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Archive through March 03, 2013
- Thread starter tbdavis
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Frank,
"Snatching the peeble from your hand", I've heard some of the "car" people say that the Champions are junk. I need one for a 102 I picked up. For now I'm just running what I have on the work bench. The manuals calls for a Champion J-8 or equivalent on the 7-8 hps. and Champion H-10 or equivalent in the 10 hp. and up.
"Snatching the peeble from your hand", I've heard some of the "car" people say that the Champions are junk. I need one for a 102 I picked up. For now I'm just running what I have on the work bench. The manuals calls for a Champion J-8 or equivalent on the 7-8 hps. and Champion H-10 or equivalent in the 10 hp. and up.
Tom,
The Champion H-10C is fine. That plug is the same heat range is the H-10. I think the C means that the plug is part of Champion's Copper Plus series, or that it is a commercial plug; I am not sure which is correct.
There are those in here who believe that an Autolite 216 is an acceptable replacement as well.
The Champion H-10C is fine. That plug is the same heat range is the H-10. I think the C means that the plug is part of Champion's Copper Plus series, or that it is a commercial plug; I am not sure which is correct.
There are those in here who believe that an Autolite 216 is an acceptable replacement as well.
kide
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- Gerry Ide
Tom:
In our (OT) Cushman flathead singles which are notably finicky because of the magneto ignition, Autolites always out performed Champions of the same heat range, taking the fairground cruising much better without fouling....
In our (OT) Cushman flathead singles which are notably finicky because of the magneto ignition, Autolites always out performed Champions of the same heat range, taking the fairground cruising much better without fouling....
proessler
Well-known member
Marty, goto FAQ then Charlies FAQ #94 also (#33a&b) Click above ^^^^^^
on the
<font color="aa00aa">PURPLE LINE...</font>
<font color="aa00aa">PURPLE LINE...</font>
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
David G - on your V/R rubber mount failure, I'd scroung around and find an old failed V/R someplace, and drill out the rivets holding the rubber mount, and use it to fix your good V/R. You can use new rivets if you've got them sized correctly, or I've even used small screws with nuts. (It is a 2 point deduction on the 100 point scale, but hey, some components fail).
Bill R - no auto point deduction for a GD but probably should be. There are more scoring requirements on a Hydro so GD actually has an advantage to start with. As I noted before everyone starts with 110 points, but total max final score can only be 100. If your score card shows 101 it's a 100 point tractor. If your score card shows 99 and 1/2 it's a 100 point tractor. I should have mentioned all fractions round up.
Tom H - I never used anything but a Champion H10-C for about the last 15 years (well last time I bought one was 10 years ago). I don't know where the Champions are made any longer, but many now fall under NAFTA import. Let us know if you discover a MADE IN USA issue. (And as for the 100 point score, I believe the plug wire covers the marking and it won't be removed for scoring purposes)
Bill R - no auto point deduction for a GD but probably should be. There are more scoring requirements on a Hydro so GD actually has an advantage to start with. As I noted before everyone starts with 110 points, but total max final score can only be 100. If your score card shows 101 it's a 100 point tractor. If your score card shows 99 and 1/2 it's a 100 point tractor. I should have mentioned all fractions round up.
Tom H - I never used anything but a Champion H10-C for about the last 15 years (well last time I bought one was 10 years ago). I don't know where the Champions are made any longer, but many now fall under NAFTA import. Let us know if you discover a MADE IN USA issue. (And as for the 100 point score, I believe the plug wire covers the marking and it won't be removed for scoring purposes)
mhomrighausen
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- Marlin Homrighausen
The rivets used for the rubber mounts on voltage regulators are the same ones used for model toys. For new rubber a good industrial supply store sells different sizes of rubber stock very reasonable so that you can purchase very little and make a lot of replacement rubber mounting brackets. They may even have those toy rivets and the correct punch for them.
Well gang, I'm not having very good luck w/my very 1st NF. Did get her fired up and running good though w/just a good battery and a point dressing then the problem started.
The 73 came w/a restored deck that has all new belts, blades and spindles so no worry there, OK.
Took it for a little spin and stopped at my son'e house to show him. Ran the pto for just a bit everything seemed fine, blades turned and sounded good. disengaged the blade and went back to the shop and put it back on the table to change oil. Happened to notice a piece of clutch disk laying on the frame inside the grill and upon closer inspection a bolt and one of the clutch fingers a lock washer and a nut. Just great!! Took a walk down the same route I had just traveled and retrieved one more piece of disc, looks like there were 2 of em in there and I never did find the last piece of the 2nd one as well as 1 bolt and another finger. Found one mangled spring on the frame rail, the other one was still on the only bolt that was still in place.
So, do I have enough stuff here for Charlie to work with if I bless him with it or do I need to spring for a another clutch??
Dave S.
The 73 came w/a restored deck that has all new belts, blades and spindles so no worry there, OK.
