3225 Hydrostatic/hydraulic problems

[rswank]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and I am having problems with a 1998-99 cub cadet 3225. It starts and runs fine but there is nothing happening with anything hydraulic-steering, deck lift, transmission forward or reverse. It is a direct drive from the engine to the trans and everything seems to be turning as it should. I have spent most of the day researching on this forum and any other cub site I could find, and have not found anything on the 3225 hydraulics. Is there anyone that has experiances with this model?
I have checked the oil-it is full and clear. I disassembled the back end enough to get to the top of the trans and removed and checked the filter screen on the pump-it had some fine stuff but not alot. The unit was pretty dirty with caked on dirt but there didn't appear to be any real wet places that showed leak. All the linkage seems to move with the peddles and levers. I am hoping that maybe a couple of you real experianced guys might be able to point me in a direction. Thanks.

 

[kweaver]

Ron - Welcome to our little neck of the woods in the world.

First have you checked to see if the drive shaft is turning at the rear when running ?

I don't know the 3225 but my 2166 has a "neutral" lever at the rear so it can be rolled. If yours has such a critter maybe that's keeping the pump from building pressure.

 

[kweaver]

Naw - I don't see any disconnect at the rear.

It might be the coupler at the drive shaft is bad / broke or a sheared key in the pump input shaft.

 

[lbuttke]

I have a 3235 and had a simuar problem, and it turned out to be the secondary pump.
The gears snaped and without this pump working nothing works on the 3235.

I do not know if your 3225 has the same set up as my 3235 but if it does, my guess would be the secondary pump.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Lonny B. Is that the BDU21L with the rear auxiliary pump that you're talking about? That little pump that is tacked onto the back of the main system?

 

[rswank]

Thanks for the different inputs.
KENtuckyKEN, The driveshaft is turning at the rear end at the fan and coupler, I believe the power is getting to the rear OK.
Lonny Buttke, I would ask the same question as Marlin Homrighausen, is That little pump that is tacked onto the back of the main system?
Again thanks for your input, I have just gotten up and started for the day and after I have a couple cups of coffee, I think I'll go out and take that little pump off to see what I see.

 

[rswank]

UPDATE--I did take the little pump off, it seems that the "GEROTOR" broke into 6 different pieces. I have cleaned everything up and it appears to me that there was no or very minor damage to anything else--a few small scratches that are not very deep. It appears that besides a filter and fresh oil, it will only cost me about $135 for parts. Not all that bad.
I sure do thank you guys for your input, I'll update after I get parts ordered, recieved and installed. Thanks again.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Ron S. About those little scraches on the pump housing. Run your finger nail across them. Do you feel your fingernail catch as it hits the scratch mark or not? Now... Since I don't know of your mechanical skills I won't go any further until I know just how mechanically inclined you are. Trust me on this. I sure as God's green earth don't need fifteen other well intending people trying to help out on this. Don't get alarmed.... just trying to "get all the facts" here.

 

[lbuttke]

Marlin, Ron.

I myself have not worked on my 3235, the guys at the dealership do all the work on this cub.
When I had a simiular problem as described I was told that the secondary pump gears broke, causeing the problem.
Not sure which pump unit my 3235 has in it and not to worried as I don't work on it if it breaks.

 

[rswank]

Marlin, as far as the scratches, yes my nail does snag on them, in fact, I would speculate that they are about or close to a 1/32" deep. They are close to the center and a half circle between ports. I am going to try to post a few picture. Pictures didn't work, too big

 

[rswank]

I am retired after spending 35 years in the RV industry as supervisor, plant/production manager, even spent a few of my later years as a cad operator in engineering.
I would rate myself as a backyard tinkerer, I have rebuilt a Kohler 20HP in a John Deere. I have never had anyone else work on any of my cars or trucks other than alignments and tire mounting. I bring home lawn mowers that don't work and fix them, clean carbs, replace flywheel keys, points and plugs. I do some hobby blacksmithing and forging and build things as I need them. I am mechanically inclined--but I have not done much with hydrualics since I worked in a John Deere dealership when I was 16 years old. So I really do appreciate any guidance that you have to offer.

