitzke.net/cubcadet.html
I can say there are 2 timing marks on the flywheel. You'll have either an "S" or "SP" stamping for the BTDC setting, and a "T" stamping for the TDC mark. Since the BTDC and TDC marks are fairly close together I can only guess how many degrees the timing is actually set to when correct, probably in the range of 10-15 degrees at most.
Hopefully one of the more knowledgeable frequent contributors on here can really address your questions. I haven't seen Matt Gonitzke post for a while but he has provided instructions for static timing previously that were quite simple to understand. Here's a link to his own web page where he lists instructions.
http://www.mgonitzke.net/cubcadet.html
John-Funny you should mention working on VW's. A lot of guys use a Bocsh 00-012 blue coil on Cubs which is a VW coil. It has a 3 ohm internal resistor.
Hydroharry..
Man don't sell yourself short..Your experiences are pretty deep and that knowledge doesn't come cheap or easy..I have paid more than my fair share of the "stupid tax" by not asking enough questions of the right people!
Hey I checked out the tutorial on Matt's web-site and it's pretty well spot on to what I was thinking. Except instead of a meter, a simple test light will work for me..Pulling the spark plug will make to impossible for the engine to fire and will aid in rotating it over by hand. Good stuff...Thanks for the link and all the good info.
Regards
John
Man don't sell yourself short..Your experiences are pretty deep and that knowledge doesn't come cheap or easy..I have paid more than my fair share of the "stupid tax" by not asking enough questions of the right people!
Hey I checked out the tutorial on Matt's web-site and it's pretty well spot on to what I was thinking. Except instead of a meter, a simple test light will work for me..Pulling the spark plug will make to impossible for the engine to fire and will aid in rotating it over by hand. Good stuff...Thanks for the link and all the good info.
Regards
John
kide
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I'd take Brian Miller's .035 point gap with a large grain of salt... You'd be advancing the timing quite a bit, which in a puller with engine mods might be OK, but on a stock Kohler, you'd probably getting nothing except starter kickback..... And, subbing the condenser is also iffy, since it should be close to the same capacitance value as the original, which if off can also affect timing..
Harry - Matt's been around lately, just really busy with airplanes and things
Harry - Matt's been around lately, just really busy with airplanes and things
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snicklas
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John,
I don't believe the timing advances on a Kohler K-Series engine. What you have seen with a pin on an eccentric is all there is.
The timing advance on an automotive application is due to the engine working over various RPM ranges.
A Kohler, is designed to run a constant speed. Normally at WOT (~3600) and not vary like in a car. From what I've seen, normally only automotive type applications have variable timing. Most stationary, or ag (Farm Tractor), construction or generators do not have any dynamic timing provisions, since most of these applications, the engine, when it is carrying a load, is held at a constant RPM.
I don't believe the timing advances on a Kohler K-Series engine. What you have seen with a pin on an eccentric is all there is.
The timing advance on an automotive application is due to the engine working over various RPM ranges.
A Kohler, is designed to run a constant speed. Normally at WOT (~3600) and not vary like in a car. From what I've seen, normally only automotive type applications have variable timing. Most stationary, or ag (Farm Tractor), construction or generators do not have any dynamic timing provisions, since most of these applications, the engine, when it is carrying a load, is held at a constant RPM.
Kide and Snicklas..
I agree the .035 seems to be a wide gap and without an advancing/retarding unit of some type, the timing would be way advanced. I'm not sure what the factory spec calls for. But I expect it to be around .020 or a tad wider.
Snicklas, you are correct, the pin travel is about it. I guess the timing marks on the crank probably serve a dual purpose as in giving a point of reference when installing the cam?
Thanks all who helped me out here..I'll know more Sunday when I get another chance to work on it for a while..
Danderson..Hey I ran those 12 Volt Blue coils on my Bugs. Big fat blue sparks!
Regards.
John
I agree the .035 seems to be a wide gap and without an advancing/retarding unit of some type, the timing would be way advanced. I'm not sure what the factory spec calls for. But I expect it to be around .020 or a tad wider.
Snicklas, you are correct, the pin travel is about it. I guess the timing marks on the crank probably serve a dual purpose as in giving a point of reference when installing the cam?
Thanks all who helped me out here..I'll know more Sunday when I get another chance to work on it for a while..
Danderson..Hey I ran those 12 Volt Blue coils on my Bugs. Big fat blue sparks!
Regards.
John
mgonitzke
Well-known member
John/Harry/etc.-
I'm not sure that coil is going to work without an external resistor. 1.5 ohms sounds like a reasonable resistance for the primary winding only, with no resistance in the circuit. It has been awhile since I checked one, but I thought a Kohler coil was something like 4 ohms or more. The only automotive coil I am aware of that has an internal resistor is for an old VW. Otherwise, I've been throwing my money away buying coils for years when I could have been using some of the piles of '60s and '70s Chevy ones my Dad has around...
I'm not sure that coil is going to work without an external resistor. 1.5 ohms sounds like a reasonable resistance for the primary winding only, with no resistance in the circuit. It has been awhile since I checked one, but I thought a Kohler coil was something like 4 ohms or more. The only automotive coil I am aware of that has an internal resistor is for an old VW. Otherwise, I've been throwing my money away buying coils for years when I could have been using some of the piles of '60s and '70s Chevy ones my Dad has around...
Wayne S. and Jeff B, I got the drive shaft out of my 149 and did not have to move the engine. The drive hub at the engine is wallowd out so took it to have it beefed up by a better welder than I am. Also, did you say I should freeze the new pin and heat the shaft up when installing the new pin? Thanks in advance for your support!!!
mgonitzke
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Thanks for the pics of the EZ-rakes. Mine is a little different. I ended up cutting my tack welds and moving the whole thing back 1", and now the muffler has more room. Let's see who can spot my other mistake. Hint: I didn't fix it because my yard is flat...
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mgonitzke
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