Took it for a little spin and stopped at my son'e house to show him. Ran the pto for just a bit everything seemed fine, blades turned and sounded good. disengaged the blade and went back to the shop and put it back on the table to change oil. Happened to notice a piece of clutch disk laying on the frame inside the grill and upon closer inspection a bolt and one of the clutch fingers a lock washer and a nut. Just great!! Took a walk down the same route I had just traveled and retrieved one more piece of disc, looks like there were 2 of em in there and I never did find the last piece of the 2nd one as well as 1 bolt and another finger. Found one mangled spring on the frame rail, the other one was still on the only bolt that was still in place.
So, do I have enough stuff here for Charlie to work with if I bless him with it or do I need to spring for a another clutch??
Dave S.
30+ yrs ago there used to be a CHAMPION Spark Plug plant in the NW corner of the intersection of US Rt 34 & 61 in Burlington, IA. Not sure what's there now, been 25 yrs since I was through there last. I'm sure Champion had other plants too. They're now part of Federal-Mogul, and I think they're a better plug than they were for a while, probably as good as they ever were.
The last set of plugs in my Super H FARMALL I installed about 30 yrs ago, and haven't quite got my 250 hours on them yet. Last fall the SH got hard to start for a while. Thought plugs would be a good place to start, bought a new set of Champion D-18Y's to replace the old D-15Y's. They worked like a charm! With the new box of plugs still sitting on the pass. seat of the car the Super H starts right up now! Guess maybe starting the thing every 3-4 days to push snow helps! Dad put a set of D18Y's in the '51 M back in 2005 and it's maybe run/idled ten hours since then, it hasn't run since September/October and if I went out and started it I'd fire up on the second or third revolution.
The old K161/181, whatever it is, in the 70 was hard on plugs, burning stale 2-stroke pre-mix, idling a lot, and the carb inlet needle would stick if it sat for more than a week, fouling the plug when I finally did get gas in the carb from over-choking the engine. I tried Autolite, NGK, and Champions seemed to last the longest.
The thing I have against Autolite is they recommend the SAME plug as the replacement for the Champion D14, D15Y, D16, D18Y, D21, and D23. How can ONE plug properly replace SIX? Just because the thread & reach are the same doesn't make it the right plug for ALL applications! The D16 was the plug for most IH engines, also Allis, and a couple other brands. The D15Y was a cooler plug but the extended tip put the spark further into the combustion chamber for more heat. It must work because the Super H will idle for an hour at Zero degree temps and not foul a plug.
The J-8C and H-10C, like Brain W. said, is a Copper Plus plug, has a copper core on the center electrode for higher heat dissipation & better conductivity. When the "C" starts the plug number it means "Compact" like for use in chainsaws, string trimmers, & leaf blowers. There was an old "Commercial" line of plugs that had a "C" suffix but they only had two numbers and the "C". And Champion also makes a series of plugs for race engines that start with the "C" prefix.
There may be better plugs out there for some applications, but NOT for $2-3/plug.
The last set of plugs in my Super H FARMALL I installed about 30 yrs ago, and haven't quite got my 250 hours on them yet. Last fall the SH got hard to start for a while. Thought plugs would be a good place to start, bought a new set of Champion D-18Y's to replace the old D-15Y's. They worked like a charm! With the new box of plugs still sitting on the pass. seat of the car the Super H starts right up now! Guess maybe starting the thing every 3-4 days to push snow helps! Dad put a set of D18Y's in the '51 M back in 2005 and it's maybe run/idled ten hours since then, it hasn't run since September/October and if I went out and started it I'd fire up on the second or third revolution.
The old K161/181, whatever it is, in the 70 was hard on plugs, burning stale 2-stroke pre-mix, idling a lot, and the carb inlet needle would stick if it sat for more than a week, fouling the plug when I finally did get gas in the carb from over-choking the engine. I tried Autolite, NGK, and Champions seemed to last the longest.
The thing I have against Autolite is they recommend the SAME plug as the replacement for the Champion D14, D15Y, D16, D18Y, D21, and D23. How can ONE plug properly replace SIX? Just because the thread & reach are the same doesn't make it the right plug for ALL applications! The D16 was the plug for most IH engines, also Allis, and a couple other brands. The D15Y was a cooler plug but the extended tip put the spark further into the combustion chamber for more heat. It must work because the Super H will idle for an hour at Zero degree temps and not foul a plug.
The J-8C and H-10C, like Brain W. said, is a Copper Plus plug, has a copper core on the center electrode for higher heat dissipation & better conductivity. When the "C" starts the plug number it means "Compact" like for use in chainsaws, string trimmers, & leaf blowers. There was an old "Commercial" line of plugs that had a "C" suffix but they only had two numbers and the "C". And Champion also makes a series of plugs for race engines that start with the "C" prefix.
There may be better plugs out there for some applications, but NOT for $2-3/plug.
DAVE - Looks like you need one more of the long screws and a clutch finger. The broken friction disk was a common failure problem about 20-25 yrs ago. IH/MTD tried a different friction material and it was too hard & brittle and cracked. The later clutch kits I've used have lasted MUCH longer.