 

[kweaver]

Ron - If you're needing the pics re-sized email them to me.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Ron S. THANK YOU for the detailed information. The reason I asked is if you can feel your fingernail catch or snag on the scratches then you will need to stone those scratches out. An extremely fine sandpaper may or may not work. Very gentle stoning to remove the scratch without removing much other surface area is crucial otherwise those scratches will cause premature wear on your new components. If you are unsure of things then I'd have one of the dealer's service techs take a look at the scratches. Those machined surface areas are pretty critical for top performance. I hope this helps. BTW... Sandpaper tends to not be a good since you're generally hitting a small area. With a good stone you'll cover a bigger area. (Even though you don't have much room to work in.)

 

[kweaver]

Marlin - He sent me the pics and I sized them and sent them back.
From what I seen of the <u>gouges</u> he will be replacing it.
I'll let him post the pics.

 

[rswank]

KENtuckyKEN,
Thanks for doing whatever you did to the pictures. I'll try again to post a couple.
As far as the scratches go, if you think that they are bad enough to cause major issues, the replacement pump is not that much more than the repair parts, another $120 maybe. My thoughts were to use some fine sand paper on a flat surface and sand the whole face.

 

[mhomrighausen]

KENtuckyKEN. Thank You for resizing the pictures and yes, I agree. I'd spend the extra money and replace the whole unit.

Ron S. Those are on the too big to try to work out side. I'd recommend the whole new unit.

 

[mcambra]

Hey guys:

Thanks for this post, I took apart the Gerotor and mine was also broken in 5-6 pieces and replaced it and it worked for a while.

Following is the rest of my story - a suggestion - a question for everyone.

My Story -
Like I said above, I replaced my Gerotor assembly by following the instructions in the service manual. However, during my investigation of the transmission (following the service manual) I carefully removed the driveshaft and moved it to the side and was careful not to let the blue rubber bushing fall out. I inspected the pump adapter and made sure the transmission spun freely. After that, I put the New Gerotor Assembly on and reattached the driveshaft.

Here is my suggestion - I would and have since removed the driveshaft and remove all the dirt from the blue bushings so they function correctly. Unfortunately, I did not do that the first time and the first time I took a sharp turn, the packed-in dirt and crud prevented the driveshaft from flexing and the Aluminum Pump Adapter broke and I had to replace it. I think it was the original one and the new ones are made much better. I tested the tractor and everything worked great. I put on the mowing deck and that worked great also.

Anyway - here is my next problem and question. I was pulling my tractor out the garage and I lifted the hydraulic lift for the mowing deck and its highest position. As the pump was straining, I tried to push it back to it normal position, but something let go. It did NOT make any crazy load bang or anything. I just started driving away and I could not lower the deck, then I could barely steer, and eventually it would not go forward or backwards (again). M question is,

"Does anyone have an idea what it might be?"

Looking underneath, everything is spinning straight and does NOT have any strange/new noises. I am already disheartened that it broke down for the third time, but I will be crushed if the new Gerotor assembly or the built-in keyway in the New pump adapter is broken. I am hopeful that one of the relief/check valves opened up and the ball did not seat correctly or maybe the spring itself broke. I welcome any ideas, suggestions, or words of encouragement.

Thank you in advance for any information.

 

[mhomrighausen]

HI, Mark. It's been along day and right now I just can't quite decipher what exactly is going on however I'm thinking that something on the driveshaft isn't assembled quite right. Then something gets to binding. Also, I don't know why your pump should be straining unless you are holding the lift/lower lever too long. Hopefully Matt G. or Donald T. or someone else reads your post.

 

[mcambra]

The driveshaft is perfectly straight and spins true.

Last night I disassembled the Auxiliary Charge Pump and the Gerotor gear was cracked, which explains why it did not move. I was hoping that the bypass/check valves do not reseat itself, but for some odd reason the gerotor gear broke. I have a call into where I purchased it to see why it would break when a strain is placed on the transmission. I am guessing it is faulty or a bad batch of metal. Now I need to clean it all up again, drain and replace my 20 minute old fluid, etc. What a pain. Thanks for offering assistance. I invite more. Please reply.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Mark C. This is just a thought here. I wonder if those auxiliary charge pumps aren't built quite heavy enough for what they are required to do. You've more than likely read the posts below yours and the aux charge pump broke the same way.