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Archive through December 12, 2012

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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hydroharry

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
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Harry Bursell
Joseph - I noticed your slogan "Chitwood Garage, home of the only 2 Cubs on the block". But you're in AR and the Chitwood Garage is up in MN where Brian W is located.

Hey, the tires are actually a good idea - and you don't have to bend so far to the ground to let go. Dang K341AQS is heavy and slippery.
Kraig mentioned a cradle mod - if it's not on your list I would recommend it, you've got the welder right there and only need a piece of flat stock. (I'm glad I don't see a torch - I always get scared someone is cutting these beautiful machines into pieces). Hope your son's surgery isn't to serious and he recovers well and quickly.
 
Thanks, he is getting tubes in his ears again so were hopeful it should be pretty straight forward. Yes I have a piece of flat stock and will be doing the cradle mod. And on the chitwood garage, I retained the nickname chitwood when I was racing go karts. My team always said when I was on the track it was just like the old chitwood stunt show. So ever since my garages/shops have been called chitwood garage, even though I'm here in southcentral wisconsin, and just bought a new house, I still have the only 3 cubs on the block.
 
Joseph - oops, mis-read your profile location. Is that Chitwood Garage a "right to work" location, and do you and your friends have the right to visit it's location (like your state capitol bldg) at anytime, until the St Police throw you out? (I couldn't believe the stuff on the news - and the Governor was trying to run it like a Police St). To stay on topic - I certainly hope they retain those IH archives and don't start messin'm up.
 
Denny, I don't think I went as far as that statement by J.S., I know my "little" tractor has it's limitations but I don't believe it's as bad as you constantly repeat.

Steve, the conversation was in regards to 36" throwers. I've got a 42 for a 169 that I'll get around to refurbin' someday. Who knows, maybe I'll become a convert and "cross-over" after drinkin' the kool-aid of higher horsepower! rofl..
 
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82 Series leterature quotes the following:

Peak torque at 2800 rpm:

1282 (12hp single) = 22 lbft
582 (16hp Briggs Twin) = 25.8 lbft
682/782 (KT17-I - boxer twin) = 26.4 lbft
982 (Onan 19.9 boxer twin) = 30.86 lbft

And.....in a real blast from the past, I had this saved as well.....

Harry Bursell - 02:21am Jul 26, 1998 EST (#934 of 935)
Tom @923 and others - I found a Kohler K series graph chart in a book by Paul Dempsey which shows:
K301(12hp) peak torque 22.25ft lbs @2200 rpm. Also max. brake hp is 12@35-3600rpm but torque is 17.5ft lbs. at this point.
Others interested are:
K241(10hp) peak torque 16.5ft lbs @2400rpm, and max. brake hp is 10@3600rpm torque is 14.5ft lbs.
K321(14hp) peak torque is 23.5ft lbs @2400rpm and max. brake hp is 14@3600rpm torque is 20.5ft lbs.
The BIG K341(16hp) peak torque is 28.25ft lbs. @2600rpm with max. brake hp 16@3500rpm torque is 23.5ft. lbs.
 
Mike,

I'm pretty sure Denny was joking!!!
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I am always amazed at the power those little 7 and 8 hp engines do have......and what they will do.......But PTO work is the one thing that will show the limitations of the smaller HP'ed units.

Harry,

My "Butt Dyno" says that the big bore singles 14hp and 16hp will hang a little longer on a hard drawbar load, with a little more cushion when you get to the edge. The boxer twins pull very hard on a drawbar load, but once you start to "get under them" they go FAST. That said, the extra power and torque the twins provide on the PTO at ~3000 plus RPM makes them more usefull for a larger variety of "big jobs" (like 42" throwers, 50" decks, 12" plows, 2-bottom plows
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etc.)...IMHO

The one exception here is the 982's Onan......it might as well be a DT466 for all of the power it has....considerably underrated at 19.9hp IMHO, and will eat a Kohler Mag 20 for breakfast!

When referring to "HARD into the governor" I meant the following (all torque curves and published numbers aside)...There is a point where the engine is well loaded and operating against the governor with the throttle plate almnost wide open and the RPM's over ~3000 (est.).......this is the point where you want to blow snow. Push it less (RPM's 3300-3600) and the thrower isn't loaded enough to work to it's best potential (they simply MUST be kept FULL to throw any distance)....Push it any harder and you lose the RPM's you NEED to throw the snow.

With a HYDRO it's easy to know where this point is by doing 2 things: 1) Watch the snow out of the chute and feed the thrower at a rate that throws it the farthest....WHILE 2) Using the "butt dyno" to confirm that you aren't flogging your Kohler TOO hard (but hard enough.....

When the snow is flying way out there, the whole tractor takes on a powerfull "shuddering" feeling, and sounds like a 1206 plowing....THEN it's just right!!!
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I really like those lights on the blower. How well do they light the ground compared to the headlights only? Does snow get through to them too much?
 
Kevin,

I took them off, didn't work as well as I though and snow did pile up on them. They need to be higher.