The long adjustment screws are supposed to have two nuts per screw, locked together to keep them from loosening, plus I add a drop of Blue Lock-Tight. They're just a 1/4"-28 UNF hex jam nut any good hardware store should have. The screw is a "Special", and you'll need the special Adjusting gage that comes with the replacement clutch kit with the triangular spring and friction disk.
You'll need the clutch kit, a finger, a longscrew, THREE more set screws, and a little spring or two to push the stamped steel pressure plate away from the cast plate/pulley.
You went to a LOT of extra work removing the hood & grill casting. On my small NF's, I remove the grill screen and have plenty of room to work on the PTO clutch.
The long adjustment screws are supposed to have two nuts per screw, locked together to keep them from loosening, plus I add a drop of Blue Lock-Tight. They're just a 1/4"-28 UNF hex jam nut any good hardware store should have. The screw is a "Special", and you'll need the special Adjusting gage that comes with the replacement clutch kit with the triangular spring and friction disk.
You'll need the clutch kit, a finger, a longscrew, THREE more set screws, and a little spring or two to push the stamped steel pressure plate away from the cast plate/pulley.
You went to a LOT of extra work removing the hood & grill casting. On my small NF's, I remove the grill screen and have plenty of room to work on the PTO clutch.
David-
You should resurface the pressure plates of that pto too. It makes things work so much better and provides a better grip. I just use a bench belt sander but a machine shop will do them for only a few bucks.
You should resurface the pressure plates of that pto too. It makes things work so much better and provides a better grip. I just use a bench belt sander but a machine shop will do them for only a few bucks.
hydroharry
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David S, Dennis and Wayne - I'm wondering what caused this PTO clutch to fail. I hadn't heard of the disk material problem Dennis mentioned. But even with the disk splitting it doesn't seem to me the clutch should come apart. I'm wondering if someone had it off and apart, and didn't re-install the double nuts on the Special screws, or maybe didn't install the 6 set screws. One of the Special screws coming apart seems most logical to me, allowing the clutch to twist when activated, causing the disk to eventually break. But even then all 6 set screws should still be in place. Also, I agree with Wayne about resurfacing the pressure plates. It certainly appears to be time for a good rebuild on this clutch. I'd also want to make sure that center button holding the triangular springs is still good. And I'd guess the fiber button opposite it is probably toast. And of course, the bearing on the crankshaft needs to be checked. Since it's all apart I'd spend the $20 to replace the bearing, along with the clutch rebuild kit and the other mentioned parts, and even 6 nice new set screws, so everything would be like new, and good for 20+ years. As for going the Charlie route, guess it all depends on how much all this would add up to. Charlie sure has nice ones all done up.
I think you guys are right on. I have several questions here so please bear with. I only found 1 nut and it was just a 7/16 regular nut and a couple regular lock washers is all. The bolts look special as they have a tapered head. The 3 set screw came out easily. There are supposed to be 6 ???
The PO claimed to have mowed with it but I sure can't see how. All I did was engage it once or twice and at a low RPM to boot. The pieces of clutch disk look to be brand new. Are there supposed to be 2 of them?? Maybe he did mow with it, had problems, and decided to rebuild the clutch and forgot to tighten everything back up before installing it back on the tractor.
I see a couple of 'em on E-bay but not sure if they are correct for the 73. There are several different ones...Correct?? How do you tell them apart?? Will they interchange between tractors??
The one I have on the 70 looks to be different (and new). Perhaps I will pull it off this AM to compare and check to be sure it has the right lock-nuts on it.
The button looks good. Is there another little button/spacer or something that belongs in line with it as well??
Oh, and one more ? here. The engine on this tractor is black. Is it supposed to be yellow? May be a replacement engine?? Sure runs sweet though. At least that is in my favor!
Damn, I sure wish I hadn't driven through the snow to get down to my boys place, if that other finger came off there, I won't find it till the snow melts and it's really coming down now w/8-12" forcast today & into tomorrow.
The PO claimed to have mowed with it but I sure can't see how. All I did was engage it once or twice and at a low RPM to boot. The pieces of clutch disk look to be brand new. Are there supposed to be 2 of them?? Maybe he did mow with it, had problems, and decided to rebuild the clutch and forgot to tighten everything back up before installing it back on the tractor.
I see a couple of 'em on E-bay but not sure if they are correct for the 73. There are several different ones...Correct?? How do you tell them apart?? Will they interchange between tractors??
The one I have on the 70 looks to be different (and new). Perhaps I will pull it off this AM to compare and check to be sure it has the right lock-nuts on it.
The button looks good. Is there another little button/spacer or something that belongs in line with it as well??
Oh, and one more ? here. The engine on this tractor is black. Is it supposed to be yellow? May be a replacement engine?? Sure runs sweet though. At least that is in my favor!
Damn, I sure wish I hadn't driven through the snow to get down to my boys place, if that other finger came off there, I won't find it till the snow melts and it's really coming down now w/8-12" forcast today & into tomorrow.
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