I may do some modifications to the set up this winter (if Santa is nice with my shop tool wish list) and patch over the light holes, add some drift cutter/light brackets.....similar to Art's but integrated into HD drift cutters......we'll see....
 
Steve, Mr Plow - geez, "Blast from the Past"!!!! You found something from the Forum "BGC" (Before the Great Crash). I sorta remember those discussions, but not sure in what context. I do know the last line comment "The BIG K341" was a twinkle in my eye since I had not yet run the engine from my 169 and only ever seen a couple 1650s.
Hey thanks for all the stuff on "Butt Dyno, HARD into the governor, and HYDRO" (why it's really the way to go). There's alot a stuff in books about how this all works, but your descriptions really tell it like it is from the tractor seat - REALLY Great Stuff!!! The only problem I see/had is keeping one hand on the speed control lever, one hand on the chute rotator rod, and my 3rd hand on the steering wheel. The 3rd one always got in the way but didn't matter much in snow anyway.
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Frank - well, if you're lurking there's not much to report on the A/C Delco Starter Generators. I didn't find any info on when they converted from the bushing to the bearing. I was hoping someone would pipe in at least on when they went from the "oiler" cast iron end piece to a sealed cast iron end piece, to an aluminum end piece (not the pulley end). I know that end piece with the bushing was a common replacement part. I broke at least one myself not being careful when removing the mount on a wide frame unit. If you un-bolted the belt tensioner bar, then loosened the 2 mounting bolts withOUT holding the S/G you risked it slipping and flopping down against the frame AND on a wide frame the end piece where the hole is for the mount, would hit the frame right where it curved and snapped that cast end plate mounting hole right off. I was careful with it after the 1st time I did that. I was really wondering tho which units got the little snap oil fill caps on the end plates. I believe my first 122 had that style but don't recall for certain. I guess A/C Delco decided it really wasn't necessary to oil that wick around the bearing area. I'm pretty certain the bearing was bronze which is pretty much self oiling, but not sure if it's enough on it's own for that type of heat and service, especially since it was really a sealed unit as well. I think there may be some more information in the book by Ken Updike, which I don't have, or maybe some of the others on here can fill us in with more details. So at this point we're stuck waiting for help from others.

The GREAT LENSE DEBATE
(also known as whether the 1x8/9 series always had a 75 at the end of the SAE number on the tail light lense).
Still waiting for help from you guys with tail lights on your 86, 108, 109, 128, 129, 149 and 169. We're looking for a lense with a name other than REFLECT-O-LITE or with that name but other than this numbering REFLECTO-O-LITE 378 SAE-P2-A-75, or maybe even the same numbering except for the 75 at the end. If you find something different please post the name and numbers on here. It does need to have that same rectangular appearance posted in the earlier pics, same appearance used on the Quiet Line series. We already know Bargman purchased REFLECT-O-LITE and changed the name on the lense but not the numbering.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
MIKE - Steve's correct, I had tongue firmly-in-cheek with that comment about somebody mowing foot high grass in 3rd gear with a 7 HP CC.

The little K161/181's try really hard at jobs like mowing tall grass, blowing snow, some people even run tillers with them. But as Tim Allen always says, more HP is always a good thing. When I dropped a rebuilt K241 in the 72 back in 1985 it was more for running the snow blower than running the 38" mower deck. That 25% HP increase was really noticable when blowing snow.

Having run a brand new '63 Original for 2 yrs, then a brand new 1965 #70 with both K161 & 181 engines for ten years, then getting my #72 with a 2-3 yr old replacement K181 in it in 1981 I know what they can and can't do. That's why I put a K241 in the 72 and ran it for 20 yrs in 1985 then installed a K321 7 yrs ago.

One thing the larger engines do is last many many more hours since they don't have to work NEARLY as hard all the time.

Like Steve is saying, there's a HUGE difference between simply running a CC engine @ 3600 RPM, and working one at FULL LOAD. Once the K161 is making ALL 11 #/ft of torque at it's 2000-2500 RPM range, the K241 is just starting to get with the program, it's still got 30% more torque, 14+#/ft, it can produce @ 3600 RPM, so the throttle blade in the carb wouldn't be close to wide open, probably just a little over half open.

I could go into a l-o-n-g discussion of the benefits of long stroke engines and torque rise, but just compare the torque charts of the K161 & K181 engines. The ONLY difference between the two is an additional 1/4" longer stroke on the K181, piston bores are the same. And the K241/301/321/341(not shown) are all an additional 1/8"(K241) to 1/2" longer stroke than the K181 plus increased bore diameter.

You spend enough hours on a tractor seat doing fieldwork like plowing, disking, chisel plowing etc you get a good feel for what HP and torque are all about.

I had a similar discussion on another forum about 2 yrs ago with somebody who said a 7-8 HP tractor was just as powerful running around the yard not doing any work as a 14-16 HP tractor which I thought was complete nonsense. Once you add a load the real advantage becomes obvious. I have a story about a pair of identicle 320 HP semi-tractors/trailers with similar loads, only one was 400-500# heavier and the lighter truck ran off and left me running across I-80 in IL. Coming home that night I was 400# lighter and I ran off and left the other truck. Both trucks grossed around 74,000-75,000# +/-. Just shows what a half a percent increase in weight/load can do.

Ohhhh STEVE - Thank's for posting those HP/torque charts!
 
Harry, I have that book and here is what it mentions
Up to serial number 305874 they used S/G #101996 after that number they switched to S/G # 1101691. The book does mention #1101691 & #1101692 has brass bushings on the cummutator end and ball bearings on the drive side cover plate.

Then it goes on to say they introduced the S/G # 1101692 during the 1x8,9 period as a service replacement part.

Other than that it only mentions that they went from yelow S/G's to black at the start of the 1X8,9

This is only what I read in this book and is not etched in stone
 
Harry
Great lens debate. I just opened a Cub Cadet taillight bag from a sponser IH-545616-R2 and found a Reflecto-lite 300 body SAE-PC-67 and a Bargman red lens 378 SAE-P2-A-75. Could the 67 be the year the Reflecto lite was certified? This would fit the 1X9 series then.
 
Denny
For the record, and just to keep you honest (
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.......
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

the K161 & K181 engines. The ONLY difference between the two is an additional 1/4" longer stroke on the K181, piston bores are the same.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
There were two bore sizes used on the K161. Spec number 2811162 and before had a 2-7/8" bore, and that included all the IH 7HP Cub Cadets. Spec numbers above that has a 2-15/16" bore, which is the same size as the K181.
I like the 7 and 8 hp models, they are good tractors, as long as they are used for what they were designed for, and with the equipment designed for the model. Mowing a 1/2 acre flat lawn once a week with a 14-16 hp tractor is probably overkill in my book, if that is all it's used for, and trying to run a 42" snowthrower in 14" of wet snow with a 7-8 hp is rather like spitting into the wind. You can do it, but the results are not all that good. Use the small blocks for what they were intended, and they are are good tractors.
 
Hi all,

Two questions.

First, I'm going to be using my QA-42A snowblower on my 149 for the first time this year. I have chains, but it still looks like the blower is taking a fair bit of weight off the rear.

Am I likely to need weight on the rear? If so, how much are you using? If anybody has a cheap solution for weight that's easily removable I'd be interested in seeing it.

Second, I can't get the tractor to stay at full throttle. I've set it up so full throttle is 3600 rpm, but the spring between the govenor and the throttle always seems to pull the throttle back to 3/4? has anyone else had this problem and come up with a solution.

As an aside. I just completely rebuilt the engine on the 149. Had the block rebored, and valve guides replaced (first engine I've ever torn down and rebuilt). Also installed the point saver from David Kirk. Rebuilt the steering at the same time. Steering feels like new, can't wait to put the "new" engine to the test.

Thanks to all the helpful advice posted on this forum. I've now rebuilt the mower, snowblower and most of the tractor using info from this forum.
 
James, I assume you meant QA42A as the QA42 will not fit onto a Wide Frame 149. You will want weight in addition to the chains. Some use RV anti freeze in the rear tires, preferably used with inner tubes. Search the forum for "tire bong" and you'll find info on how to go about this. You can make concrete wheel weights. Several people have posted in the past on how to make your own. You can make a rear mount concrete weight. Again several people have posted how to do this. A search of the forum for "rear weight" or "concrete weight" should give some hits.

Here's some links I found searching the forum:

CONCRETE WEIGHTS 1

Tim Kiste - Popcorn tin weights

SIMPLE HOMEBUILT REAR WEIGHTS
 
Jeff - thanks for providing that info from the book. I had thought it was a bronze bushing, and do wonder since many people confuse bronze with brass, and I'm not sure brass would hold up long when using it as a bearing in a what I think is fairly high speed rotation. Are there any metal experts on here that can help? Any others with knowledge of the A/C Delco S/Gs?

Jerry - yes it's been mentioned that maybe that base/mounting plate number ending '67 indicates the first year of certification. It does fit, but then it would seem there must be a corresponding lense ending with '67. Where or where may it be? Has anyone got a broken lense they threw in a box, or corner of their bench, bottom shelf, cubby hole? (Cubby hole?, now just what is that and did IH make one?).

Dennis - very interesting story. I would have never thought 400# being 1/2%, would make that much difference. I was hoping you'd comment on my story the other day when I mentioned I could throw snow going up my neighbors sloped driveway with my 1450/QA42A, but could hardly blow it going down, I'd mostly spin the 10.5 wide tires, even tho they had chains and 75# weights. It felt like the weight of the thrower hanging on the front just offset the tractor traction to much to work well, even tho the thrower was in the full down position.
 
I`am working at my 125 and have a no spark
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; I just went through the entire electrical system and instaling a new Volt regulator. I have the battery and field installed and the leaves me with two wires. One is ground and the other is s g ground. can I put those two wires together to the back of the VR ??

That will leave one post left on the VR that reads L !

James Schrage

did you adjust the governor rod to speck? did you adjust the engine to 3600 rpm`s using the throttle stop for max rpms ? If your throttle falls back it could be that you need to adjust the throttle cable friction under the dash.There is a nut there that can be adjusted to make the cable slide with more friction !
 

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